# Can anyone confirm or refute this comment about Arabic culture? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 16, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664 "2010-03-16T16:11:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/41 "2010-03-17T07:31:52Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Except for the article’s title: “A Patel Motel Cartel?” The question mark would seem all important and \*\*Green Bean \*\*didn’t replicate it. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/42 "2010-03-17T13:25:04Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > You people are taking this all way too seriously. It’s not nearly as alien as it sounds. It’s just an aspect of manners taken slightly further than is common in the West. > > If you had a guest and he looked at your apple tree full of apples and pointedly said: “Gee those apples look great, I could sure imagine myself eating one of those” it would be pretty insensitive and rude to not offer him one, right? But then if the guest said “Gee those rare potted orchids look great, I could sure imagine myself having one of those in my garden” and you didn’t have any to spare and you ignored the implied request or made some comment about how you would love to give him one but you’d been saving them for your aunt and grandmother, and he pushed the request and flat out demanded he get one of your rare orchids, he’d be a jerk, right? So we have exactly the same principle of manners that Arabs do, we just draw a line in a particular (very vague) place as to what is good manners and what is not. > > Many non-Western cultures just take the same area of manners and draw the line some varying degree further along, is all. Like anywhere, there are people who are obnoxious enough to impose on other people’s good manners (ie jerks) and it sounds to me like the cafe guy was just a jerk. I think there’s a much brighter and more sensible line in the Western version of what you’re describing though. An apple is cheap (free in your example), easily replaceable, and fungible. Articles of clothing, furniture, beloved toys, are at most one of those things. If someone asked me for a rare orchid, or a lamp, or the shirt I was wearing, or one of my kids toys, I’d consider them rude & a jerk **even if they didn’t press the request**. > [@Anaamika](#): > > I still remember some of my treasured toys/possessions when I was a child/teen being given away. I remember a stuffed moose I had, that my daddy gave me. Well, some little kid came over and wanted it, and didn’t my mother just hand it over! Was I too old for stuffed toys? Maybe. Would I have given it away graciously if only asked? Probably, or would have distracted him with something else - it takes three seconds to distract a kid. But that was my daddy’s gift to me! > > That was not the only thing, either. I had to hide my tape recorder once, a treasured gift also, because I knew my mother was thinking about giving it to someone. This is something I used every day to record or listen to music! > > Lots of little things disappeared like that. None of this compares, however, to my friend who came home to find her BEDROOM FURNITURE being given away because a cousin had expressed interest. **Anaamika** , did you ever prime any of your friends to come over and compliment your mother on her lovely dining room set, or television, or something else of hers? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/43 "2010-03-17T14:11:20Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > **Anaamika** , did you ever prime any of your friends to come over and compliment your mother on her lovely dining room set, or television, or something else of hers? What a great idea! 🙂 Actually, I always wanted her beautiful china cabinet. With some work and a few greased palms that thing could be in MY house now. And you know, now that I think about it, I do have some of this trait in me. Someone the other day was admiring these bracelets I was wearing. Costume jewelry, but very pretty. Well, I was wearing three and I own six, so I slipped one off and gave it to her. Why not? I had some to spare. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/44 "2010-03-17T14:45:47Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > If someone asked me for a rare orchid, or a lamp, or the shirt I was wearing, or one of my kids toys, I’d consider them rude & a jerk **even if they didn’t press the request**. But this belief is entirely cultural. In Southern Cameroon, it is absolutely okay to ask for things you have no expectation of receiving. I can’t tell you how many people stopped me on the street to ask for my shoes. When I said “Uh, then what would I wear” they acknowledge my point and move on. This was totally normal and not a problem, the attitude being “Well, it was worth a shot.” ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/45 "2010-03-17T14:51:59Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But this belief is entirely cultural. In Southern Cameroon, it is absolutely okay to ask for things you have no expectation of receiving. I can’t tell you how many people stopped me on the street to ask for my shoes. When I said “Uh, then what would I wear” they acknowledge my point and move on. This was totally normal and not a problem, the attitude being “Well, it was worth a shot.” Understood - I was responding to **Princhester’s** view that it’s just an extension of generally accepted manners in the West, and that whether or not someone is a jerk depends on how much they push the request. I was saying that even making such a request in Western culture is automatically rude. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/46 "2010-03-17T16:58:44Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > The question mark would seem all important and \*\*Green Bean \*\*didn’t replicate it. Not only that, I left it off on purpose! Because I truly believe that a Gujarati mafia is victimizing innocent travelers in the southeastern United States. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/47 "2010-03-17T17:30:32Z")
Don’t know what weird ass part of Punjab Annamika comes from. I have lived in Northern Punjab region (Potohar specifically Islamabad) for most of my life and I have never never never heard or would have even thought about giving something to someone when the say “they like it”, and nobody I know would either. And I have spent a lot of time all over the Middle East, never encountered that either. Seems like a quirk of some people has been presumed to be standard behaviour, something westerners are prone to do about other.s ;). ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/48 "2010-03-18T03:16:56Z")
While I think the phrase “weird-ass” might be a little harsh, I’ve been asking my family and nobody has heard of the practice **Anaamika** describes. We’re South Indian (Kannadiga and Tamil) so I was wondering if this was one of those Northie-Southie divides, but **AK84** ’s post indicates there’s something else going on here. FWIW, some of my relatives thought it was a Persian custom, and some thought it would have to be a pro-forma offer (as mentioned already in this thread) and that you wouldn’t be obligated to fulfill it if someone were crazy/rude/unaware as to take you up on it. One of my family members thought what **Anaamika** describes might be a form of status-giving: that is, the giver is asserting status or wealth by treating valuable objects as trivial to give away. I certainly know a lot of people, Indians included, who constantly try to assert status in all sorts of ways, so that wouldn’t surprise me. What do you think, **Anaamika**? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/49 "2010-03-18T03:17:15Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I think there’s a much brighter and more sensible line in the Western version of what you’re describing though. An apple is cheap (free in your example), easily replaceable, and fungible. Articles of clothing, furniture, beloved toys, are at most one of those things. If someone asked me for a rare orchid, or a lamp, or the shirt I was wearing, or one of my kids toys, I’d consider them rude & a jerk **even if they didn’t press the request**. Your criticism is based on the idea that in the cultures in question it is acceptable to (a) flat out ask for a thing of value (b) with any real expectation it would be given. But if you read the responses of the thread from those who have experience of the practice, this is incorrect. Doing so would be regarded as rude. So your point is without foundation. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/50 "2010-03-18T04:55:39Z")
I think the key is to praise people for their hospitality, rather than for their things. In upper-class Britain it is rude to comment on how nice the furniture is, or even the food. It implies that you did not expect them to have things as nice as they were. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/51 "2010-03-18T05:02:20Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I think the key is to praise people for their hospitality, rather than for their things. In upper-class Britain it is rude to comment on how nice the furniture is, or even the food. It implies that you did not expect them to have things as nice as they were. How do you compliment the hospitality without complimenting the food or their things? I am not denying what you are saying (since I haven’t been to Britain and my family is middle class at best), I am just trying to picture what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/52 "2010-03-18T05:40:42Z")
Heh, I do have a Muslim friend who tends to be SUPER-Nice about most things in life- if we were in the middle of a rainstorm and I asked for his raincoat, he’s the sort of person who would take it off and give it to you to wear so that you didn’t get wet. I just always chalked it up to being super-nice, and when I visited his family, they’re all like that. Interesting to see that it’s prevalent in other places and not just a his family sorta thing. I just figured my family is okay as are most people, and he’s just one of the few people that grew up being super-nice and polite about these sorts of things- though if I tried to abuse it, I’m sure he’d call me out on it- though… I can’t definitively say. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/53 "2010-03-18T06:34:15Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > … One of my family members thought what **Anaamika** describes might be a form of status-giving: that is, the giver is asserting status or wealth by treating valuable objects as trivial to give away. … Which, to my ear, sounds very much like the tradition of the [potlatch](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch) among some First Nations peoples of west coast North America ([among others](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch#See_also)). > [@](#): > > … The status of any given family is raised not by who has the most resources, but by who distributes the most resources. The hosts demonstrate their wealth and prominence through giving away goods. … CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/54 "2010-03-18T15:29:15Z")
> [@julius blaze](#): > > How do you compliment the hospitality without complimenting the food or their things? I am not denying what you are saying (since I haven’t been to Britain and my family is middle class at best), I am just trying to picture what you mean. “Lady Astor, how kind of you to have us over for dinner. We had a wonderful time and enjoyed hearing Lord Astor’s views on how the wogs have ruined cricket.” ETA: of course I am the son a of a lower class Brit who left England 60 years ago, and I have learned most of my facts about British customs from reading Peter Whimsey novels. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/55 "2010-03-18T16:06:01Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > In upper-class Britain it is rude to comment on how nice the furniture is, or even the food. It implies that you did not expect them to have things as nice as they were. And (rather oddly from our modern American point of view) it was traditionally perceived as insulting because it implied that the hosts were responsible for **choosing** the furniture or the food. See, the flattering assumption would have been that the furniture was family heirlooms and the food was provided by old family retainers, meaning that the current hosts wouldn’t have much real choice about it. The people unfortunate enough to have furniture and menus that actually reflect their own individual preferences are the _nouveau riche_. (AKA “the sort of people who buy their silver”.) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/56 "2010-03-18T17:08:28Z")
I need to make friends with some Arab photographers. I could really use some new lenses. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/57 "2010-03-18T18:22:33Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > **“Lady Astor, how kind of you to have us over for dinner. We had a wonderful time and enjoyed hearing Lord Astor’s views on how the wogs have ruined cricket.”** > > ETA: of course I am the son a of a lower class Brit who left England 60 years ago, and I have learned most of my facts about British customs from reading Peter Whimsey novels. bolding mine Funniest damn thing I’ve read all week 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664/58 "2010-03-18T18:24:13Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > I don’t have a factual answer for that, but maybe something like, “that lamp suits your home’s decor perfectly.” Or, “I love that scarf you’re wearing. It suits your complexion,” with either an implied or stated “but not mine” at the end. I think we all need to start using “the hammer is my penis” as a shortcut for all this. For example, “I love that scarf you’re wearing… It suits your complexion… But not mine… I do not want you to give me your scarf.” could be shortened to “I love your scarf, the hammer is my penis” and “My, you have a lovely lamp… it goes with your home’s decor perfectly… but not mine… I would have no use for it… and I have no way to get it home… please do not offer to carry it home for me… please keep your lamp… I do not want you to give it to me.” is similarly unembiggened into “You have a lovely lamp, the hammer is my penis.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-confirm-or-refute-this-comment-about-arabic-culture/532664.md?page=2)