# Can anyone explain the government shutdown to me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994 "2013-09-30T12:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/41 "2013-10-01T11:06:26Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > I honestly think a Republican has the best chance at the WH if they will keeping beating the drums to do repeal it. Mitt Romney: “If elected, I will repeal Obamacare on day one.” No further comment. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/42 "2013-10-01T11:07:00Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > Warren Buffet who actually was behind Obama on backing higher taxes on the rich and an early Obama supporter is saying we need to [scrap Obamacare and start over.](http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/warren-buffett-scrap-obamacare-and-start-over_756302.html) It’s the average citizen he says that is going to be hurt the most. He says we need a plan that attacks the costs first, then worry about expanding the coverage. Let’s not publicize that distortion any more - taken from an interview 3.5 years ago and published as it it were a recent statement. [Here’s what Buffett says about it.](http://www.omaha.com/article/20130917/MONEY/130918814/1707) ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/43 "2013-10-01T11:12:13Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Mitt Romney: “If elected, I will repeal Obamacare on day one.” > > No further comment. That was still before many really fully understood its effects. Actually, many still don’t, but what they do understand isn’t good and why most Americans are not behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/44 "2013-10-01T11:13:47Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Let’s not publicize that distortion any more - taken from an interview 3.5 years ago and published as it it were a recent statement. [Here’s what Buffett says about it.](http://www.omaha.com/article/20130917/MONEY/130918814/1707) Thanks for that link, I wasn’t aware of it, and have seen other links like I used stating the same thing, but should have done some more homework. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/45 "2013-10-01T11:24:13Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > That was still before many really fully understood its effects. Actually, many still don’t, but what they do understand isn’t good and why most Americans are not behind it. Nonsense. The people who oppose it now opposed it then. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/46 "2013-10-01T11:28:01Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > That was still before many really fully understood its effects. Actually, many still don’t, but what they do understand isn’t good and why most Americans are not behind it. Most Americans support the benefits of Obamacare: > [@](#): > > 61 percent of respondents favored allowing young adults to stay on their parents’ insurance plans until age 26. > > 72 percent of respondents wish to maintain the requirement that companies with more than 50 workers provide health insurance for their employees. > > 82 percent of respondents favored banning insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. [http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/25/505526/poll-most-americans-support-obamacare-provisions/](http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/25/505526/poll-most-americans-support-obamacare-provisions/) ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/47 "2013-10-01T11:37:28Z")
^ That would be relevant if the USA was a representative democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/48 "2013-10-01T11:44:47Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Nonsense. The people who oppose it now opposed it then. A [NBC/WSJ recent poll](http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/15/20506193-poll-obamacare-remains-highly-unpopular-as-implementation-looms?lite) show 44% think Obamacare is a bad idea while only 31% think it is a good idea. By a 45% to 23% margin, most think it is going to have a negative impact on our country’s healthcare system. Do you remember seeing those numbers a few years ago? While I’m sure that that majority that opposed it before probably still do, it certainly has had others change their mind that were once for it, or at least at the time, they thought it was a good idea for them, but now have changed their mind. I being one of them. I voted for Obama twice. I also thought that somehow it was really going to be more affordable to me. Now that I understand what the costs are going to be to me, I certainly don’t want any part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/49 "2013-10-01T11:44:53Z")
Just wanted to add, most federal emmployees just want to do their jobs - and we have plenty of work to do. Folk are required to report today, and have 4 hours to wrap things up. After that, 12 of us exceptional excepted folk are supposed to do the work of our 65-person office. Yeah - that’s going to go well. Then whenever our coworkers are allowed to come back to work, they will gleefully get to dig into the backlog that has accumulated. Fun times! ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/50 "2013-10-01T11:46:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Most Americans support the benefits of Obamacare: [http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/25/505526/poll-most-americans-support-obamacare-provisions/](http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/25/505526/poll-most-americans-support-obamacare-provisions/) That poll was over a year ago. Some of those things I imagine they still support, but most are seeing a negative impact than positive one for much of the other parts of it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/51 "2013-10-01T11:48:28Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > That was still before many really fully understood its effects. Actually, many still don’t, but what they do understand isn’t good and why most Americans are not behind it. This is pretty much the opposite of the truth. The stuff people do understand about the ACA they love. This shutting down the government thing will work just as well for the GOP as it did last time. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/52 "2013-10-01T11:51:04Z")
Which other parts, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/53 "2013-10-01T12:02:52Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > A [NBC/WSJ recent poll](http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/15/20506193-poll-obamacare-remains-highly-unpopular-as-implementation-looms?lite) show 44% think Obamacare is a bad idea while only 31% think it is a good idea. 44% is neither “most” nor a “majority”. And, frankly, I’m one of the 44%. I think health care reform didn’t go nearly far enough. I strongly support a single-payer plan. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/54 "2013-10-01T12:20:36Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > 44% is neither “most” nor a “majority”. And, frankly, I’m one of the 44%. I think health care reform didn’t go nearly far enough. I strongly support a single-payer plan. What I’m hoping will happen is that people find out that letting the insurance companies make profits off the backs of both consumers and health care providers in the name of “Universal Coverage” means that consumers and health care providers will suffer. The insurance companies won’t. And Congress will suddenly find itself flooded with campaign contributions so that the insurance companies can continue to reap profits on our backs. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/55 "2013-10-01T12:46:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Most Americans support the benefits of Obamacare That’s irrelevant, though, right? As your cite helpfully adds, most Americans – 61% – also oppose the individual mandate. So the question isn’t whether they support the benefits, but whether they support the benefits more than they oppose the mandate; as per your cite, most Americans – 56% – apparently don’t. I mean, if you ask me whether I’d like a can of Pepsi, I’d probably say yes. If you tell me I’ll have to pay for it, I’d probably say _“I’d rather get it for free.”_ If you tell me the price is five cents, I’ll say the good outweighs the bad and pay up. If you tell me the price is five dollars, I’ll say the bad outweighs the good and refuse. Whether I like Pepsi is completely irrelevant; how much I like Pepsi is kinda sorta the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/56 "2013-10-01T12:49:25Z")
I’m just trying to determine if there are any parts of Obamacare that people dislike besides the individual mandate. Because I am all for keeping all the benefits and repealing the individual mandate. Yes, I know what would happen. I am in favor of that. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/57 "2013-10-01T13:13:49Z")
Well [here’s Slate’s take on it](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2013/09/30/potential_government_shutdown_how_would_the_u_s_media_report_on_it_if_it.html), “using the tropes and tone normally employed by the American media to describe events in other countries.” > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, United States—The typical signs of state failure aren’t evident on the streets of this sleepy capital city. Beret-wearing colonels have not yet taken to the airwaves to declare martial law. Money-changers are not yet buying stacks of useless greenbacks on the street. It was worth a chuckle. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/58 "2013-10-01T13:42:39Z")
Why are you arguing about how old snapshot polls are, whether they’re accurate, etc - didn’t Obama get relected in the wake of his healthcare plan? He has a mandate from the electorate - arrived at after years of campaigning - that’s how democracy works, right? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/59 "2013-10-01T13:57:32Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > A [NBC/WSJ recent poll](http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/15/20506193-poll-obamacare-remains-highly-unpopular-as-implementation-looms?lite) show 44% think Obamacare is a bad idea while only 31% think it is a good idea. By a 45% to 23% margin, most think it is going to have a negative impact on our country’s healthcare system. Do you remember seeing those numbers a few years ago? > > While I’m sure that that majority that opposed it before probably still do, it certainly has had others change their mind that were once for it, or at least at the time, they thought it was a good idea for them, but now have changed their mind. I being one of them. I voted for Obama twice. I also thought that somehow it was really going to be more affordable to me. Now that I understand what the costs are going to be to me, I certainly don’t want any part of it. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Most Americans support the benefits of Obamacare: [http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/25/505526/poll-most-americans-support-obamacare-provisions/](http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/25/505526/poll-most-americans-support-obamacare-provisions/) I would propose from this that most Americans do not understand what Obamacare is. This is not an unreasonable thought, I think. Even moreso, they don’t understand why it matters. They don’t understand why the individual mandate is necessary, and they don’t understand the bill as a whole. The far more telling poll will be the one after Obamacare is implemented, because at that point, we’ll be going on more than _stupid ignorant propaganda_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994/60 "2013-10-01T14:02:59Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Why are you arguing about how old snapshot polls are, whether they’re accurate, etc - didn’t Obama get relected in the wake of his healthcare plan? > > He has a mandate from the electorate - arrived at after years of campaigning - that’s how democracy works, right? And the Congressmen presumably have their own mandates, sure as none of those elections were single-issue plebiscites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-explain-the-government-shutdown-to-me/669994.md?page=4)