# Can anyone defend the Hummer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 31, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214 "2007-05-31T17:53:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/81 "2007-06-02T15:34:19Z")
[QUOTE=enipla] :sigh: You see no reason, because you don’t have a need for one. Again and again in these anti-SUV threads, I see an attitude that if I don’t need something, nobody else does. [/QUOTE] If you’d read everything I’ve written in this thread so far, you’d see that I do, in fact, own an SUV in addition to my more economical car. Why do I own my Wrangler? I bought it in '99 when gas was less of a concern to me, and I bought it because I wanted to take the doors off and drive it around. Silly, sure, but whatever. Now I’m not making a payment, so I’m holding onto it for a couple times per year I feel like driving around without doors, or for when it snows a lot and my Jetta can’t go out. So I do, in fact, see a place in this world for SUVs, 4X4’s, hauling, etc. But my point is that the H3 does EVERYTHING poorly. Off-roading, it does poorly. My Wrangler does better. Gas mileage, it does poorly. Pretty much any vehicle will be better. Options, my Jetta probably has more than the H2 or H3. Hauling, it performs poorly. A pickup can haul and tow more. There is no need for an H2 or H3 to exist. No one can say “I needed to get an H2 because it was the only vehicle available that \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” In any case, I really do believe _in most cases_ that an SUV is a total waste of money and a burden on the planet. Most people do not need 4X4 capability on a day-to-day basis, but all that equipment affects your gas mileage every time you take a trip to the grocery store. Most people do not need room for 7 in a vehicle and if they do, why aren’t they driving a minivan instead? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/82 "2007-06-02T15:51:34Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] That someone would make a purchase “calculated to piss off” someone says a lot about a person. And that person’s single-digit maturity level. [/QUOTE] Just thinking in terms of judging someone without knowing them. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/83 "2007-06-02T16:00:28Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] No more so than the person who dislikes the owner of the vehicle without actually knowing the person. [/QUOTE] I don’t see it that way at all. Being annoyed with someone and intentionally annoying someone are totally different, and I think the latter is the more obnoxious behavior. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/84 "2007-06-02T18:40:26Z")
I’d defend the H1. It has a look that may attract buyers with a certain… attitude. Since it’s a matter of form following function, though, I won’t fault the H1 for that. The H2 and H3 are essentially options packages/body kits for the Chevy Tahoe and Colorado. There is no good reason for them to look like that other than to appeal to the middle-finger-response. They do not have the engineering to stand-out as particularly good SUVs. They exist to appeal to the type of person that wants an H1 purely for affect, but can’t afford to be as cool as they think they deserve to be. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/85 "2007-06-02T20:17:39Z")
[QUOTE=wasson] If you’d read everything I’ve written in this thread so far, you’d see that I do, in fact, own an SUV in addition to my more economical car. [/quote] The point is that not everyone wants, or can be set up for two vehicles. Also, double your yearly insurance. And maintenance. And license fees. It’s a balance. I understand that. There are many factors that come into play. Does your Wrangler do better off road than the H3? Sure. In most cases. Maybe not so much in other cases. I’ve owned CJ7’s and am more than familiar with FJ40’s. 4x4 trucks and have a lot of experience off roading. Your Wrangler is a toy for you. Fine. And you use it once in a while when the weather is bad. Good for you. Hey, I miss my CJ. I liked to drive around with out the top too. But for me, it was impractical as hell. For many of us, an SUV is the good compromise for having a vehicle that may not do everything great, but does everything well enough. I guess there is a great disparity here. We live in a very severe climate with some very tough roads. Twenty four feet of snow last year. I’ve owned big cars, little cars a truck a Jeep and am now on my second Pathfinder. Knowing a bit about the capabilities of all of them, I just can’t point a finger and say “you don’t need that”. I’ve said it before and I will say it again. Those that continue to be obsessed with what others drive are the ones with an attitude problem. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/86 "2007-06-03T16:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] I don’t see it that way at all. Being annoyed with someone and intentionally annoying someone are totally different, and I think the latter is the more obnoxious behavior. [/QUOTE] Chicken and egg. The only way a person can intentionally annoy another with a purchase is if the product is already considered annoying. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/87 "2007-06-03T18:53:54Z")
So if someone purchases an airhorn specifically to annoy their neighbor by sounding it in their window at 2am, they aren’t any more assholes than the neighbor is for being annoyed by the airhorn? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/88 "2007-06-03T22:36:22Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] So if someone purchases an airhorn specifically to annoy their neighbor by sounding it in their window at 2am, they aren’t any more assholes than the neighbor is for being annoyed by the airhorn? [/QUOTE] Bad analogy. An airhorn blown at 2am is an invasive act. The personal choice of a vehicle is not. The title of this thread is “can anyone defend a Hummer”. The premise that it needs defending is in itself something that needs to be defended. **enipla** has alread addressed that: Those that continue to be obsessed with what others drive are the ones with an attitude problem. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/89 "2007-06-03T23:03:54Z")
My analogy wasn’t in response to the OP, my analogy was in response to your statement “the only way a person can intentionally annoy another with a purchase is if the product is already considered annoying” which was your rebuttal to my assertion that people who make purchases just to annoy someone are exhibiting more obnoxious behavior than people who are annoyed with the purchase. I would also say that “being obsessed with” and “being annoyed by” are vastly different. (I would also say that in the case of a vehicle as large as the H2, an argument could be made that driving one IS an “invasive” act.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/90 "2007-06-03T23:33:38Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] My analogy wasn’t in response to the OP, my analogy was in response to your statement “the only way a person can intentionally annoy another with a purchase is if the product is already considered annoying” which was your rebuttal to my assertion that people who make purchases just to annoy someone are exhibiting more obnoxious behavior than people who are annoyed with the purchase. I would also say that “being obsessed with” and “being annoyed by” are vastly different. (I would also say that in the case of a vehicle as large as the H2, an argument could be made that driving one IS an “invasive” act.) [/QUOTE] You’re basing your case on the premise that it’s better to despise someone for owning a specific vehicle versus the purchase of that vehicle to counter such an attitude. That’s a judgement on your part. You can parse the difference between being obsessed or annoyed if you want but it doesn’t change the argument. The problem lies in the prejudicial attude of the person who sits in judgement of the vehicle’s owner, not in the purchase of the vehicle. You’re having problems dealing with that. I don’t like tattoos. It doesn’t matter how good the artwork is. I think it’s short sighted to apply something permenant as a form of decoration. It’s like wearing the same clothes, every day, to every occasion, for the rest of your life. With that said, I have lots of friends with tattoos and it doesn’t deminish my love for them nor does not affect my judgement of strangers who have them. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/91 "2007-06-03T23:43:10Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] You’re basing your case on the premise that it’s better to despise someone for owning a specific vehicle versus the purchase of that vehicle to counter such an attitude. That’s a judgement on your part. You can parse the difference between being obsessed or annoyed if you want but it doesn’t change the argument. The problem lies in the prejudicial attude of the person who sits in judgement of the vehicle’s owner, not in the purchase of the vehicle. You’re having problems dealing with that. I don’t like tattoos. It doesn’t matter how good the artwork is. I think it’s short sighted to apply something permenant as a form of decoration. It’s like wearing the same clothes, every day, to every occasion, for the rest of your life. With that said, I have lots of friends with tattoos and it doesn’t deminish my love for them nor does not affect my judgement of strangers who have them. [/QUOTE] Wow talk about a bunch of hogwash. I never said it was better to “despise” anyone for anything. I don’t “despise” people who drive Hummers. I find Hummers annoying. Big HUGE difference that I’m sorry you are unable to see. I could make a paragraph just like your one about tattoos, discussing how I find driving near Hummers irritating, but how I have friends who drive them and I don’t judge them as people. Except that none of my friends could afford one even if they wanted one, so I don’t actually have any friends with Hummers. But if I did, I still wouldn’t judge them because of it. I wouldn’t want to drive behind them in traffic, or next to them, or park near them, though. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/92 "2007-06-04T00:54:48Z")
[QUOTE=T\_SQUARE] …French cars… [/QUOTE] Isn’t this an oxymoron? ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/93 "2007-06-04T01:06:58Z")
[QUOTE=enipla] …and again in these anti-SUV threads, I see an attitude that if I don’t need something, nobody else does. [/QUOTE] FWIW, I didn’t see this as an anti-SUV thread. Frankly, If you an afford an H2 or H3, don’t mind paying the gas for it, and don’t mind having a vehicle that is kinda mediocre at being what it pretends to be, then just have at it. Environment be damned, there’s a lot bigger problems then the number of H2’s on the road. I kinda like the look of the H2 & H3. I’ve always liked what cars with quirky or stand-out designs. I also liked the Aztek. But - frankly - because it’s really just an SUV pretending to be a military vehicle, I think it falls in my mental categories into the “poseur” class, along with the 4-bangers that have been “tuned” with stick on stripes, yellow spray paint, and neon tubes. “Pretending” is the key word. A Lanborghini isn’t pretending - it does what it’s supposed to do. An H1 does what it’s supposed to do. My POS 4Runner does what it’s supposed to do. A Civic does what it’s supposed to do. An H2 or H3 doesn’t do what they’re supposed to do, unless what it’s supposed to do is just drive on the highway. This thread, to me, is an anti-poseur thread. ---
**Author:** ![happywaffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ee59a6/32.png) [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/94 "2007-06-04T01:29:15Z")
[QUOTE=Belrix] This thread, to me, is an anti-poseur thread. [/QUOTE] Nail on head! –OPer ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/95 "2007-06-04T02:21:46Z")
[QUOTE=wasson] I don’t know what the D.R. is [/QUOTE] Allow me to stamp out a wee bit of ignorance and introduce you to a nation called [The Dominican Republic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic). It’s been around a really long time. Honest. Even in Peoria, some people have heard of it. 😃 Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/96 "2007-06-04T03:17:40Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Wow talk about a bunch of hogwash. I never said it was better to “despise” anyone for anything. I don’t “despise” people who drive Hummers. I find Hummers annoying. Big HUGE difference that I’m sorry you are unable to see. I could make a paragraph just like your one about tattoos, discussing how I find driving near Hummers irritating, but how I have friends who drive them and I don’t judge them as people. Except that none of my friends could afford one even if they wanted one, so I don’t actually have any friends with Hummers. But if I did, I still wouldn’t judge them because of it. I wouldn’t want to drive behind them in traffic, or next to them, or park near them, though. [/QUOTE] OK, You’re annoyed. But you’re annoyed enough not to want to be near one. It’s just another big vehicle but for some reason it annoys you enough to discuss it. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/97 "2007-06-04T03:24:30Z")
I am discussing it because it’s what’s being discussed in the thread. I don’t want to be near it in the same way I don’t like driving behind/next to step vans or semis or any other oversized vehicle. It doesn’t feel safe to me. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/98 "2007-06-04T03:49:41Z")
Last year, on the way to work each day, I had to walk past a bright yellow H2 with a pair of large, plastic testicles hanging from the back. While visiting my parents, I saw another H2 on the road, also with a pair of testicles hanging from the back (these ones in chrome). I’d guess that I’ve seen a total of ten H2s during the year, so by my totally unscientific method I estimate that 20% of H2 owners need to have large, artificial balls attached to their vehicle. That, in my humble opinion, says it all. ---
**Author:** ![wasson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/4da419/32.png) [@wasson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wasson)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/99 "2007-06-04T12:59:03Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] OK, You’re annoyed. But you’re annoyed enough not to want to be near one. It’s just another big vehicle but for some reason it annoys you enough to discuss it. [/QUOTE] I also hate semi trucks (except for Optimus Prime), and UPS trucks, and FedEx trucks. I will do what I can to not park by one or follow one in traffic, since they get in the way and invade my lane and such. But I also can’t complain about those much, because their reason to exist is quite obvious… they deliver food and goods to shops and homes. I look at one, and I know why it’s taking up valuable road space and being a bit of a nuisance to other drivers. A Hummer, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214/100 "2007-06-04T16:06:03Z")
[QUOTE=enipla] \ For many of us, an SUV is the good compromise for having a vehicle that may not do everything great, but does everything well enough. \ [/QUOTE] This little sentence right here is pretty much what I’m trying to explain to you (general **you** here, this isn’t personal). I’m not going to try and go back and respond comment by comment on everything I’ve missed, but I’ll try and hit the high points. What **enipla** said is exactly why I bought the H3. Trust me, I **knew** that I wasn’t going to be climbing mountains or fording rivers in the H3. But for the minimal conditions that I’d need it for around here, it fit the bill. It did just enough so that I could use it when I needed it, but was also a good daily driver. And you’ve been missing the point about the options I bought. A quick check of the H3 site gives me this list > [@](#): > > CHASSIS > Vortec 3700 3.7L engine // Full-time 4WD // Fully welded, ladder-type frame // Independent front suspension // Multi-leaf, semi-elliptic dual-stage leaf spring rear suspension // Electronically controlled 2-speed transfer case // Traction control system // H3 embossed aluminum front skid plate > > SAFETY & SECURITY > Dual frontal air bags with Passenger Sensing System (PSS) // OnStar with 1 year Safe & Sound service plan\* // Remote key fobs with panic button // 4-wheel disc brakes with Anti-lock Breaking System (ABS) // Daytime running lamps // Halogen headlamps with auto lamp control // Tire Pressure Monitoring system // Battery rundown protection > > INTERIOR FEATURES > Seating for 5 // Standard cloth front bucket seats // 60/40 split 2nd-row seat // Power windows // Power door locks // Air Conditioning // Cruise Control // Driver Information Center (DIC) // Tilt steering wheel // 3 power outlets // Single disk CD, ETR AM/FM stereo with clock // 6 speaker sound system // 5 assist handles > > EXTERIOR FEATURES > Front and rear recovery hooks // 16 x 7.5-inch aluminum wheels // P265/75R16 all-terrain tires // Full-size, gate mounted spare tire // Fog lamps // Rear window defogger > > BASE MSRP $29,995.00 > > COLORS > > EXTERIOR: Midnight Blue Metallic \* NO CHARGE \* > INTERIOR: Ebony > \* NO CHARGE \* > > SELECTED OPTIONS > > H3 LUXURY PACKAGE > GM 100,000 MILE / 5-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY\*\*\*, Leather appointed front and rear seats. Heated front seats. 6-disc CD changer with AM/FM stereo. 7-speaker Monsoon sound system. Front and rear carpeted floor mats. $3,230 > > Automatic Transmission w/ Stabilitrak > $1,695 > > Trailering Equipment > > $390 > Sliding Glass Sunroof > > $950 > > Carpet Cargo Mat > > $145 > > TOTAL OPTIONS $6,410 > > TOTAL MSRP AS CONFIGURED\*\*\*\* $36,405.00 Now neither the Wrangler nor the Colorado had all those same options available. Hence the reason they were less money. Do I really **need** the heated leather seats with 8 way adjustment? Probably not.._shrug_…but I enjoyed having them. I’ve tried to explain it a few times, but you seem to be missing it. I wanted a semi-luxury car as a reward for the promotion/new position. I also wanted something that was useful for those times when I needed that 4WD ability. The H3 fit that bill. Maybe you have the time/energy to put into having multiple vehicles that you own for one particular situation. I don’t. I don’t want to have to have a used 4x4 that when I need to go fetch my wife and child I have to hope it doesn’t choose that moment to have something go wrong. I don’t want to tell my wife to take it into work and pray that I don’t get a call because part x has fallen out. I want to give her the keys, and let her drive into work. And if we’re going to at least attempt to discuss this, let’s stop with all the BS straw men arguments. > [@](#): > > Most people are smart enough to take a sick day or a vacation day when there’s 24" of water on the road. If the wife’s employer doesn’t allow for that then she should quit her job. The equity in the Hummer should tide her over until she finds another job. Well, nice to know that you know so much about our lives that you can just up and volunteer my wife to quit her job. That’s not a real option as we all know. Sure I’d love it if the situation never came up…but it does, it’s a fact. I’m being very candid in this thread discussing my personal life and finances so that I can try and explain **why** I made the choice that I did. So let’s try and discuss, not be insultingly idiotic. **Belrix** has an interesting point. And surprisingly I agree. Which is why I didn’t look at an H2. I’ve also driven a real no-shitting HMMV when I was in the military. I know **exactly** how inferior the H2 and the H3 are to that vehicle. But then I’ll also point out that today’s Jeep bears little resemblance to the original, does it? What I’m trying to explain is that ya’ll are lumping two different models together and calling them same-same. And applying the same “He’s an idiot” label to the owners of both. There are a lot of versions of vehicles with the name JEEP on them…some better at some things, others…not so much. But somehow I don’t see everyone saying “He got a Jeep Compass? What a poser…it doesn’t do anything that a Jeep should do at all”. Do ya see the point? Instead of thinking how poorly it compares to the original hummer, how about you consider what other **luxury SUV** exists that has at least some **limited** 4WD ability that is in that general price range. I’m betting your list is going to be pretty damn small. Also, while it’s possible that there are one or two other vehicles out there that might have had the same abilities/features that I wanted at the time I was looking, my Aztek went belly up…on the way to the first day of the new job…so I needed something pretty quick…and didn’t have weeks to spend test-driving and researching. I took a look at every site I could, and looked at all the options they had available on their vehicles, and nothing else matched. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-defend-the-hummer/406214.md?page=6)