# Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417 "2013-09-09T16:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/521 "2013-09-23T21:33:21Z")
No, they were not a lie. They were cleverly disguised to look like piles of rusting iron! Oh, that sneaky Saddam. But they were not calutrons. That is _right out_! ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/522 "2013-09-23T21:54:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No, they were not a lie. They were cleverly disguised to look like piles of rusting iron! Oh, that sneaky Saddam. But they were not calutrons. That is _right out_! Saddam is so sneaky that he has apparently threatened Curveball from the grave to admit to Fox News nonetheless that the mobile WMD production facilities were all a lie. > [@](#): > > FOX News Radio - “Curveball” Admits He Lied About WMDs To … > [radio.foxnews.com/2012/04/02/curveball-admits-he-lied](http://radio.foxnews.com/2012/04/02/curveball-admits-he-lied)… > The man whose lies led to 100,000 deaths comes clean. It was a confidence trick that changed the course of history, with Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi’s … > > [http://radio.foxnews.com/2012/04/02/curveball-admits-he-lied-about-wmds-to-get-rid-of-saddam/](http://radio.foxnews.com/2012/04/02/curveball-admits-he-lied-about-wmds-to-get-rid-of-saddam/) You’d think Magiver would accept a Fox News Report but he must have better sources than the best news agency in the entire universe. But there slogan is 'We Report You Decide" I guess that’s for when they have no choice but to report accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/523 "2013-09-24T02:20:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Except that a “calutron” is a gadget for separating isotopes of uranium. > > [Calutron - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calutron) > > Absolute fail. Neutron density stupid, so stupid it has its own event horizon. Yes elucidator, I know what a calutron is. We were talking about them a decade ago. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/524 "2013-09-24T02:22:44Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Saddam is so sneaky that he has apparently threatened Curveball from the grave to admit to Fox News nonetheless that the mobile WMD production facilities were all a lie. ??? He used them in the war with Iran and on the kurds. Out of curiousity, is English your primary language? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/525 "2013-09-24T03:38:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Except that he routinely didn’t cooperate with inspections and built items like mobile calutrons so they could be moved around. There is no such thing, now or ever, as a “mobile calutron”. “Curveball” famously claimed that Saddam had mobile _chemical weapons labs_, and _that_ proved to be bullshit. Which still isn’t a calutron. You have unlocked the achievement of being wrong about bullshit. Congrats. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/526 "2013-09-24T04:06:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There is no such thing, now or ever, as a “mobile calutron”. “Curveball” famously claimed that Saddam had mobile _chemical weapons labs_, and _that_ proved to be bullshit. Which still isn’t a calutron. he had Calutrons on truck beds. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/527 "2013-09-24T04:13:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > ??? He used them in the war with Iran and on the kurds. Yeah, when we were on Saddam’s side. I’ve mentioned in English _ **“March 2003”** _ regarding the reason Bush said we had to invade Iraq. It was not because Saddam gassed the Kurds when he was on our side. Can you please find your way to 2003 and beyond that fateful decision by Bush to invade Iraq because he told us that Iraq was concealing the most lethal weapons ever devised from the UN inspectors at that time. That was not true. Do you have any facts that lead to a conclusion that it was true? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/528 "2013-09-24T04:25:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > he had Calutrons on truck beds. > **[So WHAT Happened to Saddam Hussein's Calutrons?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=276416)** > > Saddam Hussein had an active atomic bomb program, and I understand that after the first Gulf War, IAEC inspectors discovered several calutron machines, which were hidden in the desrt. Calutrons are machines used to separate U-235 from U-238, so as to... No. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/529 "2013-09-24T04:30:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > he had Calutrons on truck beds. Not in 2003, Magiver. Saddam had all kinds of VX and other CW and a program to build a nuclear bomb… we know… But in 2003 he had nothing and was hiding nothing and he called Bush a liar for saying he was hiding them from inspectors. He was right and Bush was wrong. Where do you want to go with the facts of this time period - let’s say from September 2002 to March 2003? Why do you go back to the Reagan era? And why don’t you recognize that Assad has admitted he has CW and will give them up? Because Hussein gassed the Kurds over two decades ago? You are trying to argue that dictators who used CW can’t be trusted to give their CW up. But Saddam Hussein gave them up, said he gave them up and Bush got 4,486 Americans killed and ten times that wounded just to prove that Saddam told the truth and that he was a bungling idiot to invade Iraq. I just can’t see a pattern of facts that supports your complaints about Obama’s handling of the situation in Syria. There was no bloodletting going on in Iraq in March 2003 with 200 UN inspectors on the ground there. We will soon have UN inspectors going into Syria. And as long as they are making progress I will be quite upset if Obama pulls a Dubya and tells the inspectors to get out so he can start a war. But you should know and I know that Obama is much more intelligent and wise than that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/530 "2013-09-24T04:34:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [So WHAT Happened to Saddam Hussein's Calutrons? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=276416) > > No. [Yes.](http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/nuke/program.htm) Iraq made a deliberate effort to make its nuclear program self-sufficient and to reduce reliance upon foreign suppliers. In 1981, Israeli aircraft destroyed the Osirak nuclear reactor at Tuwaitha. After the bombing, there was a debate in Iraq on how to recover. It was then that they decided to reduce their reliance upon foreign suppliers and attain nuclear self-sufficiency. At that time, Iraq appears to have made a political decision to send its nuclear program underground. The decision to invest billions of dollars in uranium enrichment through electro-magnetic isotope separation, the so-called calutron program, is an example of how Iraq went about implementing this policy of self-sufficiency. The program did not have to depend on sophisticated imports needed for more modern and efficient methods of uranium enrichment. The Iraqi calutron program was largely indigenous and was an improvement over the technology used by the United States in the 1940’s. Iraq had been preparing secretly to operate hundreds of the relatively simple devices. truck reference [here](http://books.google.com/books?id=xkQE6rJl5sEC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=calutrons,truck,destroyed&source=bl&ots=h_QoqpekJD&sig=2_2jdiAByYzpMoJ47rlQnbiYfeA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5RVBUrfyGaml2wX4w4G4Dg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=calutrons%2Ctruck%2Cdestroyed&f=false): ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/531 "2013-09-24T04:46:37Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Look I wrote “in March 2003”. There were no curveball trailers. That has been proven to be flawed intelligence. > > I don’t know what you mean by ‘routinely’ but in 2003 and by March 2003 Iraq’s cooperation was identified as proactive according to Dr. Blix. > > My point stands. Bush lied - Saddam spoke the truth from 2002 on about WMD. You need to accept that reality or provide some substantive info that it is not the reality. Saddam had a history of lying and hiding material from inspectors. He never consistently cooperated with the inspectors. I gave the calutrons as examples. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/532 "2013-09-24T04:49:02Z")
In 1991, according to your cite. Which were destroyed, according to your cite. As well, the fact that an object may be transported on a truck bed is not the same thing as saying it is “mobile”. Pretty sure you know that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/533 "2013-09-24T04:50:47Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I just can’t see a pattern of facts that supports your complaints about Obama’s handling of the situation in Syria. Again, the world leader other than Obama who came out in support of military intervention is François Hollande. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/534 "2013-09-24T04:52:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > In 1991, according to your cite. Which were destroyed, according to your cite. As well, the fact that an object may be transported on a truck bed is not the same thing as saying it is “mobile”. Pretty sure you know that. You just got done saying they didn’t exist. So I’m guessing you use your truck to move goal posts around. Handy things those trucks. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/535 "2013-09-24T06:19:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Again, the world leader other than Obama who came out in support of military intervention is François Hollande. Why is it Obama’s screw up because many leaders refuse to stand up against a ruthless dictator that used CW on his own citizens? China’s objection to military action was based upon their worries that the price of oil would go up $10 a barrel and that would cut .25 off economic growth. Cameron supports Obama, but his PMs don’t. That doesn’t make that major world leader himself opposed to a military strike. And your statement is not supportable by the public record. Of the world’s biggest economies Obama was at 10 of 10 for support with some waiting for the UN report and hoping for a UNSC resolution. But you take \*\*10 of 10 \*\*to mean one out of twenty - one out of the whole world… .What drew you to that conclusion? And you never will admit you got it wrong. > [@](#): > > The White House on Friday released a list of 11 nations including the U.S. that signed the statement, which expressed support for “efforts undertaken by the U.S. and other countries to reinforce the prohibition on the use of chemical weapons.” > > But Mr. Putin put out a list of his own. At a news conference on Friday, he rattled off the names of eight G-20 nations, including his own, that he said oppose international military action in Syria. Ten nations altogether declined to sign the U.S. statement. > > Not all of those that did sign endorsed Mr. Obama’s call for a military strike against Syria. While Italy signed, Italian Prime Minister Enrico Letta said he had told Mr. Obama that his country wouldn’t join any military action in Syria > > Spain, which signed, isn’t a full member of the G-20, but rather, a permanent guest—putting the vote tally among members of the group of the world’s largest economies at _ **10-10** _. > > [Obama's Call to Hit Syria Splits World Leaders - WSJ](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323623304579059022988641910.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/536 "2013-09-24T07:56:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You just got done saying they didn’t exist. So I’m guessing you use your truck to move goal posts around. Handy things those trucks. I am undone. The mass and density of your authority combined with the crystalline clarity of your intellect makes no argument possible. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/537 "2013-09-24T09:00:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I am undone. The mass and density of your authority combined with the crystalline clarity of your intellect makes no argument possible. Or he thinks Saddam had a time machine to allow him to go back to 1991 to get them. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/538 "2013-09-24T09:10:09Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Cameron supports Obama, but his PMs don’t. That doesn’t make that major world leader himself opposed to a military strike. The MPs reflected the view of 75% of the British public. What did the public in the US want to happen? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/539 "2013-09-24T11:40:58Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > The MPs reflected the view of 75% of the British public. > > What did the public in the US want to happen? That’s nice. I know that. My point was and is “That doesn’t make that major world leader” opposed to US Action. Do you dispute my point? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/540 "2013-09-24T12:05:02Z")
Is your point the “major world leader” ignores the majority view of the people he represents? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=28)