# Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417 "2013-09-09T16:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/81 "2013-09-09T22:39:24Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Cruise missile with an inert warhead, a practice bomb. > Paint it pink and put his name on it, then put it through a window in his headquarters. Or an inert bomb painted like the real thing. Then call him on his private cell phone- NSA has the number. “Oh, seems we sent a dud. Sorry about that. You might want to get somebody on that. It’s sort of a special payload, maybe use your best bomb removal team. Or second best, maybe, don’t want to lose your #1 guys.” ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/82 "2013-09-09T22:42:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If the goal of the exercise is to prevent Assad from using such weapons again, and a bluff is sufficient to that end, what’s the problem? If this was a deliberate good cop/bad cop routine, it’s still a problem for America to be playing up their bad cop role to make Russia look good. If you recall, I proposed the same plan with two significant differences: 1. Emphasise that our desired outcome is a peaceful disarmament, rather than pushing for strikes and claiming the chemical disarmament option [was just rhetorical](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/09/us-syria-crisis-weapons-idUSBRE9880GE20130909). 2. Emphasise that if we attacked, we’d be directly attacking their ability to use chemical weapons and not just trying to terrorise the Syrian government into doing what we want. Neither of these changes to my own plan present America in a positive light. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/83 "2013-09-09T22:45:28Z")
“That’s a pretty big back pack” "Yes, but still [unbelievably smal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Atomic_Demolition_Munition)l, Mr Secretary. Edit- "We can launch it from [a converted VW Beetle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_%28nuclear_device%29)! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/84 "2013-09-09T22:47:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, if Obama persists he’s a warmonger, if he relents, he’s a wussie. Well, yeah, kinda. He set himself up for a no-win situation. Red Lines sometimes do that to the Red Line Setters. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/85 "2013-09-09T22:51:42Z")
Obama > [@](#): > > …says he would prefer to have a diplomatic solution to the crisis rather than launch a military attack, and called it "a potentially positive development. > [http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3896093/](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3896093/) Isn’t it great to hear a president say that and mean it? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/86 "2013-09-09T22:57:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, if Obama persists he’s a warmonger, if he relents, he’s a wussie. If he spreads his hands and creates peace with his divine power, he’s stealing his _shtick_ from Jesus? and he made all of that by himself. ok, with a little help from Kerry. At this point Mitt Romney looks a competent foreign policy option. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/87 "2013-09-09T22:59:49Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/88 "2013-09-09T23:05:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, yeah, kinda. He set himself up for a no-win situation. Red Lines sometimes do that to the Red Line Setters. So, if it hadn’t been for that, everything would be rosy? Well, OK, **John** , if you say so. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/89 "2013-09-09T23:08:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, if Obama persists he’s a warmonger, if he relents, he’s a wussie. If he spreads his hands and creates peace with his divine power, he’s stealing his _shtick_ from Jesus? In some circles yes, but who cares? If he manages to attain international control of Syria’s chemical weapons stockpiles via threat of military action, he’s achieved something. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/90 "2013-09-09T23:11:06Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > At this point Mitt Romney looks a competent foreign policy option. What do you suppose Mitt Romney would be doing about Syria right now? Serious question, not a snipe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/91 "2013-09-09T23:13:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, if it hadn’t been for that, everything would be rosy? Well, OK, **John** , if you say so. Nope, didn’t say that. What I said is that he wouldn’t have set himself up for a no-win situation. He’d still have to deal with Syria, but he’d have more flexibility. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/92 "2013-09-10T00:01:59Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > In some circles yes, but who cares? If he manages to attain international control of Syria’s chemical weapons stockpiles via threat of military action, he’s achieved something. No, actually Russia will have achieved something. Until they stepped in and convinced (maybe) Syria to turn over the goods, we were still going for a military option unless Congress said no and/or Obama struck anyway. Putin may well have a) pulled Obama’s balls out of the fire and b) scored a big win for “Russia as Peacemaker”. Democrats will paint it as a big Obama win - the rest of the world will know what really happened. Oh, and Syrians will continue to die. So… yay team? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/93 "2013-09-10T00:10:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Here’s his perfect out: our threats brought Syria to the negotiating table, and talks are proceeding. . . . . > > Or, if he’s genuinely worried about chemical weapons in Syria, he has an opportunity to resolve it peacefully, and if Assad drags his feet too much, well, we still have plenty of cruise missiles lying around. This is only going to work if Pres. Obama can get some kind of Congressional positive nod for his policy, or find a more or less graceful way to say the vote is no longer needed. I doubt that Putin and Assad think Congress will really repudiate the President on this. It’s not in their nature to think an adversary (yes, that’s what Putin thinks of us) could be so weak, and their advisors are likely telling them that the hawkish side historically wins these sorts of votes. We who actually live in the US know that this time it is different, because of the unusual public opinion situation here. But Putin and Assad don’t know that – yet. > [@Tee](#): > > If he manages to attain international control of Syria’s chemical weapons stockpiles via threat of military action, he’s achieved something. If he deters Syria from using chemical weapons on the same scale as last month in Ghouta, he’s achieved something. If he deters Syria from any further use of chemical weapons, he’s achieved a tremendous amount. If he does what you say, he’s achieved the nearly impossible. (Except if the Syrians used all their stock up in Ghouta, in which case international control of the stockpiles is, as it was with Iraq, absolutely impossible.) ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/94 "2013-09-10T01:22:58Z")
The far lefties (progressives) and Tea Partiers found common cause in opposing this strike but now what happens when they are seen in solid opposition to forcing Syria to give up its chemical weapons arsenal to international control because of the real threat of US air strikes that Obama stood his ground on the red line he drew in the sand. > [@](#): > > Today 6:19 PM > Obama: Strike ‘Absolutely’ On Hold If Assad Hands Over Weapons > In an interview with ABC’s Diane Sawyer, President Barack Obama said he would “absolutely” put his proposal for a military strike on Syria on hold if Syrian President Bashar Assad agreed to hand over chemical weapons to the international community. > > [http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3896093/](http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3896093/) I love how this is playing out with the Tea Party being put to shame if Assad lets the UN come in on the power of Obama’s threat. I think they are shamed already for bucking their own Speaker of the House, and their nominee for President just five years ago, hypocrites that most rank and file Republucans are nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/95 "2013-09-10T01:26:52Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > No, actually Russia will have achieved something. Until they stepped in and convinced (maybe) Syria to turn over the goods, we were still going for a military option unless Congress said no and/or Obama struck anyway. Putin may well have a) pulled Obama’s balls out of the fire and b) scored a big win for “Russia as Peacemaker”. > > Democrats will paint it as a big Obama win - the rest of the world will know what really happened. Oh, and Syrians will continue to die. So… yay team? Oh let the pouting begin among those who sold out their principles because they thought they had Obama cornered. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/96 "2013-09-10T01:27:51Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I love how this is playing out with the Tea Party being put to shame if Assad lets the UN come in on the power of Obama’s threat. You _really_ live in fantasy land if you think this will happen. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/97 "2013-09-10T01:29:25Z")
I’m entirely content to allow Putin to claim credit as a peacemaker. Hell, I’m tickled pink that he even _wants_ to! ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/98 "2013-09-10T02:45:41Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > No, actually Russia will have achieved something. Until they stepped in and convinced (maybe) Syria to turn over the goods, we were still going for a military option unless Congress said no and/or Obama struck anyway. Putin may well have a) pulled Obama’s balls out of the fire and b) scored a big win for “Russia as Peacemaker”. > > Democrats will paint it as a big Obama win - the rest of the world will know what really happened. Oh, and Syrians will continue to die. So… yay team? I can’t think of a scenario in which Syrians don’t continue to die. And Russia acts in its own interests, like we do, and sometimes those interests align. Currently there are armies of Islamic resistance fighters actively trying to topple a well-armed regime, and I’m sure the thought of locking up the uglier weapons occurred to people all over the place. Russia as Peacemaker rings false. Russia protecting a regime that can’t use CW anyway, at this point, makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/99 "2013-09-10T04:29:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If Obama thought we needed to strike, he should have done so as soon as he was “certain” (the Administration has assured us they have the correct intel). It should have been quick and unannounced. Instead, we’re having the equivalent of a Freshman Dorm Bull Session while the world looks on. > > n.b.: I still don’t think we should strike, but if we are going to do so, we should not dither about it the way we are now. A million times this. It should have been done unilaterally WEEKS ago. Deal with the fallout after the fact. Fuck the stupid “red line” commentary (which he never should have made…which is similarly stupid to announcing dates for troop withdrawals, etc). If we had the evidence we should have struck a long time ago if we really meant it, presented the evidence to interested parties after the fact and then rested on our laurels. But now we have Assad fully prepared and warned against any attacks on his stockpiles and not only have they been moved, but likely moved into areas that will deliberately give the USA a black eye by causing civilian casualties. And that’s the best case scenario. Jesus our options suck now because of delay. I hope to God the Congress votes an attack down. There’s nothing to be gained by attacking NOW. That ship sailed weeks ago. Obama is a dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/100 "2013-09-10T04:35:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You _really_ live in fantasy land if you think this will happen. Why? Assad already let the UN come in, just like Saddam Hussein did in November 2002. Anyone who must delve into the minutia that Obama’s Secretary of State is incompetent over a comment about ‘unbelievably small’ has no business telling anyone they live in a fantasy land. Since letting the UN inspectors in under just the threat of use of military force happened with Saddam Hussein it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it will happen with Assad. Assad wants to survive and he has actual chemical weapons to give up. AndvI believe Russia has a bigger stake in seeing Assad survive than they did with regard to Iraq. So Assad has good reason to comply with what Putin says he needs to do to maintain Russian support for his regime. The odds are damn good that Syria can be disarmed of CW without the need for use of force. Those who will wish to claim that Obama’s bold red line stance had nothing to do with disarming Syris of CW will be laughed of the right wing media/pundit stage for such absurdity. And even if Syria does not come through with what it has now publically vowed to do, and thus embarrass Putin, Obama gains credibility with his position that Syria must be punished by military strike. It’s become a win win for Obama and to listen to the righties who can’t stand anything Obsma does, that reality is already becoming clear. If course they’ll claim Assad is conducting a stall and a ruse, but that reminds me how they said that and still say it about Saddam Hussein. They were wrong then and wrong now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417.md?page=6)