# Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417 "2013-09-09T16:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/181 "2013-09-10T21:12:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’m sure that’s working well for you, but frankly it’s not my style. But go with what works for you man. Keep on keeping on and all that jazz. Watch this unfold. Then six months down the road come back and re-read the thread. See who was right. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/182 "2013-09-10T21:13:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Watch this unfold. Then six months down the road come back and re-read the thread. See who was right. Fine by me. Feel free to revive the thread in 6 months and see where we are. If Syria has used chemical weapons in that time and the US hasn’t responded you win the internetz. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/183 "2013-09-10T21:14:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I guess it was a whoosh. No whoosh here. Peggy is all carried away with the fantasy that some Obama supporters will paint this as his Cuban Missile Crisis. She fucking wishes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/184 "2013-09-10T21:28:57Z")
I remember it. Living as a dependent on a SAC base. They told us they had a plane waiting, fly us off to safety in half an hour. You would be amazed at how many of us brats knew full well that if the shit hit the fan, the poor quality of Soviet ICBMs was just about our only hope. (Never found out if there even _was_ such a plane. Frankly, I doubt it…) There is much to criticise in JFK, his luke-warm commitment to civil rights and blundering in SE Asia being at the top of the list. But for his performance in his finest hour, may the Goddess hold him close to Her bountiful bosom now and forever, amen. No, Peggy, m’dear, this was not JFK in the missile crisis. I don’t know if Obama would measure up to such a crisis, and I never, ever want to find out. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/185 "2013-09-10T21:31:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, anyway, Obama is a blood-thirsty militarist, except when he’s a Milquetoast wussie quailing in the face of our enemies. The Two Joes, Stalin and Chamberlain. Pretty much, i don’t understand the point of this debate when Terr has already made up his mind anything Obama does is not only wrong but anyone defending him is an apologist. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/186 "2013-09-10T21:55:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I’d like to hear the plan of “securing chemical weapons” without actual physical presence. Do you think drones can “secure” them? > You think that he wants to “pull it off”. He doesn’t. He wants to neutralize Obama. Making Obama look like a fool is a bonus. Check and check. The US and Russia have months and months of communications and assurances on the locations, sites, movement and control of major stockpiles of CW. The UN weapons inspectors will be the physical presence on the ground probably escorted by Syrian military personnel. The plan is the UN inspectors start inventorying the weapons and then make plans to move the third largest stockpile of chemical weapons to a secure location where they can be systematically destroyed. I’m not sure how Putin’s offering to give Obama what he wanted as the most prized objective of taking military action actually neutralizes Obama. Perhaps you can explain that theory in a bit more detail. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/187 "2013-09-10T22:28:19Z")
> [@XT](#): > > To me it’s a win/win (for the US) regardless of how this plays out. If Assad honors the agreement then chemical weapons don’t get used. The threat of our use of military strikes are what brought him to this agreement, yet we held back to give peace a chance. If he doesn’t, he’s probably going to piss off the Russians who will look bad, and Obama will get his authorization for strikes anyway, while The World™ will have to shut the fuck up about it, since Obama has obviously bent over backwards to give peace a chance and Assad fucked it up. Either way it’s a win for the US (and Obama IMHO). It’s a win for Putin and Russia only if Assad honors the agreement. As for Assad, he’s still got his civil war to deal with, and even if he manages to win it he’s probably fucked. If he loses, well, we’ll have to burn that bridge when we get to it I guess, but that will be just another day in the Middle East. You are 100% correct and I think Assad will have the middle option between winning and losing which will be what I believe Putin is driving at the need for a transitional government which keeps the Russian Navy harbored in Tartus. The Assad’s go live in Russia somewhere and Putin keeps his Navy in the region. Getting rid of CW is huge for Putin too. This is a win/win for Putin and Obama but Putin’s the one now who has to deliver. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/188 "2013-09-10T22:52:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Oh yeah it’s brilliant all right. Let’s have the chemical weapons controlled and secured by Assad’s troops, and pretend that that’s an improvement on when they were controlled and secured by Assad’s troops. Hilarious. You’re totally forgetting that the situation has changed. If somebody’s hitting you with a bat, and someone else comes along and says “give me the bat or I’ll shoot you”, then that is clearly better than ignoring the situation in the first place. What you cannot force yourself to consider, and that is the problem with a lot of Obama haters, is that the threat of force now changes the equation and Syria now actually has an incentive to secure and turn over the CWs. Why don’t you take a moment to think about this: Obama’s not trusting Syria any more than he can throw them, the strikes are still on the table, only this time, Syria’s offering to give up the weapons (compared to not giving up anything before) if we don’t strike them. Compare that to just going ahead and bombing Syria, this gives us the opportunity to avoid all that > [@Terr](#): > > Here, maybe Noonan will explain it better to you: [http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2013/09/10/making-sense-of-syria/](http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2013/09/10/making-sense-of-syria/) By the way, I didn’t read that. That’s #1 LOL, Peggy Noonan? She has about as much credibility as taint sweat > [@John\_Mace](#): > > You first. No you! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/189 "2013-09-10T23:03:27Z")
Esteemed smart ass Jon Stewart on Miss Peggy: [http://aattp.org/jon-stewart-slams-journalist-hack-peggy-noonan-over-obama-criticism-video/](http://aattp.org/jon-stewart-slams-journalist-hack-peggy-noonan-over-obama-criticism-video/) There’s an ad. Sorry. Brief. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/190 "2013-09-10T23:07:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I remember it. Living as a dependent on a SAC base. They told us they had a plane waiting, fly us off to safety in half an hour. You would be amazed at how many of us brats knew full well that if the shit hit the fan, the poor quality of Soviet ICBMs was just about our only hope. (Never found out if there even _was_ such a plane. Frankly, I doubt it…) > > There is much to criticise in JFK, his luke-warm commitment to civil rights and blundering in SE Asia being at the top of the list. But for his performance in his finest hour, may the Goddess hold him close to Her bountiful bosom now and forever, amen. > > No, Peggy, m’dear, this was not JFK in the missile crisis. I don’t know if Obama would measure up to such a crisis, and I never, ever want to find out. Not to give PN any credit here (not a fan), but I did hear an analysis by Michael Beschloss last night (well respected presidential historian), and he was comparing the two situations. He was discussing recordings (or transcripts) of cabinet meetings. The SecDef (MacNamara) was telling Kennedy that missiles in Cuba didn’t change things significantly and Kennedy responded that he had earlier said it would be a game changer so he had to stick to his guns no matter what. Anyway, if Beschloss can make the comparison, I wouldn’t fault anyone else for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/191 "2013-09-10T23:25:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Here, maybe Noonan will explain it better to you: [http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2013/09/10/making-sense-of-syria/](http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2013/09/10/making-sense-of-syria/) Peggy Noonan is bitter and broken in spirit in that piece. She rambles on and on. If it were a record played backwards we’d hear Obama is No Good over and over. She writes…Obama…must know… > [@](#): > > Bashar Assad isn’t going to give up all his hidden weapons in wartime, in the middle of a conflict so bitter and severe that his forces this morning reportedly bombed parts of Damascus, the city in which he lives. In such conditions his weapons could not be fully accounted for, packed up, transported or relinquished, even if he wanted to. According to the Russians the CWs have been moved and centralized to sites well out of reach of rebel territory. Does Noonan think every square kilometer of Syria is raging with civil War? The UN sent a team in to investigate the August gassing of 1400. Putin has probably figured out that Assad can survive or get to a Russian friendly transitional government without chemical weapons. So CW have no value to Putin and are not worth the posibilty that Assad’s conventional weapons could be degraded such that what opposition group that prevails will not embrace a Russian presence on Syrian soil. Noonan can’t hear anything but GW Bush whispering in her right wing ear that evil doers won’t let the UN inspectors in. Noonan has no objectivity left if she ever had any at all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/192 "2013-09-10T23:30:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not to give PN any credit here (not a fan), but I did hear an analysis by Michael Beschloss last night (well respected presidential historian), and he was comparing the two situations. He was discussing recordings (or transcripts) of cabinet meetings. The SecDef (MacNamara) was telling Kennedy that missiles in Cuba didn’t change things significantly and Kennedy responded that he had earlier said it would be a game changer so he had to stick to his guns no matter what. > > Anyway, if Beschloss can make the comparison, I wouldn’t fault anyone else for doing so. [Found the cite.](http://www.npr.org/2013/09/10/220932961/analyzing-how-presidents-wage-war?1122,1149) I went a little too far with the “no matter what”, but essentially correct. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/193 "2013-09-11T00:49:19Z")
Not a PN fan either, but I did like something in her blog post from a few days ago and I appreciate her noting it, [Why America is Saying ‘No’](http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html) > [@](#): > > A point on how quickly public opinion has jelled. There is something going on here, a new distance between Washington and America that the Syria debate has forced into focus. The Syria debate isn’t, really, a struggle between libertarians and neoconservatives, or left and right, or Democrats and Republicans. That’s not its shape. It looks more like a fight between the country and Washington, between the broad American public and Washington’s central governing assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/194 "2013-09-12T01:17:44Z")
Of Americans who watched Obama directly there are 61% who approve of his policy on Syria. That is quite good. When our CinC gets photos of Syrian CWs being loaded on to ships on their way to destruction, where must that number go from there. There will be much right wing dismay at such a signifucant improvement in our long term national security. > [@](#): > > According to the poll, 61% said they support the president’s position on Syria, with 37% saying they oppose his response to the Syrian government’s alleged use of chemical weapons against its own citizens. > > [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/10/cnn-instant-poll-6-in-10-speech-watchers-back-obama-on-syria/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/10/cnn-instant-poll-6-in-10-speech-watchers-back-obama-on-syria/) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/195 "2013-09-12T01:38:18Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Of Americans who watched Obama directly there are 61% who approve of his policy on Syria. That is quite good. When our CinC gets photos of Syrian CWs being loaded on to ships on their way to destruction, where must that number go from there. Bookmarked. To point and laugh in a while when no such thing happens. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/196 "2013-09-12T02:20:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > To point and laugh in a while when no such thing happens. You are probably right that this can’t go smoothly. But GOP partisans had better get in their laughing this year, because the favorable publicity when the Affordable Care Act kicks in next year will wipe off those smiles. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Of Americans who watched Obama directly there are 61% who approve of his policy on Syria. And maybe even higher for people like myself who read the speech text. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/197 "2013-09-12T02:59:47Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Of Americans who watched Obama directly there are 61% who approve of his policy on Syria. Of the 61% who watched Obama’s speech, 100% were already in favor of his policy. Next? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/198 "2013-09-12T05:38:20Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Obama’s win on this has already arrived with Putin’s offer to engage in a process where he and Syria have necessarily admitted that the CW arsenal exists under Syrian control. They are not saying let inspectors in to verify that nothing is there. You call what Putin is doing a win for Obama? He’s been spanking Obama on a daily basis over this. There is no domestic support for this. There is no international support for this. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I don’t see how Russia can veto or prolong any reasonable UNSC resolution that begin a UN process to sieze control of Syria’s CW arsenal. That made me laugh out loud. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/199 "2013-09-12T10:09:50Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Of the 61% who watched Obama’s speech, 100% were already in favor of his policy. > > Next? How do you make such a claim? And part of his policy is to test the diplomatic route. Just before the Iraq invasion polls showed 60% favored Bush letting inspections continue and getting UN Sanction. The mood in the public is eerily the same favoring diplomacy over military action. And Bush was attacking Iraq by playing his popular 9/11 card. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/200 "2013-09-12T12:46:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You call what Putin is doing a win for Obama? He’s been spanking Obama on a daily basis over this. There is no domestic support for this. There is no international support for this. You can say Putin spanked Obama but you are at a loss to explain how the rightwinger’s have justified coming up with just another hit Obama narrative that contradicts reality, historical reality and common sense. Putin caved early despite Obama’s lone cowboy threat to degrade Assad militarily. Putin cannot assume that Obama as CinC does not believe that Obama has the authority to order strikes and that Congress and US public opinion against them will deter Obama from carrying through with his threat. Putin has troubles at home too. If Russia loses its only strategic military asset/port in the Mediteranean he’s not getting a spanking he’d be getting an ass whipping like a Russian President has never seen. So Putin caved because Putin has military assets to lose. Obama may lose politically in the short run but has time to recover if the strikes occur and all the antiwar crowd’s doomsday scenarios do not occur. Netanyahu wants Obama to strike Syria - the right wingers aren’t mentioning him much like the usually do. So Putin has to be worried if Netanyahu and want Assad hit. Tell me if Russia or the US has more to lose in tangible military assets if Assad’s regime falls. If your answer is Russia then tell me how in the hell Putin spanked Obama by offering to give Obama exactly what Obama wants to achieve with military action. Military action that is still on the table and I doubt it comes off the table unless Syris is verified disarmed. Does anyone think the Joint Chiefs will not carry out strikes if the Commander in Chief orders them? Why would Putin think such a rediculous thing? He saw Clinton do Kosovo not that long ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=11)