# Can anyone give me a scenario under which Gore is our next president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2000, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398 "2000-12-06T22:53:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/81 "2000-12-09T23:40:59Z")
> [@](#): > > However, it was more than a missing postmark- if the postmark was missing all they had to have was a dated signature- and without same HAD to be tossed out. Ferkrissake, there is enuf hypocracy on both sides here without folks like you making up stuff to add to it. I don’t make stuff up. And, Dan, please. If you want to be taken seriously, you simply must quit using Prince-inspired spelling rules. It makes u look 2 silly for wordz. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/82 "2000-12-10T03:11:22Z")
Umm, pundit; “enuf”, “tho” and such like date from some 100 yearr ago, or more, during one of the many attempts at “cleaning up” english spelling. “Tho” dates back some hundreds of years, and is accepted by Oxford as a “var.”, altho I will admit that “enuf” is a “colloq.” They are not, then misspellings so much as 'eccentricities"- altho mind you I do have more than my share of typos. However, show me where a vote was tossed out simply because it had no postmark. If they had no postmark, they were accepted- if they had a dated signature. Milo: and this then is GORES fault, why? The guy who filed the suit has nothing to do with Gore. The dude who bankrolled the suit is in no way a part of the Gore campaign team, altho he is a big Gore supporter, no surprise. And he “talked to one of Gores Attorneys”- so what? Hell, so has Bush. You can to, if you want to waste some hour on the phine. Show me where that Gore attorney, on orders from the Gore campaingn, advised either to file. Maybe he advised them NOT to file. And folks don’t 'advise" lawyers, lawyers advise others- unless the dude advised them how to clean their mouse balls. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/83 "2000-12-10T20:25:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Wring: > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. Numbers of minority voters were stopped by police blockades in front of the polling places > > Gotta a cite for this ridiculous accusation? And no, anything Jesse Jackson says does not count. 🙂 \*\* I’d stepped out of these threads for a while, but since you specifically challenged me on **fact** , why, yes, as a matter of fact, I do have a cite: [http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/07/latimes.blacks/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/07/latimes.blacks/index.html) Note the date. THere have been subsequent stories about it, but this was the first. The Justice Department has stated that they will investigate, as is the Civil Rights Bureau, IIRC. Yes, it’s an allegation. But, in this case, the allegation was made to authorities and is being investigated. “The black lawmakers cataloged election situations they say impeded minority voters: unhelpful poll workers, confusing ballot directions, precinct changes, \*\*roadblocks in front of polling places \*\*and an abundance of older voting machines…in black neighborhoods” emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/84 "2000-12-10T21:23:12Z")
Since another thread just for this would get me lynched… Wring, you have reminded me, and given me a place, to post this interesting bit of information: (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > \*Quote from [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) article \* > > Dec. 4, 2000 | If Vice President Al Gore is wondering where his Florida votes went, rather than sift through a pile of chad, he might want to look at a “scrub list” of 173,000 names knocked off the Florida voter registry by a division of the office of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris. A close examination suggests thousands of voters may have lost their right to vote based on a flaw-ridden list of purported “felons” provided by a private firm with tight Republican ties. > > Early in the year, the company, ChoicePoint, gave Florida officials a list with the names of 8,000 ex-felons to “scrub” from their list of voters. But it turns out none on the list were guilty of felonies, only misdemeanors. The company acknowledged the error, and blamed it on the original source of the list --\*\* the state of Texas \*\* > > … > > In the process, however, \*\* the list invariably targets a minority population in Florida, where 31 percent of all black men cannot vote because of a ban on felons \*\* . In compiling a list by looking at felons from other states, Florida could, in the process, single out citizens who committed felons in other states but, after serving their time or successfully petitioning the courts, had their voting rights returned to them. According to Florida law, felons can vote once their voting rights have been reinstated. > > And if this unfairly singled out minorities, it unfairly handicapped Gore: In Florida, 93 percent of African Americans voted for the vice president. Here’s the link, the article is 4 pages long: [http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter\_file/index.html](http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/index.html) I’m sure the fact that Texas was involved was just a wacky coincidence, in the same wacky way that Bush’s brother is the governor of the state where this whole thing fell apart. Wacky coincidence after wacky coincidence! This election is rutning into a regular “Ripley’s Believe It or Not!” item, isn’t it? stoid ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/85 "2000-12-10T21:42:42Z")
Yes it IS just an allegation, I’ll wait for the facts. Plus, one must consider the source. Jesse Jackson talking about picking cotton, 135 years after the Civil War, is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/86 "2000-12-10T21:54:09Z")
Dan, re the military votes, note that I said the Gore team ATTEMPTED to have these votes discounted. Most counties eventually acquiesced and counted them after pressure from various groups. However, my point remains that “Every Vote Must Count!” Gore came across as being very hypocratical\*. Re the postmark: “Friday night, as the overseas absentee ballots were counted, Bush and Gore forces locked into another round of frenzied warfare–claims of recount fraud in the disputed counties and hard questions about 1,000 overseas ballots, most of them from members of the armed forces, \*\* that were rejected mainly because they had not been postmarked. \*\* Democrats had mounted a coordinated challenge against the military ballots because they would probably lean toward Bush.” -Eric Pooley, “Prime Time Battle,” Time Magazine, 11/27/2000, Vol. 156, No. 22. (Emphasis mine.) \*Hypocratical being an accepted variation of the word “hypocritical” in some Lebanese villages. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/87 "2000-12-10T22:21:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Yes it IS just an allegation, I’ll wait for the facts. Plus, one must consider the source. Jesse Jackson talking about picking cotton, 135 years after the Civil War, is absurd. \*\* Please look again. While Mr. Jackson was at a rally, the allegations came on the **day of the election** by voters in the districts. Police blockades around polling places are not a matter of “spin” they either happened or they didn’t. either way, it’d be a very easy thing to disprove. THe other thing to note, please, is that these allegations were not simply made at a pulpit, to a microphone, to the reporters. They are complaints filed with the Justice Department. Now, it may not mean anything to you, but anyone can make an allegation to a reporter, and it won’t necessiarily mean much. However, to file a complaint with an investigating agency, and to have the investigating agency start an investigation, well, there’s more substance to the words. here’s some more: [http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/election\_blackvote001203.html](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/election_blackvote001203.html) [http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/dailynews/election\_race001208.html](http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/dailynews/election_race001208.html) [http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/dailynews/election\_blackvoters001129.html](http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/dailynews/election_blackvoters001129.html) I made the statement, you said it was frivolous and asked for cites, I’ve now linked several newsreports detailing that the allegations were made the day of the elections. Your stance now that I’ve substantiated my statement is “oh, well, I don’t believe it, I’ll wait til proof”. Fine by me. I’ve upheld my burden, you’re free to continue to ignore even the remotes possabilty that nasty stuff went on. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/88 "2000-12-10T22:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\*Dan, re the military votes, note that I said the Gore team ATTEMPTED to have these votes discounted. > Re the postmark: > > “Friday night, as the overseas absentee ballots were counted, Bush and Gore forces locked into another round of frenzied warfare–claims of recount fraud in the disputed counties and hard questions about 1,000 overseas ballots, most of them from members of the armed forces, \*\* that were rejected mainly because they had not been postmarked. \*\* Democrats had mounted a coordinated challenge against the military ballots because they would probably lean toward Bush.” -Eric Pooley, “Prime Time Battle,” Time Magazine, 11/27/2000, Vol. 156, No. 22. > > \*Hypocratical. \*\* Sigh. Again, never did the “GORE TEAM” attempt to discredit any of the “military ballots”. Find one action of one official Gore Team member- one- that was in favor of discrediting these votes. And, yes, the ballots were initially discredited because of no postmarks- so they could then check them for signatures with dates. No vote was discredited simply because of lack of postmark. No “attempt” was made by any member of the official Gore team t discredit these votes. You have made a completely incorrect representaion of the facts- now back it up or back down. Does the term “typo” mean anything to you? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2000, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/89 "2000-12-11T13:34:22Z")
Dan, first of all I’ve already proven that I don’t make stuff up, which is what you accused me of. If you choose not to believe that Gore’s team tried to suppress the military vote, despite evidence to the contrary, that’s your prerogative. I’d search for a reference to the infamous “5 page memo” by Gore’s team which outlined their strategy for challenging the military votes, but what would be the point? I mean, I’m arguing with a man who is trying to claim that “hypocracy” is a typo\*. Does the word “irony” mean anything to you? \*Hint: “A” is typed with your left hand; “I” is typed with your right. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2000, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/90 "2000-12-11T22:48:09Z")
[Appeals court refuses to throw out 2,400 disputed military ballots.](http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/12/11/recount.military.ap) So the argument is now moot. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2000, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/91 "2000-12-11T23:15:17Z")
Wring, Having read through your links, I still don’t see even allegations that any “nasty stuff” went on. Like what? A polling place was moved? Somebody’s name was misspelled? People were confused? Not having voting instructions in Creole? Nasty stuff, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/92 "2000-12-12T14:58:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > I mean, I’m arguing with a man who is trying to claim that “hypocracy” is a typo_. Check your dictionary. The word for insincerity or double standard is “hypocrisy” (Greek hypo-, low; -crisy, belief). If “hypocracy” were a word, it would mean “government by the low” (which isn’t far from your meaning anyway, really). ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/93 "2000-12-13T16:39:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*Wring, > > Having read through your links, I still don’t see even allegations that any “nasty stuff” went on. Like what? > > A polling place was moved? > Somebody’s name was misspelled? > People were confused? > Not having voting instructions in Creole? > Nasty stuff, indeed. > \*\* Let me help you out: polling place was moved, and the voter states she wasn’t notified, so when she went to vote, no one was there, no way to determine the correct place to vote, so she couldn’t vote. Some one’s name was misspelled - and the voter, legally registered and at the correct place was not allowed to vote. People were confused, **asked** the poll workers for help (as is their job), help was refused. Voting instructions not in another language (same as asking for help) You missed the big one - the police check points in front of the polling places demanding positive proof of ID. And, that some minority voters were asked to provide more ID than other voters. Remember the “equal protection” clause??? But, your guy has been declared the winner of this. We shall see how vigorously the Dept of Civil Rights and Dept of Justice look into these charges (the investigations have begun). ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/94 "2000-12-13T19:08:49Z")
Ladies and gentlemen, Elvis has left the building. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/95 "2000-12-13T19:20:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **You missed the big one - the police check points in front of the polling places demanding positive proof of ID.** From everything I’ve read, “the big one” amounted to nothing more than a routine driver check point **two miles** from the nearest polling place. Can you link up to any evidence that shows otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/96 "2000-12-13T19:29:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > > **You missed the big one - the police check points in front of the polling places demanding positive proof of ID.** > > From everything I’ve read, “the big one” amounted to nothing more than a routine driver check point **two miles** from the nearest polling place. Can you link up to any evidence that shows otherwise? \*\* Where’s your link to say that it was two miles away? and “routine” driver check point??? on election day? Routine for what? AFAIK, ain’t no such animal as a “routine” driver check point - now, there’s been some authorization for drunk driving check points, and for specific road blocks right after a crime, but I’ve **never heard** (would like to see your proof) that anywhere, police are allowed to set up a road block to simply check ID’s. As a matter of fact the SCOTUS just tossed out ‘routine’ drug sniffing in high crime neighborhoods. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398/97 "2000-12-13T20:06:00Z")
Wring, Does your response mean that you are unfamiliar with the case? If you have additional details please provide them. Here’s a start, from [Reuters](http://cache.voter.com/home/news/article/0,1175,2-16569-,00.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-give-me-a-scenario-under-which-gore-is-our-next-president/44398.md?page=4)