# Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417 "2013-09-09T16:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/841 "2013-10-12T14:30:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your figures are a little off - it was actually a million zillion jillion. > If you think France makes up the entire civilized world, then you must be Parisian. > > But if it was such a major threat, why did everyone except the French decline to assist Obama in his desires to go all Everquest on Assad? > > Regards, > Shodan Actually the French people do not back this so your statement is incorrect. There is no international support for this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/842 "2013-10-12T15:47:13Z")
I can’t remember losing any sleep in Jun 2012 over Syria’s chemical weapons. And the entire civilized world thought they were so much of a threat that they did… nothing. Some threat they must have been! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/843 "2013-10-12T16:40:15Z")
Speak for yourself, **John**! I always threw a live kitten before I got in the shower just in case those nasty Syrians had poisoned my water supply! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/844 "2013-10-12T16:52:00Z")
Don’t get me wrong-- I think it’s great the Putin arranged for Syria to get rid of its CWs. I doubt they will really get rid of all of them, but they’ll probably get rid of most, and that will make it less likely for them to fall into the wrong hands (are they any right hands for CWs)? Of course, I do have some serious concern that we’re doing this in the middle of a civil war, and that might increase the odds of them getting lose, but it’s too lake to stop now. Had Syria used CWs outside their own boarders, I have no doubt the entire civilized world would have tried to do something about it. But when it comes to internal conflicts, there isn’t a whole lot that the “entire civilized world” is willing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/845 "2013-10-12T17:03:35Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Speak for yourself, **John**! I always threw a live kitten before I got in the shower just in case those nasty Syrians had poisoned my water supply! Yes, but you’re Spanish. The French don’t need to do this, since they don’t shower. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/846 "2013-10-12T17:36:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I can’t remember losing any sleep in Jun 2012 over Syria’s chemical weapons. > > And the entire civilized world thought they were so much of a threat that they did… nothing. Some threat they must have been! John Mace does not care if any murderous dictator has WMD. Cite polls that ask if preople consider al Qaeada gaining control of a CW Arenal and get back to me. You are citing opinon on something else. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/847 "2013-10-12T17:53:53Z")
Do not presume to tell me what I think. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/848 "2013-10-12T21:35:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do not presume to tell me what I think. I am not presuming. That is what you wrote. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/849 "2013-10-12T21:43:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Your figures are a little off - it was actually a million zillion jillion. > If you think France makes up the entire civilized world, then you must be Parisian. > > But if it was such a major threat, why did everyone except the French decline to assist Obama in his desires to go all Everquest on Assad? > > Regards, > Shodan It was not just France. It was Israel, Turkey, the Brits, Russia to name a few. And it was in fact The GOP nominee for President who considered it such a threat that he promised to send in US ground troops to deal with the spread of Assad’s CW. So pretend all you wish that the world’s leaders cared little about the CW threat, but the facts remain that they did and still do. That is why they are all being destroyed right now before your very eyes at a record pace. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/850 "2013-10-12T21:48:31Z")
Looks like in addition to being fooled by W and Obama, we can now add Mitt Romney to the list. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/851 "2013-10-12T22:32:43Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > John Mace does not care if any murderous dictator has WMD. . . . Christ, man! I want to be on your side, but I can’t, when you put forward absurd and offensive slurs like this. You are not helping! You’re driving people away from the very points you ought to be trying to make persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/852 "2013-10-12T23:03:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Just as there were multiple groups among the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, (before the Reagan administration decided to support a limited number of them, effectively arming only the future Taliban) My understanding is that the Taliban was actually a pretty minor faction in the anti-Soviet resistance. Their rise to power came after the Soviet withdrawal. American support went to various groups but it eventually centered on a coalition of seven resistance groups, the Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen. The Taliban was not one of these groups, although it later recruited members from them. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/853 "2013-10-12T23:07:23Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Christ, man! I want to be on your side, but I can’t, when you put forward absurd and offensive slurs like this. You are not helping! You’re driving people away from the very points you ought to be trying to make persuasive. I will find you the post where Mace wrote that. I’m out this evening but will provide it soon. It is not a slur if Mace wrote it, is it? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/854 "2013-10-13T04:33:36Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > John Mace does not care if any murderous dictator has WMD. > > You are citing opinon on something else. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do not presume to tell me what I think. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I am not presuming. That is what you wrote. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Christ, man! I want to be on your side, but I can’t, when you put forward absurd and offensive slurs like this. You are not helping! You’re driving people away from the very points you ought to be trying to make persuasive. Here is where John Mace wrote he didn’t care that that a murderous dictator had WMD (Bolding Mine): > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > And I still don’t think a wrong call on Bush was all that dumb. I must have made a thousand posts during 2002 about the misinformation Bush and his inner circle were disseminating, and it was blindingly obvious that he wanted war (although that was another thing he lied about in speech after speech), but I still breathed a sigh of relief when the UN reports in early 2003 made it clear to everyone that the CIA had been wrong. I really didn’t think Bush would have the brass to ignore them, because up to then, he had always ensured that his actions could be construed (by true believers, anyway) as misguided, but sincere. \*\*-Originally Posted by TonySinclair \*\* > > I don’t recall Blix’s reports as being all that definitive. He was, after all, asking for more time and more inspections. If had already “proven” the CIA to be wrong, why did he need to do anything else? Bush effectively cut him off, though. > > I think what you may be missing, and I mentioned this upthread, is that SH had to not only destroy all his WMDs, but he had to account for their destruction, too. He was not able to do that, and one might argue that it was an impossible task, but it was still an open question. > > On my part, **I didn’t care whether he had WMDs or not**. I didn’t see that as a reason to go to war. \*\*-John Mace 02-21-2013, 10:34 AM \*\* > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=682836&highlight=Hubris&page=3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=682836&highlight=Hubris&page=3) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/855 "2013-10-13T05:03:59Z")
Point the first: I am not going to debate the Iraq war with you. Point the Second: You already got a warning in the other thread for hijacking a discussion about Syria to a discussion about Iraq. If you want to get a warning in this thread, too, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/856 "2013-10-13T05:24:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Point the first: I am not going to debate the Iraq war with you. > > Point the Second: You already got a warning in the other thread for hijacking a discussion about Syria to a discussion about Iraq. If you want to get a warning in this thread, too, knock yourself out. I didn’t bring up the Iraq war. I replied to Trinopus who wants to be on my side but it bothered him because I referred to what you wrote about not caring if a murderous dictator had WMD. I needed to prove, cite the post, so Trinopus could see that I stick with facts. This thread is about Syria and WMD and the success of inspections. You wote the following on this thread. > [@](#): > > I can’t remember losing any sleep in Jun 2012 over Syria’s chemical weapons. -Oct 12 at 11:47 AM John Mace I recalled that you didn’t care if another murderous dictator had WMD… and it looks quite certain that you don’t care that Assad killed women and children inside his borders. It is all quite relevant to the current Syria discussion. What are you worried about? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/857 "2013-10-13T05:24:36Z")
Indeed. NitfooledbyW, please refrain from derailing the thread toward Iraq. Stay focused on the topic at hand. Warning issued. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/858 "2013-10-13T05:43:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My understanding is that the Taliban was actually a pretty minor faction in the anti-Soviet resistance. Their rise to power came after the Soviet withdrawal. > > American support went to various groups but it eventually centered on a coalition of seven resistance groups, the Islamic Unity of Afghanistan Mujahideen. The Taliban was not one of these groups, although it later recruited members from them. There was no Taliban while the Soviets were still in the country. I agree that they did not come to power until after the Soviets left. However, when the first rag-tag group of Omar’s followers coalesced into the Taliban in the South of Afghanistan after the war, they were most successful in recruiting new members from the more Islamist militias–the ones that we had funded and armed. They were then able to overwhelm the other various warlords and militias whom we had refused to support. Reagan never armed the Taliban, he armed the people who would later become the Taliban, which was the point I made. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/859 "2013-10-13T05:44:23Z")
No hijack intended. Sorry. I have no interest.desire in bringing up anything but relevant points regarding the current situation in Syria. When Trinopus questioned my recollection of a post that is relevant to the current discussion I needed to post it to clarify what I wrote was factually based. That is because Trinopus wrote this, “Christ, man! I want to be on your side, but I can’t,…” I get knocked for not having posters on my side. I believe it is fair to set the record straight so someone can be ON MY SIDE in this argument/discussion regarding Syria. I thank Trinopus for pointing out something that bothered him about my posting. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2013, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/860 "2013-10-13T05:56:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Looks like in addition to being fooled by W and Obama, we can now add Mitt Romney to the list. This thread is about Syria. The topic being discussed has nothing to do with your personal attack that I was fooled by W. I think that should be pointed out. If you wish to discuss that Take it to the Arrrggggghhhhh thread and I will respond. Here I will respond to your claim that I have been fooled by Obama and Romney on Syria. As I have pointed out in the past, to be fooled by Obama and/or Romney you would have to make the case that either of them were lying about Assad’s possession of CW and the use in killing innocent non-combatants with them. Do you have a cite that Romney was lying when he expressed his campaign pledge to send in US ground troops to prevent the spread of chemical weapons in Syria? Your entire post was a personal attack that adds nothing to the discussion at hand. Are you able to contribute to the discussion? If so Please explain why you think Romney or Obama have fooled me on Syria. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=44)