# Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417 "2013-09-09T16:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/641 "2013-09-27T22:10:55Z")
Its 5pm here, and I haven’t been keeping up. So, whats the latest, is Obama weak and timid or aggressive and bloodthirsty? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/642 "2013-09-27T22:22:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its 5pm here, and I haven’t been keeping up. So, whats the latest, is Obama weak and timid or aggressive and bloodthirsty? All of the above, of course! ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/643 "2013-09-27T22:32:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not to mention that you apparently believe this agreement is a brilliant victory for Obama, providing it doesn’t work. I hope you recognize how that sounds to the rational mind. I’ve already explained my point, so those that are blessed with rational minds can understand what the brilliant victory was for Obama. The brilliant victory has already been achieved when Putin reversed his objection to dismantling Syria’s CW arsenal under the threat of possible military action by the US agsinst Syria. The brilliant victory was forcing Assad to join the CWC under the threat of US military action against his regime. > [@](#): > > A unique feature of the CWC is its incorporation of the ‘challenge inspection’, whereby any State Party in doubt about another State Party’s compliance can request the Director-General to send an inspection team. Under the CWC’s ‘challenge inspection’ procedure, States Parties have committed themselves to the principle of ‘any time, anywhere’ inspections with no right of refusal. > > [Chemical Weapons Convention | OPCW](http://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/) A huge victory for Obama is already achieved. Syria’s CW arsenal is open to all members at the CWC if they submit a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![detlep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@detlep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detlep)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/644 "2013-09-27T23:51:12Z")
The Russians sending personnel in-country to guard CW sites should lay to rest doubt over which side will prevail in the armed conflict. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/645 "2013-09-28T00:16:55Z")
> [@detlep](#): > > The Russians sending personnel in-country to guard CW sites should lay to rest doubt over which side will prevail in the armed conflict. Which Side and Why? And what is your point. The UNSC and CWC dismantling of Assad’s CW arsenal is not about which side prevails in the civil war. Are Russians not capable of guarding/securing these sites while CWs are being destroyed? And if you THINK about it, which do you see as the better way to spend the next 18 months transferring and/ or destroying CW under UN and CWC control? Would you prefer the current Assad regime to remain in power and be the one held accountable for the work being done or would you prefer that Assad be overthrown by a hodge-podge of genuine Syrian secular minded Rebels/ Al Qaeda backed extremists and who knows what ever kind foreign fighter? Would you back Romney’s campaign 2012 plan to put US troops on the ground in Syria if needed to prevent the spread of chemical weapons? Just wondering what you think about this in deeper detail. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/646 "2013-09-28T00:21:24Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The Russians did not want the language that is in the Geneva Accord to be ‘binding’ in the UNSC Resolution. Any reference to Chapter 7 means that what is written in it is binding to Syria. It is not binding. It is a toothless resolution, with no enforcement provisions. Just like Russians wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/647 "2013-09-28T01:02:59Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I don’t care what Putin’s idea of a good reputation is. You just got done saying you care about his reputation. If he doesn’t care what you think then it doesn’t matter does it? He’s going to do whatever the fuck he wants to do. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/648 "2013-09-28T01:16:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It is not binding. It is a toothless resolution, with no enforcement provisions. Just like Russians wanted. Back that up with something. Why did the Russians want a resolution at all? That would appear to be quite toothless with a broken jaw and better for Putin and Assad? Why would the Russians want Syria to sign on to the CWC? That allows any member to send in inspectors anywhere they want to go to find CW. It is not toothless if Syria does not comply in that if a violation is severed enough there could be at least nine member states on the UNSC to vote to use force and or sanctions. For years now both Syria and Russia have refused to do what they are doing to day. Did they change their minds because Senator Rand Paul began singing Kumbayahhhhh with Dennis Kucinich and promising that he won’t vote for Obama to bomb anybody because Obama is well Obama. Is that what changed Putin and Assads minds? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/649 "2013-09-28T02:04:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You just got done saying you care about his reputation. If he doesn’t care what you think then it doesn’t matter does it? He’s going to do whatever the fuck he wants to do. Anyone who’s reputation is despicable surely doesn’t care what I think or any other decent minded human being thinks. Here’s the definition of reputation: “the estimation in which a person or thing is held, especially\*\* by the community or the public \*\*” Doing what the fuck he wants to do hurts Putin’s reputation further. So if Putin’s partner in the M.E. kills women and children again with CW it will soil Putin’s reputation more and more and more than ever. Putin put his shirtless tit in a ringer here and he must trust that Assad does not turn it on for some bizarre reason. Now that Syria has joined the CWC and is expected to comply with \*\*detailed and binding dates \*\*for the planned dismantling of the CW stockpile in accordance with a soon to be passed UNSC Resolution, Putin does not get another offer by the President of the United States to hold off US Military Strikes on Syria if Assad decides again to do what the fuck he wants and gasses more innocent people to death. You continue to dodge my point but I understand that, you don’t have an argument or point to make against it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/650 "2013-09-28T02:12:12Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Back that up with something. Easy. The resolution is not based on Chapter 7 (which is what Obama wanted). Anything that UN decrees is only enforceable under Chapter 7. QED. > [@](#): > > It is not toothless if Syria does not comply in that if a violation is severed enough there could be at least nine member states on the UNSC to vote to use force and or sanctions. UNSC cannot use force or sanctions if one of the permanent members does not agree. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/651 "2013-09-28T02:21:18Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Anyone who’s reputation is despicable surely doesn’t care what I think or any other decent minded human being thinks. You admitted nothing Obama did stopped the killing. How’s his reputation? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/652 "2013-09-28T02:50:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Easy. The resolution is not based on Chapter 7 (which is what Obama wanted). Anything that UN decrees is only enforceable under Chapter 7. QED. > UNSC cannot use force or sanctions if one of the permanent members does not agree. We’ll see the text tomorrow it was just passed unanimously just like 1441 for Iraq. It has been reported that chapter 7 is listed. I have never said the UNSC could use/authorize force or sanctions if one permanent member vetoes it. Go back and read the string of messages that brings us to this point. Your last comment is invalid. It does not address my argument. Isn’t this UNSC passage of a resolution going kind of fast compared to your Terr-ibble predictions? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/653 "2013-09-28T02:51:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You admitted nothing Obama did stopped the killing. How’s his reputation? Cite it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/654 "2013-09-28T03:16:27Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > We’ll see the text tomorrow it was just passed unanimously just like 1441 for Iraq. It has been reported that chapter 7 is listed. You’re clutching at straws. This is how it is “listed”: “21. Decides, in the event of non-compliance with this resolution, including unauthorized transfer of chemical weapons, or any use of chemical weapons by anyone in the Syrian Arab Republic, to impose measures under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter;” Which means that if/when Syria doesn’t comply, there will have to be another resolution approved. Which Russia will promptly veto. ---
**Author:** ![detlep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@detlep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detlep)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/655 "2013-09-28T03:18:38Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Which Side and Why? > > And what is your point. The UNSC and CWC dismantling of Assad’s CW arsenal is not about which side prevails in the civil war. > Are Russians not capable of guarding/securing these sites while CWs are being destroyed? > And if you THINK about it, which do you see as the better way to spend the next 18 months transferring and/ or destroying CW under UN and CWC control? > > Would you prefer the current Assad regime to remain in power and be the one held accountable for the work being done or would you prefer that Assad be overthrown by a hodge-podge of genuine Syrian secular minded Rebels/ Al Qaeda backed extremists and who knows what ever kind foreign fighter? > Would you back Romney’s campaign 2012 plan to put US troops on the ground in Syria if needed to prevent the spread of chemical weapons? > > Just wondering what you think about this in deeper detail. The Russians have an interest in keeping the Syrian government in power. They [Russians] will do what it takes to keep their in-country forces secure. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/656 "2013-09-28T03:18:47Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I have never said the UNSC could use/authorize force or sanctions if one permanent member vetoes it. This is what you said: “It is not toothless if Syria does not comply in that if a violation is severed enough there could be at least nine member states on the UNSC to vote to use force and or sanctions.” Do explain how it is not “toothless” if Russia can veto the vote. It wouldn’t matter if nine or any UNSC members “voted to use force and/or sanctions”, that “force and/or sanctions” would not be approved. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/657 "2013-09-28T03:22:42Z")
I agree with the NATO Secretary General that the threat of force got the diplomacy we are seeing and that it should not be off the table until Syria’s arsenal has been destroyed and verified… just in time for the elections in the USA in November 2014, > [@](#): > > 16:42 GMT: NATO’s Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen says military options should remain “on the table” in negotiations with Syria. > > Rasmussen said he supports the recent US-Russian agreement under which the Assad regime says it will give up its chemical weapons arsenal. > > “I would expect the Syrian regime to fully comply with the demands of the international community and in the case of non-compliance we will need a very firm international response,” NATO chief said after meeting British Prime Minister David Cameron in London. > > Rasmussen stressed that it is “crucial that the UN Security Council expeditiously adopts a firm resolution that can constitute the framework for a swift, secure and verifiable elimination of all chemical weapons in Syria” > > “I do believe that the credible threat of military action was the reason why diplomacy got a chance and I think in order to keep momentum in the diplomatic and political process the military option should still be on the table,” he told reporters > > [http://rt.com/news/syria-crisis-live-updates-047/](http://rt.com/news/syria-crisis-live-updates-047/) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/658 "2013-09-28T03:54:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Cite it. > [@Russia/US UNSC Deal Reached - what it it means for masterful US President and Sec of State legacy.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-us-unsc-deal-reached-what-it-it-means-for-masterful-us-president-and-sec-of-state-legacy/668852/282): > > I know they are killing each other with conventional weapons. I didn’t say the CW dismantling process would stop that and now one has ever suggest that it would. cited ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/659 "2013-09-28T04:03:31Z")
> [@](#): > > The United Nations Security Council adopted a resolution Friday ordering the eradication of Syria’s chemical weapons. The Security Council passed the decision unanimously – with 15 votes in favor… > **[World News: Latest International Headlines, Video, and Breaking Stories From...](https://www.nbcnews.com/world?lite)** > > Get the latest news, updates, and video from around the globe. How much longer will this fool Obama embarrass us with his floundering attempts to build some sort of consensus! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/660 "2013-09-28T04:10:21Z")
> **[U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics,...](https://www.nbcnews.com/us-news?lite)** > > Get the latest news headlines and top stories from NBCNews.com. Find videos and news articles on the latest stories in the US. Oh, I see! So, a little phone call with our sworn enemy, Iran, and suddenly the Russians and Chinese are all on board! So, does high treason reach the threshold for impeachment amongst the Obama worshippers? Wake up, America! Connect the dot! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=34)