# Can anybody verify this Caesar quote? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 22, 2002, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924 "2002-04-22T04:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ersatz\_Shmoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ersatz\_Shmoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ersatz_Shmoe)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/1 "2002-04-22T04:20:21Z")
Hey, I found this quote attributed to Caesar in an email, and being currently enrolled in Latin classes, I tried to find a source for it to no avail. If anyone can do so or debunk it entirely it would be appreciated: “Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.” Oh yeah, this is my first post to the SDMB. \ Hey everybody! \ ---
**Author:** ![LolaBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@LolaBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaBaby)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/2 "2002-04-22T08:16:47Z")
[www.google.com](http://www.google.com) is the BOMB. [http://medfordnj.com/weblog/archives/00000060.htm](http://medfordnj.com/weblog/archives/00000060.htm) [http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/hyper-lists/latin-l/02-03-01/0046.html](http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/hyper-lists/latin-l/02-03-01/0046.html) I just used the first few words of the quote… Most of the sites that showed up attribute it to Julius Caesar. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/3 "2002-04-22T08:25:56Z")
**LolaBaby** : I googled and saw those entries too. Unfortunately they don’t really answer the question 🙂 . The second, if you follow the thread, gets into some potential criticisms that cast some doubt, but it didn’t seem definitive. I’m a bit curious about the answer, myself. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![LolaBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@LolaBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaBaby)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/4 "2002-04-22T09:27:16Z")
That’s why I said “most.” 😃 I don’t think anyone can say “100% sure” unless they were there to hear him say it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/5 "2002-04-22T11:02:42Z")
Its authenticity seems dubious. I found several discussions about it on other sites, including these portions of these two: > [@](#): > > Certainly this looks pretty fishy. I’m not even sure if there is a one-word term for “patriotism” in Latin-- this is part of being _pius_, to be sure, but the rhetorical context here requires that it be immediately distinguished from other kinds of _pietas_. Then, too, I’m not a Caesar fan, in general, but this “quotation” doesn’t reasonably describe either Caesar’s foreign wars (which were undertaken for other motives) or his civil ones (in which “patriotism” played no role). And: in what context would he have said this? This warning assumes that Caesar has obtained sole power, but it could only be addressed to the inhabitants of a state in which there is some plurality of power. This condition never obtained between Caesar’s triumph and his assassination, and it is not clear that he anticipated its return after his death. > > Finally, brethren, it is badly written in a way somehow characteristic of web-scribbling. “Emboldens the blood”? “Need in seizing”? Blecch. > [@](#): > > The people that quote it seem to take it as Gospel that Julius Caesar did say this, but none has dug any deeper. Styllistically, I understood that Julius’s style was fairly straightforward, and that made him a good example for students of Latin. The style for this, allowing for the peculiarities of the translator, still seems terribly florid. The English style is not of the 20th century. If Julius did write this, the end suggests that it was late in his life. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/6 "2002-04-22T12:02:53Z")
I’m not having any luck with my online Latin resources on this one… perhaps a genuine classicist with a thorough knowledge of the Divine Julius’ writings will spot this thread. So far, I haven’t turned up anything that definitely confirms it, and I remain sceptical, not only on the textual grounds **Libertarian** quotes, but also because it doesn’t really seem to fit Caesar’s career. I can’t think of any incidents off the top of my head where he used scaremongering tactics to infringe on civil liberties. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, it’s been a while since my last Latin class, but still… I’m dubious. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/7 "2002-04-22T12:23:07Z")
This sounds like a job for [Scopes.com](http://Scopes.com)! Let’s see if they say anything about it in the coming days. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/8 "2002-04-22T12:33:26Z")
I’m sceptical too. Why would Caesar say this? He’s revealing a very cynical view of how he got to power, thereby handing a nice little weapon directly to his political opponents, confirming their worst fears. It’s not like Julius kept a secret diary or anything, found three centuries after his death. His writings are very well known, so if it can’t easily be sourced, it’s dubious. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/9 "2002-04-22T14:01:01Z")
To me, the quote sounds less like Caesar than like a latter-day liberal or libertarian, eager to “prove” that nationalism and patriotism are evils. Even IF Caesar were cycnical enough to use patriotic fervor as an excuse for seizing power for himself, I find it absurd to think he’d ever say so, in print. Look, even if you firmly believe that Dan Quayle was an idiot, or that Bill Clinton was a slimeball, you wouldn’t expect to read “I’m such a moron” in QUayle’s diary, and you’d never expect to read, “I can’t believe the American people were dumb enough to fall for my b.s.” in Clinton’s. Our enemies rarely do us the favor of publicly confirming our worst impressions of them. So, to the OP: if you want to assail George W. Bush for (supposedly) eroding our civil rights in the name of the war on terror, go ahead and do it directly. Don’t look to Caesar to bolster your case. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/10 "2002-04-22T14:02:25Z")
Why would the English have survived but not the original Latin? Unless someone can come up with the untranslated quote, I would not even considering it worth citing. ---
**Author:** ![JoshMoses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ebca7d/32.png) [@JoshMoses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoshMoses)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/11 "2002-04-22T14:08:56Z")
Every place I see cites Caeser, however it sounds to me like one of the many anti-tyranny plays that made the rounds in England following the Revolutions in the 17th and 18th centuries. I’m sure Bernard Bailyn would recognize it. Josh ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anybody-verify-this-caesar-quote/104924/12 "2002-04-22T14:09:15Z")
I guessed Caesar’s _Commentaries on the Gallic and Civil Wars_ as a source. Here’s a translation of [Books I to III](http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=CaeComm.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=2&division=div1) dealing with the civil war. Not looking good. Augustus anyone?