Can somebody please tell me what relevance the usefulness or otherwise of hemp has on the argument as to whether Marijuana should be legalised; Hemp is already legal to grow.
Would I not be making a similar case if I argued for the legalisation of heroin because poppy seeds are nice on bread rolls?
I claim, as do many others, that hemp IS easy to grow and needs minimum nutrients to succeed. I refer (!) to the report available from Washington State University. Secondly, hemp grows under MANY conditions and is found growing in every climate that supports plant life! I’ve never come across any research that supports your third and fourth point either. On your fifth point, we agree fully!
When my wife worked in the wood product industry, she showed me information sent from a company that uses hemp to make floor joists, which need to support heavy weight. During a visit to a local fair, I came upon a booth from the Rella Good Cheese Co., from Santa Rosa CA, that gave out samples of cheese made from hemp! I tried it…not bad! We also had Hemp burgers, very tasty! And no cholesterol! People liked it and they sold a bunch. I also believe hemp seeds can be used to make an ethenol fuel to run machinery, as well as lubricate it. So in summary, here we have a plant that can provide food, shelter, fuel, and medicine. These are the things that are essential to support human life! All available in one crop!
Well then, why is it illeagle? who would object to such a crop? Perhaps the major corporations that that are supplying those goods to us now??? I maintain that this has become an economic issue.
**What has any of that to do with the legalisation of cannabis as a recreational drug? **
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Nothing…but the question doesn’t specify just the recreational drug issue. And, the Gov’t is trying to severly limit the production of hemp and hemp products. That’s why the large majority of hemp is imported, mainly from Hungry. The company that produced the food we ate has had to stop making it due to new regulations that are in place. And of course, there’s the medicinal issue. In this thread we’ve seen many personal accounts of how marijuana helped sick people cope with illness. What is the arguement against that?
As for the recreational issue, I would imagine that economics plays at least a part again. There are major league companies that sell us our recreational drugs now! Why should they want to share
And I refer to numerous Canadian farming magazines that stae that hemp rewquies fertilzier, I also pointout that European hemp farsm use heavy amounts of fertilizer, at least one hemp magazine notes that the crop is potentially
No, there are several types of soils that hemp does not grow well in. There is no such thing as a miracle plant that grows everywhere. Even the most prolific of weeds will have places and conditions it cannot grow in.
My third point stands. I’ve had hemp advocates lie with numbers to make it seem as if Hemp would never drain soild. When the math was done they had only a slight improvement over cotton.
My fourth point also stands. When you take a way the propaganda, Hemp is just another crop. There’s crops that would make better fiberboard, better biomass sources, better fabric and better paper.
Were they pure hemp? Or Hemp-Fir combinations?
Its called biomass, and there’s better sources. Even those aren’t gonna be replace Oil anytime soon.
No, we a crop, that with a lot of finaggling by assorted enthusiasts, can prouce these things. The effort is very heavy compared to other crops and had someone put as much effort into less political crop they could find plenty of uses as well. I refer you to G.W. Carver and his peanuts.
Its purely an enforcement issue at this stage. I have no objection to legalization, but there’s gonna be a lot of dissapointment and resentment, and backlash against hemp advocates if they keep promising all this stuff about hemp when its just not gonna be that commercially viable.
I maintaint that hemp isn’t that great even in places where it is legal. Why isn’t Germany (the leader in paper technology) using Hemp paper? The stuff is legal there. WHy do Phillipine papermakers grumble about using the stuff? Why is hemp fabric such a specialty market in the US but bordering on nonexistant elsewhere? Why isn’t hempboard in heavy use in the deforested eurpopean continent?
The answer is simple: Hemp ain’t that damn good!. If it weren’t for its forbidden novelty value, it would be ignored altogether.
And I refer to numerous Canadian farming magazines that stae that hemp rewquies fertilzier, I also pointout that European hemp farsm use heavy amounts of fertilizer, at least one hemp magazine notes that the crop is potentially
I’m getting information from University research, while you’re quoting from magazine articles!!! Of course hemp,like all plants, need fertilizer! The nutrient requirement for hemp is minimal. (source: Washigton State University)
No, there are several types of soils that hemp does not grow well in. There is no such thing as a miracle plant that grows everywhere. Even the most prolific of weeds will have places and conditions it cannot grow in.
Yes, there is soil it won't grow in.....I said it grows in any CLIMATE. The soil might need to be amended, as with most other crops.
My third point stands. I’ve had hemp advocates lie with numbers to make it seem as if Hemp would never drain soild. When the math was done they had only a slight improvement over cotton.
I’m not familiar with this research, but by your own admission it’s an improvement over cotton, albeit slightly. If the advocates that you spoke with gave you embellished information, that doesn’t mean it’s ALL a lie!
No, we a crop, that with a lot of finaggling by assorted enthusiasts, can prouce these things. The effort is very heavy compared to other crops and had someone put as much effort into less political crop they could find plenty of uses as well. I refer you to G.W. Carver and his peanuts.
Can you name a crop that supplies all the things that hemp can be used for? i’m sure there must be one, but I just can’t think of it, can you? If the effort is too heavy for YOU as compared with other crops, than don’t grow it! There are many people that are willing to put the effort into it, they’ll manage without you. And if you don’t care for the products it produces…don’t use them! There are many,many people who would like the opportunity to find out for themselves. Our free enterprise system will decide if it’s successful.
And I refer to numerous Canadian farming magazines that stae that hemp rewquies fertilzier, I also pointout that European hemp farsm use heavy amounts of fertilizer, at least one hemp magazine notes that the crop is potentially
With all due respect, I’m getting information from University research, while you’re quoting from magazine articles!!! Of course hemp,like all plants, need fertilizer! The nutrient requirement for hemp is minimal. (source: Washigton State University)
No, there are several types of soils that hemp does not grow well in. There is no such thing as a miracle plant that grows everywhere. Even the most prolific of weeds will have places and conditions it cannot grow in.
Yes, there is soil it won't grow in.....I said it grows in any CLIMATE. The soil might need to be amended, as with most other crops.
My third point stands. I’ve had hemp advocates lie with numbers to make it seem as if Hemp would never drain soild. When the math was done they had only a slight improvement over cotton.
I’m not familiar with this research, but by your own admission it’s an improvement over cotton, albeit slightly. If the advocates that you spoke with gave you embellished information, that doesn’t mean it’s ALL a lie!
No, we a crop, that with a lot of finaggling by assorted enthusiasts, can prouce these things. The effort is very heavy compared to other crops and had someone put as much effort into less political crop they could find plenty of uses as well. I refer you to G.W. Carver and his peanuts.
Can you name a crop that supplies all the things that hemp can be used for? I’m sure there must be one, but I just can’t think of it, can you? If the effort is too heavy for YOU as compared with other crops, than don’t grow it! There are many people that are willing to put the effort into it, they’ll manage without you. And if you don’t care for the products it produces…don’t use them! There are many,many people who would like the opportunity to find out for themselves. Our free enterprise system will decide if it’s successful.
and because it is not that easy to grow it should be outlawed? **
and if this claim is exaggerated hemp growing should be outlawed? **
therefore it should be illegal to grow hemp?**
so we’d better prohibit hemp growing?**
you’d probably piss some pot-growers off if their sensi was ruined by hemp pollen… so we’d better make it illegal to grow hemp so we can keep the pot farmers happy.
OK NOW… I think your point was that all this hoohah, rah rah advocating hemp as the answer to all the world’s problems is overblown. Maybe so… but so what? Some folks are overly-excitable. For some that means hyping hemp-growing, for others it means asserting with a straight face that Britney Spears can sing. Again, so what?
As for using legal medicinal marijuana as a “smokescreen” to get pot legalized for recreational use, a few comments:
If some people DO support medicinal cannabis surreptitiously as a means of legalizing rec. use, does this mean we should ignore the benefits of cannabis for AIDS, MS, cancer, glaucoma sufferers?
I believe that the average recreational pot smoker–rather than advancing medical use SOLELY to lead to overall legalization–is merely encouraged by the fact that the very same plant that get’s them off ALSO can be used to ease sick people’s pain AND to make the paper that some Bibles are printed on.
Can you really blame potheads, who have IMO been unfairly denied access to their benign intoxicant of choice, for trying to use the medicinal marijauna issue to gain some leverage for recreational legalization?
And if yes, you CAN blame them, then why? Is it in your mind an issue of morals? Are you thinking along the lines of: “Well, I could be all for legalizing this natural substance that makes a lot of folks happy without really harming anyone too terribly much EXCEPT for the fact that SOME of you potheads are not being totally candid in your reasons for supporting medicinal cannabis use.”
the ghost of Anslinger lives on in muddled-thinking minds.
With all due respwct, I am getting info from farming magazines, The Financial TImes, The INternational Hemp Association, Canadian Farming reports, and more.
All of them say that to grow commercial hemp you must use fertilizer, pesticides and herbices. Minimal is not the case.
Except that cotton is a more useful and specialized crop. The claim was that in three years of cottong growth will “deplete a field”, wheras they proudly maintain that Hemp returns 60% of its nutrients to the soil (if you turn over the roots, not an easy task). Of course simple math of .6^3 gets you 20% of the nutients left in the soil from first groth, meaning the same answer: Fertilizer.
Other lies pervade the Hemp nonsense: Claims that the Declaration of Independce was printed on hemp paper are laughable.
Excess lies like this will create a backlash, either now or after a future legalization.
Peanuts are one right off the bat. A versatility that goes way past hemp. No good for textiles, but makes up for it in a variety of other fields.
They are creating a false image of hemp’s abiliites. That mythmaking is going to cost them down the line.
Free enterprise exists outside the US, so why is the miracle image of hemp that its advocates claim will solve so many ills of the earth not taking place in continental Europe? Why do hemp growing countries not reap these wondrous benefits since th crop is legal there? The answer is simple, the hemp stuff made here is a novelty at best, notable only because it comes from a plant with a familiar leaf.
What is being sold is a pack of lies and half-truths, often beveled with a good load of conspiracy nonsense. This is all neatly packaged by the advocates as environmental agronomy.
“Cecil can appreciate that proponents of the weed might want to sneak partial decriminalization in through the back door. On the one hand I think, hey, whatever works. But on the other hand I think, this is just the kind of hypocrisy we 60s types used to try so hard to avoid.”
I agree with this sentiment, and add the fact that Cecil is going easy on the sheer lie-laden claims that hemp advocates have made.
Peanuts are one right off the bat. A versatility that goes way past hemp. No good for textiles, but makes up for it in a variety of other fields.
Sir: Since peanuts are no good for textiles, that answer is unacceptable! Can you live in a house of peanuts? Is peanuts considered as medicine by anyone? Please try to understand the scope of my question. One plant…that can be used for food, shelter, fuel, and medicine. Admitedly, there are crops that are better for each of those uses. But let’s imagine that some catastrophy will wipe out all plant life except one. Is there a plant that would supply all of these needs? I’m not saying that there definatley isn’t one…but what is it? Anyone have an answer?
You’re getting info from the Financial Times, and Canadian farming reports? I think that’s part of the problem! As I have been stating all along…It’s in the economic interest of big business to maintain the status quo. Magazines carry adds from corporate sponsers, and as such are beholding to these sponsers point of view. WSU has no such ties. If anything, being located in the heart of lumber country would give them incentive to deny the facts that they have published! I invite you and everyone else to this page on their website http://www.olywa.net/when/sect06.html#HEMP:
to inspect the research and report back on what,where, and most importantly why you believe they have lied.
Does the name “Geroge Washington Carver” mean anything to you? You might want to look up a few things he invented using peanuts. Its on the order of 300+ items or so.
Yes, even more directly than alleged “hemp medicines”.
As has been evidenced in countries where hemp is legal, not well enough to be the miracles claimed by hemp advocates.
Given such a circumstance, hemp isn’t going to do a damn. hemp must be combined with other plant material, or synthetic material to be useful for all these categories. Only in clothing and rope does it stand alone. If we’re eft with hemp, we’re pretty much as screwed as if we were left with any one other crop.
Oh, lay off the conspiracy horseshit. These were not articles deriding hemp as a source, they were realistic articles telling people about the crops in a realistic manner. The Ontario Farmer was giving straight information about the crop for farmers moving into hemp crops, and the F.T. was based on financial prospecting. They don’t give a damn about timber insterests.
Furthermore, what about the International Hemp Association?
Hayo M.G. van der Werf, of the International Hemp Association in the
Netherlands reports that “Hemp has moderate fertilizer requirements.” He’s watering things down too.
Hemp world magazine stated (in one of their more sober articles) that hemp is vulnerable to 100 diseases and 300 pests. Do you think these are just going to go away with increased hemp production?
Ignoring your glorification of WSU for a moment. (and wondering why this is on a .net site instead of a .edu site.)
From the limited information I can only say that you have misrepresented them a bit. There is no supporting data for their claim that hemp requires little fertilizer. Its all about structure.
Here is the part of the report I would like you to comment on:
Hemp requires less moisture to grow than kenaf.
Hemp’s fiber-bundles are stronger and tougher than those of kenaf, generally comparable to varieties of flax, and most other known fiber species.
Hemp is generally pest resistant, drought resistant, and light frost resistant.
With proper leaf removal, hemp has low net nutrient requirements and requires minimal cultivation.
Hemp provides greater fiber yields in areas generally north of the 40th latitude than most other fiber crops, generally surpassing flax by 10%.
Then you quote the International Hemp Association in the Netherlands , but say he’s watering it down too. That’s your opinion, not neccessarily a fact.
Furthermore you have only been successful in evading my question. Peanuts are great, peanuts are wonderful, a ballgame wouldn’t be the same without them, everyone knows of G.W.Carver. But there is no way to use peanuts for shelter unless you mix them with cement! Peanuts have no narcartic effect that I’m aware of. There may be medicines that peanut oil is a part of, but I’m unaware of them. I’ll check into that at a later date.
Meanwhile, what do you make of the top paragraph that I coppied from the WSU site?
True. Moisture requirements are an issue, but not a deciding issue for a crop.
True. But Hemp is much harder to harvest than kenaf and flax.
As we’ve seen, this last comment is simply not true, and is not supported by any data in the UWA report.
This is true, but not enough for Canadian farmers to run joyously into the realm of this alleged “miracle crop”.
Furthermore, according to several papermaking sources, Kenap is a much more realistic choice for making paper products ( a top listing by hemp advocates). A catagory in which hemp has serious deficiencies not mentioned by its advocates.
And you invoke "status quo’ conspriacies to denigrate my sources and ignore the fact that your only source has no supporting data for minimal fertilization.
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Furthermore you have only been successful in evading my question. Peanuts are great, peanuts are wonderful, a ballgame wouldn’t be the same without them, everyone knows of G.W.Carver. But there is no way to use peanuts for shelter unless you mix them with cement!
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Oh? And Hemp magically forms fiberbaord and particlebaord without any extra materials whatsoever? Under the the criteria you gave (no other crops, which is very silly) hemp will also fail completely. Hemp does not stand alone except as a textile or rope product. It must be used with other products for decent strength.
Several medicines have been developed that use peanuts and peanut byproducts.
I’ve said this a dozen times now: I AM NOT CLAIMING HEMP IS USELESS! Hemp has uses, and should be legalized. But its advocates have chosen to over-promote and outright lie about Hemp’s properties, which will result in an overall backlash against the environmental movement.
Now, care to explain why Hemp is a useful crop in continental europe, when its advocatres proclaim it to be a savior of mankind?
First off, by your postings, I had no idea that you were for legalization! But as for your arguement against the use of hemp, all you did was go through the facts, declaring which are true and which are not, according to you. You say “this is true BUT…” Other facts on the same page, you dismiss as not true. You claim the magazine articles you read were presented in a fair and unbiased way…that would be your OPINION. You say hemp advocates overstate their case. OPINION. (one which I sometimes agree!) But as I’m sure you are aware of, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, AND THEY ALL STINK!
All that you have offered in the way of factual evidence are from vague references in magazine articles. I never used the word conspiracy, as you have claimed I did twice thus far (so much for your reading comprehensive skills). It’s just common sense. Universities are in business to educate and research, while magazines are in business to sell advertising. The companies that advertise in these mags have an interest in thier product remaining popular with consumers of said product, no? If a magazine starts printing articles that promote a different product, it only stands to reason that the company will STOP buying these adds, and that’s what supports a magazine! It is for that reason I cannot accept your sources. Even the Journal of the American Medical Association, which does not accept advertising, has an agenda they must continue to support in order to insure the huge salaries of doctors. Magazines are just opinions wraped in a fancy cover!
If in my zeal I gave the impression I thought it was the savior of mankind, let me apologize. But I do find it mildly amusing that we can’t think of another plant that can be used for all the things that hemp can be used for! (Yeah, I know, there are better plants to use for each requirement, but nothing that does the work of all these things!) Hey, maybe it IS the savior of mankind!?!
Please try to understand the scope of my question. One plant…that can be used for food, shelter, fuel, and medicine.
As has been evidenced in countries where hemp is legal, not well enough to be the miracles claimed by hemp advocates.
BTW…I take this respnse to be a qualified, YES, hemp is the only plant that can fill all these needs! I didn’t ask if it was a “miracle” plant! that was your qualification after the, albeit silent, YES.