# Can anyone explain Marxism in the most simplistic terms possible?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [March 1, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923 "2015-03-01T12:20:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/21 "2015-03-01T18:27:12Z")
> [@Musicat](#):
>
> This is in the realm of IMHO, but I think that what Marx did not foresee was change, in spite of dialectical materialism, which says that “everything changes.” Instead of workers becoming dissatisfied with their lot, rising up and executing their “masters” in many countries, the workers were able to negotiate better conditions, and the “masters” were flexible enough to make changes, at least in the US. We had more of a negoiation than a clash.
>
> _Not that it wasn’t without violence and bloodshed._ But it wasn’t a revolution in the Marxian sense, it was an evolution in the economic sense, and might have happened if Marx never existed.
>
> Also IMHO, Marxism/Communism has been a convenient excuse for dictators to justify their control. Think Lenin, Stalin, Castro, and others. Instead of invoking a supernatural being, i.e., “God,” the often-ruthless dictators invoked a political theory that was attractive to the “have-nots,” which incorporated religious aspects.
Marx did not say revolution was the only way forward; he was cautiously optimistic, for example, that English workers could make changes without revolution. He pointed to the 10 Hour Day legislation as an example. And he was pretty clear after 1848-9 that “revolution” would not look like those uprisings. He had very little to say about what the revolution and socialism would look like. Agree that “Marxism” has been used as mysticism by many. I fear there may no idea that cannot be twisted and used for ill.
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### Author:  [@Bert\_Nobbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bert_Nobbins)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/22 "2015-03-01T18:31:12Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#):
>
> His book Capital may be read as a way for workers to rethink capitalism in the face of all of its defenders. It also has a reference to oral sex. 🆒
You are going to tell us where, I hope?
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/23 "2015-03-01T18:33:02Z")
Nor did Marx suggest socialism would solve everything. He did argue that capitalism was an incredibly productive system. It meant that we had effectively solved the problem of scarcity. Now we could work on the problem of distribution to ensure everyone could have a decent life, which meant the full opportunity to develop our human potential. He also suggested that the class that benefits so immensely from the present arrangement would be reluctant to change it and so would likely have to be forced to give up their wealth and control. That would be the starting point, not the end point, of human development.
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/24 "2015-03-01T18:36:51Z")
> [@Bert\_Nobbins](#):
>
> You are going to tell us where, I hope?
If I told you, you wouldn’t learn, but if you look it up yourself…:rolleyes:
Hint: it’s in Chapter 27 of Volume 1, “The expropriation of the agricultural population from the land.”
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/25 "2015-03-01T18:55:23Z")
**Kropotkin,** you don’t work for TPC, do you? 🙂
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### Author:  [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/26 "2015-03-01T18:57:21Z")
Another aspect:
Marx would of been puzzled by our obsession with the latest model of the Iphone, having a closet with 20 pairs of shoes or two wide screens,one for the den, one for the bedroom. In the middle 1800’s such comfort driven consumer items were more rare than they are today. He thought once your basic needs were met, you’d want a few items for comfort, but he honestly thought that beyond that, the demand in the market would not support such lavish tastes of the average person.
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/27 "2015-03-01T20:11:46Z")
> [@Musicat](#):
>
> **Kropotkin,** you don’t work for TPC, do you? 🙂
I’m afraid I don’t know what the TPC is.😕 but I do like these smileys!
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/28 "2015-03-01T20:14:03Z")
> [@Robert163](#):
>
> Another aspect:
>
> Marx would of been puzzled by our obsession with the latest model of the Iphone, having a closet with 20 pairs of shoes or two wide screens,one for the den, one for the bedroom. In the middle 1800’s such comfort driven consumer items were more rare than they are today. He thought once your basic needs were met, you’d want a few items for comfort, but he honestly thought that beyond that, the demand in the market would not support such lavish tastes of the average person.
Though he did understand that human needs (and nature) were not static, and that desires could become needs. He might also see such consumerism as a sign of alienation: unable to meet our real needs, we distract ourselves with consumption.
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/29 "2015-03-01T20:18:13Z")
> [@Robert163](#):
>
> Another aspect:
>
> Marx would of been puzzled by our obsession with the latest model of the Iphone, having a closet with 20 pairs of shoes or two wide screens,one for the den, one for the bedroom. In the middle 1800’s such comfort driven consumer items were more rare than they are today. He thought once your basic needs were met, you’d want a few items for comfort, but he honestly thought that beyond that, the demand in the market would not support such lavish tastes of the average person.
Though he did understand that human needs (and nature) were not static, and that desires could become needs. He might also see such consumerism as a sign of alienation: unable to meet our real needs, we distract ourselves with consumption. But it’s just a theory.
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/30 "2015-03-01T20:19:16Z")
Sorry, accidental double post. All this is making my head hurt.☹
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/31 "2015-03-01T20:51:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> For example, in Canada there are two Communist parties: the Communist Party of Canada, and the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist).
Judean People’s Front…:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/32 "2015-03-01T21:02:05Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> Judean People’s Front…:rolleyes:
As John Sayles put it in his short story, “At the Anarchist Convention,” it’s “not divide and conquer, but divide and subdivide!” If it was easy, we’d all be working 2 hours a day and living the good life by now.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/33 "2015-03-01T21:02:30Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#):
>
> Though he did understand that human needs (and nature) were not static, and that desires could become needs. He might also see such consumerism as a sign of alienation: unable to meet our real needs, we distract ourselves with consumption. But it’s just a theory.
I think Marx would be more likely to say it was an example of how the capitalists are exploiting the workers. Having sold the workers all the products they need, the capitalists are maintaining their income by creating an illusory need among the workers that they need to buy more stuff.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/34 "2015-03-01T21:20:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> For example, in Canada there are two Communist parties: the Communist Party of Canada, and the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist).
That split specifically was over China. When the Soviet and Chinese governments split, the Maoist faction in the Communist Party formed the Marxist-Leninist group.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/35 "2015-03-01T22:09:08Z")
That matches the impression I had from seeing them at tables in the halls in universities. The CPC seemed much closer to the USSR to a casual observer, while the CPC(M-L) talked much more about anti-imperialsm.
Both had some of the most turgid propaganda imaginable, but I always thought the CPC(M-L) was the worse of the two.
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### Author:  [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/36 "2015-03-01T22:23:48Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#):
>
> If I told you, you wouldn’t learn, but if you look it up yourself…:rolleyes:
>
> Hint: it’s in Chapter 27 of Volume 1, “The expropriation of the agricultural population from the land.”
I’m going crazy here.
Is it
> [@](#):
>
> British soldiers enforced this eviction, and came to blows with the inhabitants.
or
> [@](#):
>
> The smell of their fish rose to the noses of the great men.
or the Thomas More quote in the footnotes:
> [@](#):
>
> “Your shepe that were wont to be so meke and tame, and so smal eaters, now, as I heare saye, be become so great devourers and so wylde that they eate up, and swallow downe, the very men themselfes.”
???
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### Author:  [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/37 "2015-03-01T22:30:45Z")
…and here, the thread disintegrates from an edifyng, intellectual pursuit to adolescent erotica. (Not saying that’s a _bad_ thing, but still…)
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/38 "2015-03-01T22:43:57Z")
> [@CC](#):
>
> …and here, the thread disintegrates from an edifyng, intellectual pursuit to adolescent erotica. (Not saying that’s a _bad_ thing, but still…)
Can we combine the two in dialectical fashion? Conflict leading to a new synthesis?
P. 884 of the Penguin edition, footnote 12, Marx quotes from a manuscript, “The large grant of lands in Ireland to Lady Orkney, in 1695, is a public instance of the king’s affection, and the lady’s influence…Lady Orkney’s endearing offices are supposed to have been foeda labiorum ministeria.”
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/39 "2015-03-01T22:47:56Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#):
>
> foeda labiorum ministeria."
IF you know what I mean and I think you do.
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### Author:  [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-marxism-in-the-most-simplistic-terms-possible/713923/40 "2015-03-01T22:48:00Z")
I TOLD you it was safe for work. Unless you teach Latin or copy medieval manuscripts or hold Mass.
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