# Can anyone defend the Admin's diplomacy with Iran drive? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2013, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989 "2013-09-30T11:14:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/21 "2013-09-30T20:47:31Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Boggles the mind that these people can argue that bullets would be a more suitable starting point than words… :rolleyes: > > Any of these fine folk guilty of doing a 180 after hammering Obama for threatening to bomb Syria? At this rate by the time Obama’s finished there won’t be any need for the Republican Party. That Party’s main reason for bring is to hype up New and used Boogymen, but they blew it on Syria by not wanting to bomb the boogyman there. Now it’s bomb the Iranian boogyman - no diplomacy allowed. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/22 "2013-09-30T20:55:47Z")
The American people did not want to bomb Syria. Obama’s approval rating has been falling steadily all year. His approval rating for his handling of Syria is at 36%, and from abc’s latest opinion poll: _The public by a 15-point margin is more apt to say Obama’s performance on Syria has weakened rather than strengthened U.S. global leadership, and six in 10 continue to oppose the missile strikes he urged._ Not seeing a lot of calls for bombing Iran, but maybe my tin foil hat isn’t adjusted right. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/23 "2013-09-30T21:01:11Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > That Party’s main reason for bring is to hype up New and used Boogymen, but they blew it on Syria by not wanting to bomb the boogyman there. > > Now it’s bomb the Iranian boogyman - no diplomacy allowed. Well, there will be diplomacy, regardless of what some so-far unnamed Republicans think. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/24 "2013-09-30T21:37:40Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Who? Fox News? Rush? Breitbart? Some other mook? > > Context is important. If it’s just Limbaugh’s usual bitching, not one is likely to give a shit but the dittoheads, and they’re aactually not that large in number. No it was WMAL Radio in DC area pumping crap into empty minds during the AM commute. Too bad this was moved to the pit. The two diplomatic breakthroughs just the past couple weeks could also be setting the stage for gradual optimism on resolving the Syrian civil war. Ditto heads are incapable of thinking strategically but it must confuse them when their bloated pig leader has been a peacenik for two weeks on Syria but now peace is breaking out with Iran. Watching ditto heads deal with such anomalies going back and forth is interesting to me. We have Magiver and Terr to watch as two perfect specimen. I was hoping to get their diss of Obama diplomacy with Iran. Other news that must trouble ditto heads and what’s left of the bomb bomb bomb Iran crowd was the Egytian military full scale ban on the Muslim brotherhood. And there was the news that Hamas is going broke and is in a tiff with Iran. Israel had high praise for a serious Egyptian military crackdown against extremist operating in the Sinai. Shia are taking the brunt of the bombings in Iraq and Iran is Shia and must be finding it difficult to stop it. Interesting things are happening in the part of the world where all was said to be in flames a year ago and it was all Obama’s fault for leading from behind. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/25 "2013-09-30T22:18:36Z")
If you don’t want your threads moved to the pit, don’t post shit for OPs. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/26 "2013-09-30T22:19:03Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The two diplomatic breakthroughs just the past couple weeks could also be setting the stage for gradual optimism on resolving the Syrian civil war. Iran is for Assad, we’re against him – can civil negotiation resolve any of that? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/27 "2013-09-30T22:29:14Z")
[Quote=NotfooledbyW] We have Magiver and Terr to watch as two perfect specimen. I was hoping to get their diss of Obama diplomacy with Iran. [/Quote] So, maybe I’m misunderstanding, but you’re saying you started this thread just to piss off some other posters, by name, whose political opinions you don’t like? Uh, good luck with that. _backs slowly out of thread_ ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/28 "2013-09-30T22:50:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you don’t want your threads moved to the pit, don’t post shit for OPs. Hear hear ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/29 "2013-09-30T22:54:52Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > No it was WMAL Radio in DC area pumping crap into empty minds during the AM commute. WMAL? Don’t you understand Spanish? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/30 "2013-09-30T23:13:34Z")
Are you having a stroke? Because that’s the only way this thread makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/31 "2013-09-30T23:35:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The American people did not want to bomb Syria. Obama’s approval rating has been falling steadily all year. His approval rating for his handling of Syria is at 36%, and from abc’s latest opinion poll: > > _The public by a 15-point margin is more apt to say Obama’s performance on Syria has weakened rather than strengthened U.S. global leadership, and six in 10 continue to oppose the missile strikes he urged._ > > Not seeing a lot of calls for bombing Iran, but maybe my tin foil hat isn’t adjusted right. That’s the problem people are ‘apt to say it’ but are not capable of explaining how or what inducators are out there pointing to any genuine perception that “Obama’s performance on Syria has weakened rather than strengthened U.S. global leadership”. That phrase is the result of about half the respondents automatically choosing the negative answer when Obama’s name us mentioned and the other half of the other half not understanding the question and not knowing what is happening in Syria. The last quarter or so are the lefties who think they, with Putin’s help, stopped a war by the war-mongering US Presudent. They think Kumbayaaahhhhh and ‘give peace a chance’ is what forced Putin to reverse his position on Syria’s civil war. Anti-war lefties don’t get to feel their oats too often, so let them have their day and their illusion about what happened the past two weeks regarding Syria. American leadership is stronger than ever - its mostly that many Democrats don’t have much fondness for militaristic diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/32 "2013-10-01T00:32:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you don’t want your threads moved to the pit, don’t post shit for OPs. What’s shit about it? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/33 "2013-10-01T00:38:41Z")
Isn’t that a Tina Turner song? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/34 "2013-10-01T01:47:59Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > What’s shit about it? What’s not shit about it? **Fooled By W**. Embarrassing his political allies on this MB since Feb 2013. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/35 "2013-10-01T01:50:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Iran is for Assad, we’re against him – can civil negotiation resolve any of that? Have you paid attention to the US / Russian transition plan? > [@](#): > > BY: Daniel Wiser > August 19, 2013 5:00 am > > More than a year since the announcement of a United States- and Russia-backed plan to establish a transitional government in civil war-torn Syria, no such body has been formed. > > The United Nations Action Group on Syria announced on June 30, 2012, a plan backed by the United States and Russia, among others, to establish a transitional government in Syria as a precursor to constitutional revisions and elections. > > However, despite the decision by the Obama administration to make the creation of an interim government the centerpiece of its Syria policy, no progress has been made. > > Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov said on Tuesday that a peace conference planned since May to institute the transitional government will likely not be held until October. > > **That has led experts to suggest that U.S. efforts to coax Russia into prodding Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, a Russian ally and recipient of $4 billion in annual arms sales, to step down and yield to a transitional body appear to have failed.** > > … > > **Russian intransigence has also played a role in delaying the talks.** “ > The administration has been working under the assumption that good faith actions from the American side will be reciprocated by the Russians,” said Michael Weiss, an analyst of the Syria conflict and editor of The Interpreter, an English-language Russian news site. > > “That hasn’t been the case across a range of issues, but none more so than Syria, **where Putin delights in repeatedly humiliating Obama’s diplomatic efforts**. Unfortunately, it took an NSA contractor with U.S. state secrets receiving sanctuary in Moscow for Obama to realize, or at least acknowledge publicly, that he’s been getting conned for five years.” > > Below is a timeline of the proposals and setbacks that have typified U.S. and Russian negotiations to organize a conference and transitional government in Syria: Diplomacy did not begin two weeks ago: Why has Russian intransigence ended? Here’s a report from two weeks ago that really get’s into the role of Iran… That is why there is not much to edit out. > [@](#): > > Could US, Iran Agree On Syria Without Assad? > > Print > Comment (1) > Share: > > * * * > > Iranian President Hasan Rouhani speaks at his first press conference since taking office at the presidency compound in Tehran, Iran, Aug. 6, 2013. > Iranian President Hasan Rouhani speaks at his first press conference since taking office at the presidency compound in Tehran, Iran, Aug. 6, 2013. > > Related Articles > > Obama Wants to Test Iran Leader’s Interest in Dialogue > Russia Denounces UN Chemical Report on Syria > Video UN Report on Syria Leaves Little Doubt about Chemical Weapons > > TEXT SIZE > > Barbara Slavin > > September 18, 2013 > More than two years after President Barack Obama said it was time for Syria’s president to go, Bashar al-Assad is still in power in Damascus. But new evidence from the United Nations pointing to his regime’s large-scale use of chemical weapons makes it more plausible that Assad could leave office as part of an international peace plan. > > In the aftermath of last weekend’s Russian-American deal to remove and destroy Assad’s large chemical weapons arsenal, members of the Syrian opposition and their supporters have complained bitterly that the agreement insures that Assad stays in power to insure implementation of the plan through the middle of 2014. However, the new international opprobrium attached to the Syrian leader because of the gassing of hundreds of civilians outside Damascus Aug. 21 is undercutting his support among even his most ardent allies, especially Iran, itself the victim of Iraqi poison gas attacks during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. > > Long before the latest revelations, Iranian officials have signaled their willingness to see a new face in charge in Damascus – so long as Iranian interests are protected by an Assad successor. > > Asked a year ago why Iran was supporting a regime that at the time had killed about 20,000 people, Ali Larijani, the speaker of the parliament said, “Who are you to say [that Assad should go]? Leave it to the votes of the people.” > > Signal of Iranian shift on Syria? > > A year later, after the deaths of more than 100,000 Syrians including more than a thousand killed by poison gas, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani on Sept. 16 told commanders of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard corps – which has been assisting Assad in battling the rebels – that Iran would accept the results of promised 2014 presidential elections in Syria. > > “Whoever Syrian citizens vote for to rule their country, we’ll agree with it,” Rouhani said, according to the Iranian state news agency. > > There are certainly many questions about whether and how Syria could hold an election in the middle of a civil war. But in discussions with the Russians and the United Nations, among others, over the past year, U.S. officials have spoken of the need for Assad to be replaced initially by a national unity government led by someone not personally involved in crimes against the Syrian people. > > State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki reiterated the US view on Tuesday (Sept. 17): > > “Our position has not changed, that there’s no place in a future Syria for President Assad. He’s brutalized his people. More than 100,000 men, women, and children have died while he’s been president of the country. There is, of course, a goal we have in place, to put in place a transitional governing body.” > > Psaki went on to say that Secretary of State John Kerry, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and U.N. special representative for Syria Lakhdar Brahimi have been working out the parameters for a Geneva peace conference to create such a transitional government. > > “If a transitional governing body is put in place, they would be implementing this,” Psaki said, referring to the chemical weapons disarmament agreement. > > One way to facilitate a transition would be for Assad – who has run unopposed for president twice since his father, Hafez, died in 2000 – to announce that he will not seek another seven-year term as president. > > Syrian Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa is one of the names being mentioned as a possible successor to President Bashar al-Assad.Syrian Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa is one of the names being mentioned as a possible successor to President Bashar al-Assad. > > Syrian Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa is one of the names being mentioned as a possible successor to President Bashar al-Assad. > Names such as that of Syria’s Sunni vice president, Farouk as-Sharaa have been floated as possible replacements. At a security conference in Washington last week held under ground rules that forbid attributing quotations to individuals, one expert said he was told by a Rouhani adviser that what was needed was a Syrian “Karzai” – a reference to Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who was picked by multilateral negotiators to lead Afghanistan in late 2001. > > Another expert suggested quiet talks among Saudis, Iranians and Americans over how to choreograph a transition from Assad. Such talks would recall the meetings in Bonn in 2001 when then Iranian deputy foreign minister (now foreign minister) Mohammad Javad Zarif worked closely with U.S. diplomat James Dobbins on Afghanistan’s post-Taliban transition. > > Iran has been preparing for Assad’s removal for a long time, grooming Shiite and Alawite militias that would protect Iran’s equities in Syria, especially its relationship with the Lebanese militant group, Hezbollah. While Syria is important for Iran’s regional security posture, there is scant Iranian public support for the alliance and even less attachment to Assad personally. > > Indifference has turned to anger, as Iranians have watched their limited hard currency earnings sent to prop up the Assad regime, and to hatred following the use of chemical weapons. Most Iranians know someone who was killed or injured by poison gas during the Iran-Iraq war. “They can take your life away from you when you’re living,” was how one war veteran described the ordeal recently to the Washington Post. > > Chemical attacks make a difference > > While the Iranian government has not publicly accepted U.S. allegations that Assad was responsible for the Aug. 21 attacks outside Damascus, the publication of the U.N. report on Monday – which showed that the trajectory of rockets used to carry sarin gas indicated that they came from the regime stronghold of Mount Qasioun – has influenced Iran’s political elite, according to a well-placed Tehran analyst. > > Secretary of State John Kerry has cut a deal with Russia on Syria. Can he do the same with Iran?Secretary of State John Kerry has cut a deal with Russia on Syria. Can he do the same with Iran? > > Secretary of State John Kerry has cut a deal with Russia on Syria. Can he do the same with Iran? > If Iran were to be included in the negotiations over an Assad replacement, it would also signify U.S. acceptance of Iran’s important role in regional security, something that could facilitate nuclear talks with Iran as well. > > A missing piece up until now has been a coherent Syrian opposition that could take part in negotiations about a post-Assad Syria. So far, the opposition has refused to sit down with representatives of the Assad government, but that could change if there were assurances that Assad would step down. > > Psaki noted Tuesday that the Syrian Opposition Coalition (SOC) – the body recognized by the United States and its allies as representing non-extremist opponents of Assad – had elected a provisional prime minister, Ahmad Tumeh, who will try to set up a government in northern Syrian territory under opposition control. The SOC, Psaki said, is also “working to develop a comprehensive transition plan that includes preservation of state institutions and guarantees for all citizens following the end of the Assad regime.” > > Since no one wants to have to take responsibility for rebuilding Syria, that means that U.S., Iranian and Russian goals converge in a desire to preserve as much of the Syrian state as possible if/when Assad goes > > [Could US, Iran Agree On Syria Without Assad?](http://www.voanews.com/content/us-iran-syria/1752161.html) Serious people would consider having a discussion about the bigger picture as listed above instead of idiotic nonsense from one single statement that right wingers pounce on like monkeys fascinated with the a shiny object that one of them happens to find. > [@Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/1): > > Especially in the light of latest Kerry’s comments. The utter incoherence of the spokesmen that Obama sends out is astounding. > > [John Kerry gives Syria week to hand over chemical weapons or face attack | John Kerry | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/us-syria-chemical-weapons-attack-john-kerry) > > Kerry said the Americans were planning an “unbelievably small” attack on Syria. “We will be able to hold Bashar al-Assad accountable without engaging in troops on the ground or any other prolonged kind of effort in a very limited, very targeted, short-term effort that degrades his capacity to deliver chemical weapons without assuming responsibility for Syria’s civil war. That is exactly what we are talking about doing – **unbelievably small, limited kind of effort**.” > > I think Kerry should be fired for incompetence. Fired for ending Russian intransigence on the CW issue. I can see why it is important to get the CW destroyed before moving to the next step of trying to put together a transitional government. If Russia, Iran, the US, EU and Saudi Arabia can assist the Syrian people in getting a transition government… That is diplomacy. Firing Kerry is the stupidest idea even for really stupid people. And for all those jokers here who scoff at anyone working toward an ideal resolution to civil war in Syria and think they are hot shit to want to wait until it happens… you obviously do not know how diplomacy works. IF you have a cynical and defeatist attitude to start with… nothing happens. Let’s thank Senator Clinton and Kerry who obviously have been working this for some time. And let’s not be idiots who think that Putin is the diplomat here. Putin is in a mess because his partner is a murderer of Muslims. This Iran news is overshadowed by the Republicans acting like terrorists here at home… so its not getting proper attention… But the Republicans will back down shut down or no shut down and then when the media gets bored with that they will get back into Syria and Egypt and Iran and diplomacy. I can’t wait. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/36 "2013-10-01T01:55:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Iran is for Assad, we’re against him – can civil negotiation resolve any of that? Have you paid attention to the US / Russian transition plan? > [@](#): > > BY: Daniel Wiser > August 19, 2013 5:00 am > > More than a year since the announcement of a United States- and Russia-backed plan to establish a transitional government in civil war-torn Syria, no such body has been formed. > > The United Nations Action Group on Syria announced on June 30, 2012, a plan backed by the United States and Russia, among others, to establish a transitional government in Syria as a precursor to constitutional revisions and elections. > > However, despite the decision by the Obama administration to make the creation of an interim government the centerpiece of its Syria policy, no progress has been made. > > Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov said on Tuesday that a peace conference planned since May to institute the transitional government will likely not be held until October. > > **That has led experts to suggest that U.S. efforts to coax Russia into prodding Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, a Russian ally and recipient of $4 billion in annual arms sales, to step down and yield to a transitional body appear to have failed.** > > … > > **Russian intransigence has also played a role in delaying the talks.** “ > The administration has been working under the assumption that good faith actions from the American side will be reciprocated by the Russians,” said Michael Weiss, an analyst of the Syria conflict and editor of The Interpreter, an English-language Russian news site. > > “That hasn’t been the case across a range of issues, but none more so than Syria, **where Putin delights in repeatedly humiliating Obama’s diplomatic efforts**. Unfortunately, it took an NSA contractor with U.S. state secrets receiving sanctuary in Moscow for Obama to realize, or at least acknowledge publicly, that he’s been getting conned for five years.” > > Below is a timeline of the proposals and setbacks that have typified U.S. and Russian negotiations to organize a conference and transitional government in Syria: > > [Conference to plan transitional government in Syria hits roadblocks](http://freebeacon.com/delays-mount-as-syria-burns/) Diplomacy did not begin two weeks ago: Why has Russian intransigence ended on the CW issue? Here’s a report from two weeks ago that really get’s into the role of Iran… The entire report is relevant, which is why there is not much to edit out. > [@](#): > > Could US, Iran Agree On Syria Without Assad? Barbara Slavin September 18, 2013 > More than two years after President Barack Obama said it was time for Syria’s president to go, Bashar al-Assad is still in power in Damascus. But new evidence from the United Nations pointing to his regime’s large-scale use of chemical weapons makes it more plausible that Assad could leave office as part of an international peace plan. > > In the aftermath of last weekend’s Russian-American deal to remove and destroy Assad’s large chemical weapons arsenal, members of the Syrian opposition and their supporters have complained bitterly that the agreement insures that Assad stays in power to insure implementation of the plan through the middle of 2014. However, the new international opprobrium attached to the Syrian leader because of the gassing of hundreds of civilians outside Damascus Aug. 21 is undercutting his support among even his most ardent allies, especially Iran, itself the victim of Iraqi poison gas attacks during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. > > Long before the latest revelations, Iranian officials have signaled their willingness to see a new face in charge in Damascus – so long as Iranian interests are protected by an Assad successor. > > Asked a year ago why Iran was supporting a regime that at the time had killed about 20,000 people, Ali Larijani, the speaker of the parliament said, “Who are you to say [that Assad should go]? Leave it to the votes of the people.” > > Signal of Iranian shift on Syria? > > A year later, after the deaths of more than 100,000 Syrians including more than a thousand killed by poison gas, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani on Sept. 16 told commanders of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard corps – which has been assisting Assad in battling the rebels – that Iran would accept the results of promised 2014 presidential elections in Syria. > > “Whoever Syrian citizens vote for to rule their country, we’ll agree with it,” Rouhani said, according to the Iranian state news agency. > > There are certainly many questions about whether and how Syria could hold an election in the middle of a civil war. But in discussions with the Russians and the United Nations, among others, over the past year, U.S. officials have spoken of the need for Assad to be replaced initially by a national unity government led by someone not personally involved in crimes against the Syrian people. > > State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki reiterated the US view on Tuesday (Sept. 17): > > “Our position has not changed, that there’s no place in a future Syria for President Assad. He’s brutalized his people. More than 100,000 men, women, and children have died while he’s been president of the country. There is, of course, a goal we have in place, to put in place a transitional governing body.” > > Psaki went on to say that Secretary of State John Kerry, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and U.N. special representative for Syria Lakhdar Brahimi have been working out the parameters for a Geneva peace conference to create such a transitional government. > > “If a transitional governing body is put in place, they would be implementing this,” Psaki said, referring to the chemical weapons disarmament agreement. > > One way to facilitate a transition would be for Assad – who has run unopposed for president twice since his father, Hafez, died in 2000 – to announce that he will not seek another seven-year term as president. > > Syrian Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa is one of the names being mentioned as a possible successor to President Bashar al-Assad.Syrian Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa is one of the names being mentioned as a possible successor to President Bashar al-Assad. > > Syrian Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa is one of the names being mentioned as a possible successor to President Bashar al-Assad. > Names such as that of Syria’s Sunni vice president, Farouk as-Sharaa have been floated as possible replacements. At a security conference in Washington last week held under ground rules that forbid attributing quotations to individuals, one expert said he was told by a Rouhani adviser that what was needed was a Syrian “Karzai” – a reference to Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who was picked by multilateral negotiators to lead Afghanistan in late 2001. > > Another expert suggested quiet talks among Saudis, Iranians and Americans over how to choreograph a transition from Assad. Such talks would recall the meetings in Bonn in 2001 when then Iranian deputy foreign minister (now foreign minister) Mohammad Javad Zarif worked closely with U.S. diplomat James Dobbins on Afghanistan’s post-Taliban transition. > > Iran has been preparing for Assad’s removal for a long time, grooming Shiite and Alawite militias that would protect Iran’s equities in Syria, especially its relationship with the Lebanese militant group, Hezbollah. While Syria is important for Iran’s regional security posture, there is scant Iranian public support for the alliance and even less attachment to Assad personally. > > Indifference has turned to anger, as Iranians have watched their limited hard currency earnings sent to prop up the Assad regime, and to hatred following the use of chemical weapons. Most Iranians know someone who was killed or injured by poison gas during the Iran-Iraq war. “They can take your life away from you when you’re living,” was how one war veteran described the ordeal recently to the Washington Post. > > Chemical attacks make a difference > > While the Iranian government has not publicly accepted U.S. allegations that Assad was responsible for the Aug. 21 attacks outside Damascus, the publication of the U.N. report on Monday – which showed that the trajectory of rockets used to carry sarin gas indicated that they came from the regime stronghold of Mount Qasioun – has influenced Iran’s political elite, according to a well-placed Tehran analyst. > > … > > Since no one wants to have to take responsibility for rebuilding Syria, that means that U.S., Iranian and Russian goals converge in a desire to preserve as much of the Syrian state as possible if/when Assad goes > > [Could US, Iran Agree On Syria Without Assad?](http://www.voanews.com/content/us-iran-syria/1752161.html) Serious people would consider having a discussion about the bigger picture as listed above instead of idiotic nonsense from one single statement that right wingers pounce on like monkeys fascinated with the a shiny object that one of the tribe happens to find and is fascinated with it. > [@Can anyone defend the Admin Syria drive?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admin-syria-drive/668417/1): > > Especially in the light of latest Kerry’s comments. The utter incoherence of the spokesmen that Obama sends out is astounding. > > [John Kerry gives Syria week to hand over chemical weapons or face attack | John Kerry | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/us-syria-chemical-weapons-attack-john-kerry) > > Kerry said the Americans were planning an “unbelievably small” attack on Syria. “We will be able to hold Bashar al-Assad accountable without engaging in troops on the ground or any other prolonged kind of effort in a very limited, very targeted, short-term effort that degrades his capacity to deliver chemical weapons without assuming responsibility for Syria’s civil war. That is exactly what we are talking about doing – **unbelievably small, limited kind of effort**.” > > I think Kerry should be fired for incompetence. Kerry should be fired for ending Russian intransigence on the CW issue? that is nuts. I can see why it is important to get the CW destroyed with Assad in control before moving to the next step of trying to put together a transitional government. If Russia, Iran, the US, EU and Saudi Arabia can assist the Syrian people in getting a transition government… That is diplomacy. Firing Kerry is the stupidest idea even for really stupid people. And for all those jokers here who scoff at anyone working toward an ideal resolution to civil war in Syria and think they are hot shit to want to wait until it happens… you obviously do not know how diplomacy works. IF you have a cynical and defeatist attitude to start with… nothing happens. Let’s thank Senator Clinton and Kerry who obviously have been working this for some time. And let’s not be idiots who think that Putin is the diplomat here. Putin is in a mess because his partner is a murderer of Muslims. This Iran news is overshadowed by the Republicans acting like terrorists here at home… so its not getting proper attention… But the Republicans will back down shut down or no shut down and then when the media gets bored with that they will get back into Syria and Egypt and Iran and diplomacy. I can’t wait. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/37 "2013-10-01T02:10:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Fooled By W**. Embarrassing his political allies on this MB since Feb 2013. Yep. Not necessarily disputing his underlying points, but…yep. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/38 "2013-10-01T02:28:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Yep. > > Not necessarily disputing his underlying points, but…yep. What political allies? Underlying points are underlying points. If the underlying points I make are good, I am not undermining anybody except those who don’t accept the facts. And who cares about them. Facts matter wouldn’t you agree. Mace wrote something along the lines that he doesn’t care if Saddam had WMD… Anyone who thinks like that is no ally of mine. He also wrote that GWBush was justified to take out Saddam because Saddam didn’t cooperated like he shoulda? Not exact words Terr, but the point is made. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/39 "2013-10-01T03:20:01Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > What political allies? Underlying points are underlying points. If the underlying points I make are good, I am not undermining anybody except those who don’t accept the facts. And who cares about them. Facts matter wouldn’t you agree. > Mace wrote something along the lines that he doesn’t care if Saddam had WMD… Anyone who thinks like that is no ally of mine. He also wrote that GWBush was justified to take out Saddam because Saddam didn’t cooperated like he shoulda? > > Not exact words Terr, but the point is made. You sound like a raving lunatic. I have never seen your name in this board, so I have come into this “thread” with no preconceived opinion of you. But after only a few posts, you have set yourself apart from most political thinkers on those board, right or left wing. You stand alone. I couldn’t understand why this was moved to the pit right after the OP was posted, but now I do. I think the mods were right on target to move it to the pit because you sound like you have broken a spring and are riding off balance. I don’t think I’m alone in my thoughts either, because this thread seems to be an argument with yourself. And you are losing. I think\*\* John Mace\*\* nailed it. This might be the finest example of why “don’t drink and post” should be a sticky in every forum. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989/40 "2013-10-01T03:56:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The American people did not want to bomb Syria. Obama’s approval rating has been falling steadily all year. His approval rating for his handling of Syria is at 36%, and from abc’s latest opinion poll: > > _The public by a 15-point margin is more apt to say Obama’s performance on Syria has weakened rather than strengthened U.S. global leadership, and six in 10 continue to oppose the missile strikes he urged._ > > Not seeing a lot of calls for bombing Iran, but maybe my tin foil hat isn’t adjusted right. Why do more Americans disapprove of Obama’s handling of Iran? He has not asked Congress for authority to bomb Iran. Anyway you ought to look at all polls about Syria: > [@](#): > > Do you think the threat of U.S. missile strikes has helped the situation by pressuring Syria to give up its chemical weapons, or hurt the situation by increasing international tensions?" Options rotated > > ``` > Helped Hurt No effect Unsure % % % % 9/12-15/13 47 40 3 10 > > ``` > > “If the diplomatic efforts to take control of Syria’s chemical weapons do not work, do you think Congress should or should not approve the use of military force against Syria?” > > ``` > **Should** , Should not, Unsure % % % 9/12-15/13 **44** 48 8 > > ``` > > “Overall, do you think Obama’s handling of the situation with Syria has strengthened U.S. leadership in the world, weakened it, or has it not made much difference to U.S. leadership?” > > ``` > Strengthened, Weakened, Not much difference, Unsure % % % % > > ``` > > 9/12-15/13 17 32 46 4 > [Syria](http://www.pollingreport.com/syria.htm) Meanwhile there are idiots on this forum who constantly say Obama has NO SUPPORT for strikes… two weeks ago he had 44% supporting them if diplomacy failed to secure them. I recall polls before the Iraq invasion when nearly 60% did not want Bush to invade Iraq - they wanted inspections to continue. I guess support from the public does not matter when a dumbass cowboy president is deciderin’ for war… and a ground war at that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-admins-diplomacy-with-iran-drive/669989.md?page=3)