Can anyone explain Donnie Darko to me?

Ok, I just saw this movie for the first time and am curious as to all your thoughts:

Lamia, did they say this in the movie? I only got to see it once, and I don’t remember that bit of dialogue.
So, the movie is taking place in this alternate universe.

What’s the deal with the physics teacher? He seems to know something about what’s going on. When asked about the predestination thing, he just stops the conversation dead in its tracks as if he knew something and didn’t want to tell.

What were the punks doing in the basement of Ms. Sparrow’s house? That seemed so ridiculous to me.

How does Donnie end up back in his ‘normal’ time? The plane is in the tornado, but he seems to be miles away on the hill.

The only explination I have is still unsatisfactory. Let’s say Donnie in the alternate timeline (where most of the movie takes place) doesn’t actually go back, because he ends when his universe ends when the jet engine kills him. What then makes Donnie in the original timeline not get out of bed. After all, he wouldn’t be the same person at all.
Also, why is it that a jet engine falling from the sky from the future alternate universe is acceptable to the laws governing existance, but to have that engine not kill Donnie is somehow horribly wrong?

No, it isn’t in the movie. As I said in my (much) earlier post, it’s in the text of The Philosophy of Time Travel that you can read on the DVD.

This brings us to one of my main problems with the film. There is stuff in the movie that isn’t explained, which is fine by me. Let people come up with their own interpretations. But wait! If you get the DVD, there’s extra material that explains a lot of it. But wait again! For the most part, these explanations are neither logical nor satisfying.

I can see why the director left that stuff out of the movie, because I don’t think audiences would have bought it. What I don’t understand is why he wanted to stick it on the DVD. He has his chance to make his statement with the film, and his explanations are IMHO less interesting and less coherent than what I was able to come up with on my own. He should have either worked the backstory out better or kept his yap shut.

The notions above are completely absurd. DONNIE DARKO, written as a response to the Columbine massacre, is simply about moral CHOICE. Imagine Donnie Darko as a surrogate for Eric Harris (a medicated depressive) or Dylan Klebold and the entire movie makes perfect sense.

Not necessarily. Earlier, Donnie’s mother mentions that kids used to snoop around Ms. Sparrow’s house all the time because she’s loaded. It seems like something those punks would have done.

I think both he and his wife are both semi-conscious of the fact that they are there to help Donnie along his path. It’s (can’t remember her name in the movie) Drew Barrymore that tells Donnie the cellar door thing and ultimately allows he and Gretchen to start their relationship by sitting next to each other. I’ve also heard a theory that none of the people that Donnie encounters in the alternate universe are even real, they’re just constructs created by God to ensure that Donnie gets hit by that jet engine in the end.

I’ve forumlated a pet theory that Cherita will ultimately end up suffering a fat similar to Donnies. My only evidence is the fact that they both have crappy lives, and their names both have alliteration (which is also true of the boy mentioned by Donnie’s father who died on prom night).

Could you elaborate more before calling everyone’s notions absurd?

shy guy,

Which leads me to the biggest problem. Why does God need Donnie to fix the rift in time? To quote James Kirk, “what does God need with a Starship?”

I tend to agree. I actually don’t buy the particular theory that the entire alternate universe is an elaborate creation of God.

In fact, I’m not necessarily sure that the film supports an explaination of the events with a significant interference from God at all, regardless of what the directors says. I agree 100% with Lamia’s assessment of the director’s commentary and still find Number Six’s take on the events to be the most satisfying.

Is it OK to say that I took most of what Number Six got out of the film but feel a little of what MyFootsZZZ thinks? An enjoyable movie but I didn’t see any need to get too deep into the hocus pocus time travel. I’d classify it as not one worth buying on DVD, no need for the extra commentary it’d just mess things up a little.

Didn’t he also say something like, “I could lose my job”? I took that to mean that if they were heading toward a religious conversation, that would violate the separation of church and state.

Except that it was a private, Catholic school. I’d suspect he was more worried about losing his job if he told Donnie he was an atheist.

I don’t think it’s that God *needs * Donnie to fix anything. I always interpereted it as a choice presented to Donnie. He could live, fall in love, but then see her die and become a killer himself, or, he could chose to sacrifice himself and save the other people.

I have watched the film twice and looked through the website in its entirety. I have not yet had opportunity, however, to see the deleted scenes, having viewed the VHS rather than the DVD version. Does anyone know of a place with transcripts of them? If not, eventually I may be able to find the DVD somewhere and watch it. Until then, these are my tentative conclusions on the film (these are on the literal events which transpired, not any sort of symbolism).

Various texts on the website prove particularly useful in understanding what happened. Foremost is the Philosophy of Time Travel, but the conversation detailing the FAA’s findings is also very important. Of secondary importance is the account of Jim Cunningham’s suicide. In the Philosophy, Sparrow suggests that a Tangent Universe will eventually occur when an Artifact is transported back in time. She writes that unless the Artifact is returned to the Primary Universe using a Time Portal located along the Tangent Vortex the Tangent Universe will form a black hole which will destroy the Primary Universe. To translate, the Primary Universe is the universe that contains the original timeline. The Artifact is the engine. Time Portals are wormholes. In suggesting that the Artifact is “returned” to the Primary Universe the text must be mistaken, or using some peculiar non-literal means of expression (which it certainly does at other points). Why? The FAA conversation. This conversation takes place on April 23, 1991. In it, the man from London says that the engine which crashed on Donnie’s house is identical to an engine on a currently operational 747. He also says that this 747 has been fully operational for a six year period. This means that the engine was never removed from this plane by a wormhole in this universe (unless the wormhole removal comes much, much later, but there are reasons to believe that the wormhole actually opens on October 30, 1988 at 6:43 AM and 6 seconds). It is therefore logical to conclude the wormhole caused the creation of an entirely separate universe, not affecting the original universe at all. In this parallel timeline, the engine is sent back to October 2 at some point early in the morning, probably close to midnight and most certainly before dawn. I do not want to complicate this explanation just yet with discussion of Frank, so we will ignore Donnie’s survival or death for the moment. As the timeline proceeds along this altered path, it eventually reaches the same moment in time that the wormhole opened in. When this happens, a black cloud forms linking the two openings in space (the black cloud can be seen travelling horizontally outside of Donnie’s window when he is driving in much the same way as the engine travels through the sky). Presumably, at this point the parallel timeline collapses. If the engine, which caused the parallel timeline by travelling through a wormhole, remains in the parallel universe when it ends, the destruction of the parallel universe will cause the destruction of the original timeline as well. However, if it is sent instead through another wormhole which links to the point in space and time in the original timeline which corresponds to the October 2 point in the parallel one, the original timeline remains in existence, though it is permanently changed.

Now, that having been laid out, I will move on to discussion of the respective roles of Donnie and Frank in all of this. Donnie is clearly the Living Receiver mentioned in the Philosophy, which states that the Living Receiver has certain powers. These powers are increased strength (burying the axe in the bronze statue’s head), telekenesis (turning off the sprinklers in front of Cunningham’s house when he finds the wallet), mind control (Katie Farmer’s well-timed derailing of the PTA meeting), conjuring of fire (burning down Cunningham’s house), and conjuring water (flooding the school). Note that Donnie displays all of these “powers” while either acting on Frank’s orders or when he is in direct communication with Frank. Of even greater importance is that he does not have these abilities at other points. Proof of this can be found in Donnie’s inability to throw off his assailant at the end of the film (hardly a display of the super human strength evidenced in using the axe on the statue). Note also that Frank is in direct communication with Donnie when the engine is sent through the wormhole at the end of the film. Though the Philosophy suggests the Receiver’s job is responsible for sending the engine back in time, it is clear that Donnie is dependent on Frank for the ability to do so. The Philosophy suggests that Frank becomes a Manipulated Dead when he is killed in the Tangent Universe. This is impossible. Frank must be killed by Donnie to become a Manipulated Dead. Donnie must be saved by Frank as a Manipulated Dead to kill Frank. Donnie cannot be saved unless Frank is dead and Frank cannot be dead unless Donnie is saved. If there is some way that this is consistent with logic, I would ask you to patiently explain it to me. If not, I propose the following solution. I believe that Frank was killed by Donnie in the original timeline. Let us look at the alterations Frank made to the timeline: he made Donnie flood the school causing Donnie to have a conversation with Gretchen; he made Donnie burn down Cunningham’s house resulting in the discovery of the kiddie porn dungeon which necessitated Rose Darko’s accompanying the the Sparkle Motion dance team to Los Angeles which allowed Elizabeth Darko to throw a party celebrating her acceptance into Harvard, and he caused Donnie to ask Monnitoff about time travel causing him to discover and read the Philosophy of Time Travel which caused him to go to Roberta Sparrow’s house on October 29. Note that I have not included the discovery of the gun. This discovery occurred when Donnie saw the time projection. I maintain that these projections simply show what a conscious entity will decide to do by predestination in the original timeline, cannot be manipulated in any important way by Frank, and Donnie’s knowledge of this path ensured that he do what he would have in the original on a whim (his psyche was affected, no doubt, by what had happened to him already, thus necessitating this ensurance). I am aware this partially contradicts the Philosophy, but I can think of no other way to resolve the paradox. The flooding of the school and the burning down of Cunningham’s house may have been performed by Donnie in the original timeline also; it will be remembered that Donnie is emotionally screwed up and may have been suffering from hallucinations and sleepwalking as a result of his medication, greatly increasing the likelihood that his feelings toward Cunningham and the school would have led to radical action. The axe in the bronze statue’s head is unimportant. The business with the Philosophy is also unimportant. Donnie may have gone to Sparrow’s house with his friends anyway; they were obviously intrigued by “Grandma Death” and were clearly in a mischivious mood that evening. The dead Frank from the original timeline may have wished to engineer his death in the parallel timeline as well. Or, perhaps, God elected to use the dead Frank (presumably the dead gain free movement in both space and time, though the reason is unclear) to morbidly play out Donnie’s horrible fate one last time before it is wiped from existence forever. I think I will return to the subject of God’s relationship with Donnie later.

For now, I will talk briefly of Roberta Sparrow herself. Her pacing in front of the mailbox allows her to cause Gretchen’s death and to tell Donnie that “Every living creature dies alone.” Her writing of the Philosophy suggests that she experienced a revelation in 1944 which made her aware both of the time structure as a whole and of the events which would transpire in 1988. Why she was given this revelation is unclear, but she recognized the importance of standing there at those points. It should be noted that both of them cause Donnie severe emotional distress.

I believe that God opened the wormhole as a way of “cheating” or “editing” the original timeline. Why God wished to make this particular alteration, killing Donnie on October 2, is not clear to me. It is clear, however, that the alteration is imperfect. The people, presumably through their dreams, remember what was supposed to happen. Donnie, perhaps, finds this exhilerating because he realizes that, despite dying alone, that particular death for Gretchen has been avoided. He also may find some amount of satisfaction in committing suicide. His smile at Gretchen when the world is “ending” may simply be that of someone in despair who finds happiness and salvation in suicide. His laughter may be similar. I do not understand, though, why God is so particularly interested in Donnie, nor do I fully understand why Roberta Sparrow became so obsessed with maintaining what seems to be the original timeline.

I hope that the above is coherent. It may be incorrect and I am open to criticism. As a final note, I would like to ask about the dates and times located on the official site, particularly the one that takes place in 1992. Could someone go over them and their significance?

I have to agree with this. I’m not religious, so I don’t have a firm grasp of the Bible, but isn’t God notorious for doing this?

Aren’t there a few different occasions where God chose to work through someone, rather than do it himself?

Then again, maybe I’m also bring in elements of The Stand, where God has sort of a spiritual quest for some of the characters.

Friggin’ lazy, “can’t do it himself” God. :smiley:

[QUOTE=Stoid]
Anyone?[/QUOTE
Wake up everyone and stop being so concrete and literal. Donnie Darko is a story about truth. Truth which exists, not as a collection of facts, ratified by a social norm that can be explain by a psychiatric diagnosis, more a truth which existed by a sense of threat that Donnie experienced about the fragility of his human relationships. His mum, his sister and her boyfriend, his father but importantly his girlfriend to be.

The film exists in the ‘transliminal’ (look it up) state of Donnie’s perception. He is an adolescant sensitive to subtle nuance’s of interpersonal interaction, that lead him to be feel under threat. The power of that threat coupled with sexual desire ileads Donnie to experience what we see as premonitions. They are Donnies thoughts. None of it happens and all of it is a lie. Threat is one of the most powerful distorters in life. Think about, who feels threatened because someone else is something other than we are not. More clever, pretty, sexy, rich etc etc.

Donnie fears that the sky will fall down. It does.

[QUOTE=thecornishirishman]

[QUOTE=Stoid]
Anyone?
[/QUOTE
Wake up everyone and stop being so concrete and literal. Donnie Darko is a story about truth. Truth which exists, not as a collection of facts, ratified by a social norm that can be explain by a psychiatric diagnosis, more a truth which existed by a sense of threat that Donnie experienced about the fragility of his human relationships. His mum, his sister and her boyfriend, his father but importantly his girlfriend to be.

The film exists in the ‘transliminal’ (look it up) state of Donnie’s perception. He is an adolescant sensitive to subtle nuance’s of interpersonal interaction, that lead him to be feel under threat. The power of that threat coupled with sexual desire ileads Donnie to experience what we see as premonitions. They are Donnies thoughts. None of it happens and all of it is a lie. Threat is one of the most powerful distorters in life. Think about, who feels threatened because someone else is something other than we are not. More clever, pretty, sexy, rich etc etc.

Donnie fears that the sky will fall down. It does.[/QUOTE]

That’s like an anti-explanation. It makes even less sense than what it seeks to explain.