# Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417 "2013-09-09T16:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/261 "2013-09-13T14:16:08Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Why is failing to convince 60% of the public bungling? > > Why is failing to convince partisan politicians who oppose anything Obama wants or tries to do bungling? > > The Republican leadership in the House is convinced. > > Failing to convince is failing to convince. The bungling thing is all right wing partisan hacks having a field day against a presidency they’ve wanted to destroy since day one. To start with it’s not in the constitution to be the world’s policeman. In fact, it takes the approval of Congress to wage war. He bungled it by drawing a line in the sand he didn’t have the legal or moral authority to make. He fucked it up and then tried to drag Congress in to back up the mistake. That’s bungle number 2. There is no clear mission here with a specified outcome and there is no clear group of people to support. We would be helping another Bin Laden like group if we intervene. Your crusade to walk through Obama’s crap and tell us how good it smells is interesting but not logical. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/262 "2013-09-13T14:43:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > To start with it’s not in the constitution to be the world’s policeman. In fact, it takes the approval of Congress to wage war. You have begun your argument with a sentiment that is more an ideal than having any basis in reality or fact. I know of no precedent where a US President ordered a brand new military action and the Joint Chiefs refused to execute the command because it has not been passed by both houses of Congress. And military action has been taken without authorization from Congress numerous times in history. Obama has precedent on his side, the rest of your case has no foundation and crumbles under the weight of actual history. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/263 "2013-09-13T14:46:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sanctions were there before, for a long time. “Threats” are not punishment. So - any punishment? > What I “want” is immaterial. He looks like a bumbling idiot. Which is really what he is. Too bad it reflects badly on the United States, though. And your solution is … ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/264 "2013-09-13T14:59:46Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > And your solution is … My solution to having a President that is a bumbling idiot? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/265 "2013-09-13T15:12:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Lots of hot air. No substance. Can you personally guarantee that to Mr Putin. You somehow know that Obama will never order a strike against Syrian military targets? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/266 "2013-09-13T16:07:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > My solution to having a President that is a bumbling idiot? I think what friend **Buck** is getting at is some idea of what you might have done differently. You tell us most firmly that you would not have done all the stupid things Obama has done, but are a bit light on telling us the brilliantly intelligent things President **Terr** would have done. Things which, apparently, are neither needless military aggression, while simultaneously not looking weak and vacillating. Since everything that Obama has done fails to meet your exacting standards, perhaps you could outline what you would have done, that we can make fair-minded comparison? What if he had done nothing at all, did not respond in any way? Would you be down here lauding his brilliant plan of nothing? I am willing to entertain the notion that “nothing” might have been exactly the right thing. Is that what you have to offer? We wait with bated breath to be astonished. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/267 "2013-09-13T16:10:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I think what friend **Buck** is getting at is some idea of what you might have done differently. 1. Do not blab about “red lines”. 2. Do not say “Assad must go” when what replaces him may be worse. 3. Sit back and watch Al Queda battle Hizbullah/Iran. If it looks like one side may be winning, send a little help to the other side. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/268 "2013-09-13T16:13:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 1. Do not blab about “red lines”. > 2. Do not say “Assad must go” when what replaces him may be worse. > 3. Sit back and watch Al Queda battle Hizbullah/Iran. If it looks like one side may be winning, send a little help to the other side. And just ignore the use of chemical weapons, right? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/269 "2013-09-13T16:15:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > My solution to having a President that is a bumbling idiot? We got Obama and got rid of the bumbling idiot, so we’re all good now! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/270 "2013-09-13T16:22:06Z")
> [@XT](#): > > And just ignore the use of chemical weapons, right? Oh, I would definitely “strongly condemn” it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/271 "2013-09-13T16:25:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Oh, I would definitely “strongly condemn” it. Ah, I see. And to you, this is all the smart plan, ehe? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/272 "2013-09-13T16:26:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 1. Do not blab about “red lines”. > 2. Do not say “Assad must go” when what replaces him may be worse. > 3. Sit back and watch Al Queda battle Hizbullah/Iran. If it looks like one side may be winning, send a little help to the other side. Numbers one and two are, once again, telling us what you wouldn’t have done. Hence, they are irrelevant to my question, and simply put the hamsters into needless effort. So, really, the only pillar of your agenda is to “sit back and watch”. Effectively, do nothing. So, that’s what you got? You got “nothing”? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/273 "2013-09-13T16:27:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Numbers one and two are, once again, telling us what you wouldn’t have done. Hence, they are irrelevant to my question, and simply put the hamsters into needless effort. > > So, really, the only pillar of your agenda is to “sit back and watch”. Effectively, do nothing. So, that’s what you got? You got “nothing”? I told you I would help, a bit, the side that was losing. Until it started winning - then I’d help the other side. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/274 "2013-09-13T16:27:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Numbers one and two are, once again, telling us what you wouldn’t have done. Hence, they are irrelevant to my question, and simply put the hamsters into needless effort. > > So, really, the only pillar of your agenda is to “sit back and watch”. Effectively, do nothing. So, that’s what you got? You got “nothing”? And, more importantly, had Obama done nothing, you and the Republicans would have been singing his praises, right? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/275 "2013-09-13T16:29:01Z")
> [@XT](#): > > And, more importantly, had Obama done nothing, you and the Republicans would have been singing his praises, right? :dubious: If he had done nothing without the blabber about “red lines” - I would certainly be quite content with his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/276 "2013-09-13T16:30:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Numbers one and two are, once again, telling us what you wouldn’t have done. Hence, they are irrelevant to my question, and simply put the hamsters into needless effort. Ah but number 3 is conditioned on numbers 1 and 2. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/277 "2013-09-13T16:32:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > And, more importantly, had Obama done nothing, you and the Republicans would have been singing his praises, right? :dubious: I don’t think anyone but the most committed partisans are singing Obama’s praises on how he’s handled Syria. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/278 "2013-09-13T16:35:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Ah but number 3 is conditioned on numbers 1 and 2. An agenda appealing in it’s simplicity and stunning in it’s cynicism. All you are saying is give war a chance? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/279 "2013-09-13T16:37:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > An agenda appealing in it’s simplicity and stunning in it’s cynicism. All you are saying is give war a chance? When the war is between Al Queda and Hizbullah/Iran? Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/280 "2013-09-13T16:37:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think anyone but the most committed partisans are singing Obama’s praises on how he’s handled Syria. I didn’t say they were. What I said was I’m pretty sure that had Obama done nothing (or basically anything else), the Republicans would still be blasting him exactly the same. They probably would have said he should have drawn a red line in the sand over chemical weapons and pounded Syria for using the things against civilians. Basically, no matter what he did, he was going to get hammered from the partisan crowd on the other side. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=15)