# Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417 "2013-09-09T16:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/741 "2013-10-01T18:47:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What part of less than 50% do you not understand? Obama has no support for attacking Syria. What you should have said is Obama has **some** support for attacking Syria ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/742 "2013-10-01T18:50:46Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > It is a threat to us. You may be opposed to any bombing of countries not overtly attacking us and that is fine, but they are a threat. > > The Syrian civil war is going to last a very long time. It’s a country in chaos with Islamic militants running around freely. Here are some other countries/territories that have fit that profile: > > Afghanistan, Northern Pakistan, Yemen, Chechnya/Dagestan, and Somalia. There are probably many more if I go back further than 20 years. How many Americans have died, been hijacked, been kidnapped due to terrorist attacks originating from the militants inhabiting these locales? > > Syrian refugees are starting to arrive on our shores. I wonder if any of their children will grow up with crappy parents, never fitting in, and find themselves idolizing the militant life still going strong 20 years later in what they mistakenly view as home? > > If you want to ignore the threat or do not think the threat is worth any effort, great, it’s not like you’re the only one. Eh. By that rational, WE are a threat to us. Look… any country could be a threat to us. But the civil war going on in Syria is not about us. We need to get over ourselves in that respect-- not everything happening everywhere in the world is about us. It only becomes about us when we make it so. For instance, but inserting ourselves into the thick of things by bombing. What other countries do that sort of thing routinely, as the US does? We are like the world’s biggest bomber. It’s time we stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/743 "2013-10-01T23:04:33Z")
You can draw that line so that \*no \*modern conflict involved an actual threat to United States security. Or you can draw it in a way that includes World War II, or Afghanistan, or Iran’s development of nuclear weapons or Korea and Vietnam or Bosnia and Iraq or even Granada (maybe?). It’s pretty hard to come up with anything that doesn’t look like an arbitrary or ad hoc rule for determining what is and what is not in our national security interests, which is why other factors predominate over the decision–chief among them whether there’s anything we can realistically do about the situation. But on national security implications as an isolated factor, Syria surely falls somewhere between Afghanistan and Korea. Who controls Syria (and how they do so) is at least as important to US national security interests and those of its closest allies as who controlled Korea, because of where Syria is and its relationships with Iran, Russia, and Lebanon. If the GOP base understood the connection between Israel’s security and the outcome of the Syrian civil war, I suspect there’d be a lot more support for Obama’s threatened strikes. None of which is to say we should get involved more than we already are. But I think you have to take a fairly isolationist view to think that Syria does not implicate US national interests more than, say, Yemen or Somalia. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/744 "2013-10-01T23:26:38Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You can draw that line so that \*no \*modern conflict involved an actual threat to United States security. Or you can draw it in a way that includes World War II, or Afghanistan, or Iran’s development of nuclear weapons or Korea and Vietnam or Bosnia and Iraq or even Granada (maybe?). It’s pretty hard to come up with anything that doesn’t look like an arbitrary or ad hoc rule for determining what is and what is not in our national security interests, which is why other factors predominate over the decision–chief among them whether there’s anything we can realistically do about the situation. > > But on national security implications as an isolated factor, Syria surely falls somewhere between Afghanistan and Korea. Who controls Syria (and how they do so) is at least as important to US national security interests and those of its closest allies as who controlled Korea, because of where Syria is and its relationships with Iran, Russia, and Lebanon. If the GOP base understood the connection between Israel’s security and the outcome of the Syrian civil war, I suspect there’d be a lot more support for Obama’s threatened strikes. > > None of which is to say we should get involved more than we already are. But I think you have to take a fairly isolationist view to think that Syria does not implicate US national interests more than, say, Yemen or Somalia. Excellent observation. And 1000 tons of chemical weapons stockpiled by a murderous regime in the midst of a civil war with terrorist factions involved is certainly a threat to our national security. These are not make believe weapons although some here have tried to minimize them because they have little use in conventional war. And no one is suggesting a replay of WWI. In terrorists hands these weapons can be a threat. In a way it has become apparent that the chemical weapons have contributed to a need to keep the regime that manufactured and stockpiled them intact. At least until they are all verified safely destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/745 "2013-10-02T00:09:18Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Excellent observation. And 1000 tons of chemical weapons stockpiled by a murderous regime in the midst of a civil war with terrorist factions involved is certainly a threat to our national security. These are not make believe weapons although some here have tried to minimize them because they have little use in conventional war. And no one is suggesting a replay of WWI. In terrorists hands these weapons can be a threat. In a way it has become apparent that the chemical weapons have contributed to a need to keep the regime that manufactured and stockpiled them intact. At least until they are all verified safely destroyed. Why the outrage about Syria? most dictators are like Assad-some worse, some better. Did we get all upset that Egypt (under Nasser) had (and used poison gas?) or Saddam Hussein? We seem to be going around the world, looking for places to intervene in. the fact is, 9/11 was planned and carried out in Europe. Or maybe we need I to intervene in all of these places-which will bankrupt us. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/746 "2013-10-02T00:26:51Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > the fact is, 9/11 was planned and carried out in Europe. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/747 "2013-10-02T00:36:30Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > :dubious: The WTC was located in London, duh!!! ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/748 "2013-10-02T00:36:47Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Excellent observation. And 1000 tons of chemical weapons stockpiled by a murderous regime in the midst of a civil war with terrorist factions involved is certainly a threat to our national security. These are not make believe weapons although some here have tried to minimize them because they have little use in conventional war. And no one is suggesting a replay of WWI. In terrorists hands these weapons can be a threat. In a way it has become apparent that the chemical weapons have contributed to a need to keep the regime that manufactured and stockpiled them intact. At least until they are all verified safely destroyed. How are minimally effective weapons (1,400+/- (probably very -) vs. over 100,000 via conventional means) in the hands of people fighting in Syria a threat to US National Security? I thought we had this terrorism thing licked. Or we’re arming and supporting them, in which case why would we worry about them using them on us? Or is it possible that all the sunshine and rainbows being blown by the Administration about how We’ve Got Things In Hand something less than the truth? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/749 "2013-10-02T00:51:38Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Why the outrage about Syria? most dictators are like Assad-some worse, some better. Did we get all upset that Egypt (under Nasser) had (and used poison gas?) or Saddam Hussein? We seem to be going around the world, looking for places to intervene in. the fact is, 9/11 was planned and carried out in Europe. Or maybe we need I to intervene in all of these places-which will bankrupt us. I have no outrage over Syria. I like the way our President is cool and collected and has been getting things done, and often it is with opposition from his political side and supporters. Take a minute and see the photo in this link. [http://www.isaf.nato.int/article/isaf-news-list/kabul-air-wing-receives-new-mi-17-helicopters.html](http://www.isaf.nato.int/article/isaf-news-list/kabul-air-wing-receives-new-mi-17-helicopters.html) The caption under the photo is this: > [@](#): > > KABUL, Afghanistan – Elements from the Afghan Air Force and Russian contractors download an Mi-17 helicopter from Antonov An-124 Ruslan heavy lift freighter on the flight line of the Kabul Air Wing at the Kabul International Airport, Afghanistan, September 17, 2013. Two Mi-17 helicopters are to remain with the KAW in addition to the one received earlier this month; the third will head to Kandahar. Once build up of these aircraft is completed, they will advance the KAW’s mission support capabilities as the Afghan National Security Forces prepare to take over the lead for security in Afghanistan. (U.S. Army photo by Staff Sgt. Richard Andrade, International Security Assistance Force HQ Public Affairs/released) An amazing outcome has evolved with regard to Syria, but on the other side of Iran, there is something of huge historical and geo-political significance happening too. This photo of Antonov An-124 landing at Kabul International tells a story that no one wants to pay attention to. Just check out the photo… nothing more than that… and think about what it means since the Reagan era and the 'so called graveyard of empires, and all that has happened since. So many spend so much time crapping on Obama that they can’t see the history unfolding in front of them. That is from the right, left and middle. This photo among many, tell me that we are finally headed in a better direction in Syria and most importantly our diplomatic relationship with Iran… For the tidbit pouncers… there’s a long way to go for sure, but trend and direction are what is important as the crisis and conflicts around the world are being dealt with. You point about what happened in the past should be noted, but in no way should it limit what must be done going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/750 "2013-10-02T00:56:15Z")
Why do you take it as a positive sign that the Afghans are getting Soviet (sorry, Russian) helicopters instead of American-made Blackhawks? Just asking. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/751 "2013-10-02T01:04:32Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > How are minimally effective weapons (1,400+/- (probably very -) vs. over 100,000 via conventional means) in the hands of people fighting in Syria a threat to US National Security? I asked for a cost analysis and percentage of shots fired for the 1400 vs 100,000 killed. Apparently you are not capable of understanding the significance of the fact that 1000 could be killed in one evening, while 100k were killed over a period of a couple of years. So get back with me with the total of shots fired by the respective weapons and we can discuss it. Could we bring rational thinking with at least some statistical accuracy to this discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/752 "2013-10-02T01:43:13Z")
Could you tell me why you think 136 people/day killed over 730 days is less distressing than 1400 (or LESS) killed in one day? Bonus question - if it was such an effective tactic/weapon, why didn’t they do it every day, all day? Are the 100,000 any less dead? If it worked SO well, why didn’t Assad just make it a daily routine and kill all his opponents while the world at large wrung it’s hands? Oh, and in case you missed it, your simpering dupe Putin, whom Obama masterfully outmaneuvered, is starting to receive consideration for a Nobel Peace Prize. At least he did something before maybe getting his… ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/753 "2013-10-02T01:46:04Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Why do you take it as a positive sign that the Afghans are getting Soviet (sorry, Russian) helicopters instead of American-made Blackhawks? > Just asking. What is negative about it? I just like it when Russia - NATO - the Government of Afghanistan come together to inch toward a result that exemplifies what our troops have sacrificed for the people of Afghanistan. This from the report below caught my eye: “The project is helping the Afghan Air Force (AAF) to develop the capabilities needed to operate and maintain its fleet of helicopters independently, including much-needed spare parts and technical training.” and this: "This project is of great value to Afghanistan and it shows that NATO-Russia Council efforts can make a vital contribution to security and stability in Afghanistan,” said NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. He underlined that the NRC shared “a common vision for Afghanistan, as a country that is secure, stable and at peace with itself and the wider region.” " I understand that Afghans are more familiar with Soviet Era Russian equipment… some may have been educated in Russian. It’s a huge advantage. And Russia needs to be a stake-holder in post-Taliban Afghanistan. They are doing many other projects like building up and repairing Soviet era projects… That’s all. If you are interested read more: [http://www.nato.int/cps/en/SID-19694350-9959BB54/natolive/news\_100106.htm](http://www.nato.int/cps/en/SID-19694350-9959BB54/natolive/news_100106.htm) > [@](#): > > 23 Apr. 2013 > > NATO-Russia Council expands Helicopter Maintenance Trust Fund Project for Afghanistan > > Building on the successful completion of the first phase of the Helicopter Maintenance Trust Fund Project, NATO-Russia Council (NRC) foreign ministers agreed on 23 April to expand the project into new areas. The project is helping the Afghan Air Force (AAF) to develop the capabilities needed to operate and maintain its fleet of helicopters independently, including much-needed spare parts and technical training. > “This project is of great value to Afghanistan and it shows that NATO-Russia Council efforts can make a vital contribution to security and stability in Afghanistan,” said NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. He underlined that the NRC shared “a common vision for Afghanistan, as a country that is secure, stable and at peace with itself and the wider region.” > The AAF currently operates 36 Mi-17 and 8 Mi-35 helicopters. Such aircraft are essential for the safe movement of troops and supplies in remote regions, which have poor transportation infrastructure, extreme climatic and environmental conditions, and the added risk of attack from insurgents. They also conduct escort missions for daylight counter-narcotics operations. Don’t you like whatever contributes to our guys getting out but leaving behind a country much better off than it was in 2001 when Osama Bin Ladin lived there? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/754 "2013-10-02T01:52:02Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Could you tell me why you think 136 people/day killed over 730 days is less distressing than 1400 (or LESS) killed in one day? > > Bonus question - if it was such an effective tactic/weapon, why didn’t they do it every day, all day? > > Are the 100,000 any less dead? If it worked SO well, why didn’t Assad just make it a daily routine and kill all his opponents while the world at large wrung it’s hands? > > Oh, and in case you missed it, your simpering dupe Putin, whom Obama masterfully outmaneuvered, is starting to receive consideration for a Nobel Peace Prize. At least he did something before maybe getting his… I’ll be happy to respond once you respond to my previous reply on this issue or at least admit that my point is taken. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/755 "2013-10-02T01:56:28Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I’ll be happy to respond once you respond to my previous reply on this issue or at least admit that my point is taken. Your point was taken, and then run with - if Assad could have killed 1400 people a day with CWs instead of wasting his time over two years using conventional weapons, why didn’t he? He could have ended this thing in around 72 days and gotten on with his life of having dinner with (then) Senator Kerry and others who visited him while all this was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/756 "2013-10-02T05:33:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Eh. By that rational, WE are a threat to us. Care to further differentiate by describing what we do when we are a threat to us? I’m pretty sure we can’t do the same things for external threats that we do for internal ones. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Look… any country could be a threat to us. But the civil war going on in Syria is not about us. We need to get over ourselves in that respect-- not everything happening everywhere in the world is about us. It is about us because: 1. it involves militants aligned with al-Qaeda. I don’t remember us ending our war with them. 2. it involves militants whose presence and growth originates in our attack on Iraq. 3. the war is spilling over into the lands of its neighbors, notably Israel, Turkey, and Jordan. These countries are allied with us and attacks on them are a problem for us. 4. we will be absorbing some of the refugee problem as time goes on. 5. we are already involved and can be sending better forms of military aid (e.g. cruise missiles). > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It only becomes about us when we make it so. For instance, but inserting ourselves into the thick of things by bombing. What other countries do that sort of thing routinely, as the US does? We are like the world’s biggest bomber. It’s time we stopped. You mean drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia, and North Pakistan? Didn’t we do those things in coordination with the governments of these countries? Every other bombing campaign I can think of was in coordination with NATO, the UN, and the Coalition of the Willing. We certainly were not bombing alone in those situations. Then there is the fact that we have managed to not bomb the FARC, the PKK, Tamil Tigers, those jihadis in the Philippines, anyone in Rwanda or the Sudan, and there are probably thousands of other conflicts in which we have played little to role - certainly not bombing. We’re not involving ourselves in Egypt or Tunisia to any noticeable degree and we don’t bomb Palestinians when they bomb Israel. Generally speaking, when we’re bombing, somebody else is bombing right along with us. All the military activity you’re seeing is due to the times we live in. The Middle East, a part of the world that is of direct strategic interest to us and many other powerful nations is losing dictators and moving toward government that directly reflects the will of the people. There’s revolution everywhere. You only have to look at the histories of all of these powerful nations that are involving themselves in this chaos to know how awful revolution and progression toward democratic government can be. I see little reason to start hesitating now when the aid the FSA wants is of relatively low cost to us and they are in opposition to guy who has facilitated the deaths of 100,000+ people, caused 1 million+ to evacuate the country, caused millions more to displace within Syria, destabilized the region, used chemical weapons against his people, used conventional weapons against his people while they peacefully demonstrated, and just generally showed that he is incompetent to govern a piece of land without providing a breeding ground for al-Qaeda affiliates and other terrorist groups. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/757 "2013-10-02T06:03:45Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > You mean drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia, and North Pakistan? Didn’t we do those things in coordination with the governments of these countries? > [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I see little reason to start hesitating now when the aid the FSA wants is of relatively low cost to us and they are in opposition to guy who has facilitated the deaths of 100,000+ people, caused 1 million+ to evacuate the country, caused millions more to displace within Syria, destabilized the region, used chemical weapons against his people, used conventional weapons against his people while they peacefully demonstrated, and just generally showed that he is incompetent to govern a piece of land without providing a breeding ground for al-Qaeda affiliates and other terrorist groups. there is a disconnect between your two statements. We are not supporting rebels in Yemen, Somalia and North Pakistan. I don’t see a positive side to supporting the FSA. They are not our friends. In fact, I would call most of them our enemies. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/758 "2013-10-02T11:06:30Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Your point was taken, and then run with - if Assad could have killed 1400 people a day with CWs instead of wasting his time over two years using conventional weapons, why didn’t he? He could have ended this thing in around 72 days and gotten on with his life of having dinner with (then) Senator Kerry and others who visited him while all this was going on. If you were Assad’s Sec if Defense you would be telling Assad to wantonly and deliberately cross the international ban on CW red line when conventional weapons have been effective. So you would have to explain why you were advising such a bizarre move. No one clearly understands why Assad’s regime chose CW in August. Perhaps it was a test if the red line because more of that would come if the world did what you and Mace and isolasionst cower in fear Republicans like Rand Paul had their way. It is a good thing that world leaders including our own were not all Rand Paul’s. If that were the case your 72 day scenario would have worked out and perhaps it would be Rand Paul sipping tea with the Assad family for resolving the problem with not one dime of American money needing to be spent. And you have not explained how all that deadly gas wafting aloft on the prevailing winds do not cross borders into Israel and Turkey. Fortunately for the good people oin Syria and neighboring Nations Rand Paul is not our president. That is because we see as a result of that red line being crossed the process if destroying that CW arsenal is underway. And Assad had joined the CWC, so. Syria Defense Minuster Werekoala no long will have the option to cross that CW redline not will the terrorist opposition get their hands on them after November 2014, just before the mid term election. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/759 "2013-10-02T13:29:23Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Care to further differentiate by describing what we do when we are a threat to us? I’m pretty sure we can’t do the same things for external threats that we do for internal ones. You wrote: > [@](#): > > Afghanistan, Northern Pakistan, Yemen, Chechnya/Dagestan, and Somalia. There are probably many more if I go back further than 20 years. How many Americans have died, been hijacked, been kidnapped due to terrorist attacks originating from the militants inhabiting these locales? How many Americans have been thusly affected by terrorists originating from the US? The places you list, above, are failed states. Syria wasn’t a failed state, and if we start bombing them, all we will do is push them quicker and further towards that status. We’re not talking about bombing the Islamists in Syria-- we’re talking about bombing the regime that is fighting those Islamists. > [@](#): > > It is about us because: > > 1. it involves militants aligned with al-Qaeda. I don’t remember us ending our war with them. We are not at war with every group that claims some sort of allegiance to al Qaeda-- they’re all over the place. We’re “at war” with the folks who set up training camps to commit terror acts agains the US. That isn’t happening in Syria now, but it might if we start bombing them. > [@](#): > > 1. it involves militants whose presence and growth originates in our attack on Iraq. So? We’re done there. Please don’t tell me you want to re-ignite that conflict. > [@](#): > > 1. the war is spilling over into the lands of its neighbors, notably Israel, Turkey, and Jordan. These countries are allied with us and attacks on them are a problem for us. No, it’s not “spilling over” into those country in any meaningful way. Refuges are flooding into those countries, and we should help them, but the war itself is not. If Assad starts attacking Turkey and they ask for our help, then that’s a different story. > [@](#): > > 1. we will be absorbing some of the refugee problem as time goes on. Maybe, but so what? I’d rather have some refuges than get involved in another land war in Asia. > [@](#): > > 1. we are already involved and can be sending better forms of military aid (e.g. cruise missiles). To whom do you suggest we send cruise missiles? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/760 "2013-10-02T13:50:20Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I asked for a cost analysis and percentage of shots fired for the 1400 vs 100,000 killed. Apparently you are not capable of understanding the significance of the fact that 1000 could be killed in one evening, while 100k were killed over a period of a couple of years… It’s up to [**115,000**](http://news.antiwar.com/2013/10/01/monitor-115000-killed-in-syrias-civil-war/) now. But can we please get rid of this canard once and for all? Fact is, that about HALF of those killed were actually Assad forces (47,206), roughly 17,000 were rebels and the rest, about 40,000 civilians of all stripes caught in the fighting – from link: > [@](#): > > and the split there is impossible to ascertain, but includes large numbers of Alawite and Christian civilians killed by rebels for being “pro-government,” and a lot of innocent bystanders simply killed in the fighting. So let’s not keep going with the butcherous Assad meme – not like his opponents are figting with a hand tied behing their back nor exactly following Geneva Protocols for a “fair war.” They are both just as nasty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=39)