# Can anyone Identify the planes flying in formation with this B-17 Flying Fortress? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 3, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672 "2017-08-03T04:37:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SHARKBITEATTACK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@SHARKBITEATTACK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SHARKBITEATTACK)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/1 "2017-08-03T04:37:36Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2YpRJdF9r44/maxresdefault.jpg "B-17 Flying in Formation with Yaks") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YpRJdF9r44) ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/2 "2017-08-03T04:55:49Z")
Is it just me, or is the first three quarters of that video super low res? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/3 "2017-08-03T08:43:20Z")
Looks like several are P-51 Mustangs. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/4 "2017-08-03T08:54:07Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Looks like several are P-51 Mustangs. I don’t see any P-51s, no radiator inlet on the bottom and the wheels are still exposed. And the planes in the video look like they’re radial engined. My first thought was T-6s, but the wings and wheels aren’t right for that, either. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/5 "2017-08-03T10:33:34Z")
They’re not all the same, but I think some of them _are_ T-6s. It would be a surprise if they weren’t. I’ve been to dozens of airshows, and IME Texans are by far the most common WWII warbirds still flying. They’re often painted to look like Zeros or other Axis aircraft. I thought the first silver plane on the Flying Fortress’ left could be a [Curtis SB2C Helldiver](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_SB2C_Helldiver), but apparently there’s only one still flying (the CAF owns it) and it has a different paint scheme. If we can find out what airshow that is, there should be no problem finding out exactly what every plane in that flight is. The B-17 is _[Yankee Lady](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Lady)_, BTW. That might help narrow things down a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/6 "2017-08-03T12:00:58Z")
Looks like a mix of [Nanchang CJ-6’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanchang_CJ-6) and [Yak-52’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52)s. There is a a T-6 Texan toward the back.[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] I think the two-tone blue aircraft with the wing-tip tanks is a [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][SIAI-Marchetti SF.260](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIAI-Marchetti_SF.260)[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/7 "2017-08-03T12:18:08Z")
The Yankee Lady is a regular at the Thunder over Michigan, which regularly has a vast list of rare WW II war birds. Here’s the list for September 2017 [http://yankeeairmuseum.org/airshow/aircraft-list.php](http://yankeeairmuseum.org/airshow/aircraft-list.php) Is this a dorothy dixer ? Asking a question just to advertise the answer ? Here’s a clip of the arrivals of last years craft. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wHY60vD145w/maxresdefault.jpg "2016 Thunder over Michigan- Aircraft arrivals") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHY60vD145w) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/8 "2017-08-03T12:28:46Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Is it just me, or is the first three quarters of that video super low res? Just you. Youtube will adjust the resolution depending on your connection speed. Click the gear icon, you’ll get all the available resolutions including an “auto” option. Mark the res. you want to keep the video at. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/9 "2017-08-03T17:06:20Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > Looks like a mix of [Nanchang CJ-6’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanchang_CJ-6) and [Yak-52’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52)s. There is a a T-6 Texan toward the back.[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] I think the two-tone blue aircraft with the wing-tip tanks is a [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][SIAI-Marchetti SF.260](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIAI-Marchetti_SF.260)[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] Agreed. IMO you’re definitely right about the SF.260 and the YAK-52. Of course out in the world today there are a bunch of replicas of various Japanese WWII airplanes which are really T-6s with cosmetic surgery. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/10 "2017-08-03T17:15:32Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I’ve been to dozens of airshows, and IME Texans are by far the most common WWII warbirds still flying. I wonder if the army would be more likely to sell trainers to private citizens than P-38s after the war? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/11 "2017-08-03T17:21:53Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > Looks like a mix of [Nanchang CJ-6’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanchang_CJ-6) and [Yak-52’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-52)s. There is a a T-6 Texan toward the back.[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] I think the two-tone blue aircraft with the wing-tip tanks is a [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][SIAI-Marchetti SF.260](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIAI-Marchetti_SF.260)[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] It’s a good thing I read before posting, as this is the answer I would have given. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/12 "2017-08-03T17:32:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder if the army would be more likely to sell trainers to private citizens than P-38s after the war? My dad told me that he could have bought a Corsair after the war for $500. (Not that 18-year-old Dad would have had $500.) He said he’d thought about it, and then decided ‘What would I do with a Corsair?’ He later became Combat Aircrew, a private pilot, and had a second career in the FAA. _Then_ he wished he’d bought one! (When I was in high school, I practically begged him to buy a surplus T-34 for $5,000. He didn’t. Dammit.) There was an expectation after the war that there would be a boom in General Aviation. It didn’t happen, though GA was very popular in the '60s and '70s. Most warplanes were scrapped. Some P-38s, Corsairs, Hellcats, etc. were sold to private individuals and/or companies. Medium bombers, in particular, and heavy bombers seem to have been the popular choice for airborne firefighting. Air racers bought many fighters. I think the reason the cool planes are relatively scarce, and the trainers are relatively abundant, comes down to the cost of ownership and operation. A B-17 would be nice to travel in, but it’s not very practical for going out to get the $100 hamburger. A T-6/SNJ is faster than typical GA aircraft like a Skyhawk or a Cherokee, is a ‘warbird’, looks unique, offers performance and fun, and is not outrageously expensive to operate. ‘Every pilot’ wants a P-51, but no one wants to pay for the gas. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/13 "2017-08-03T17:43:27Z")
I recall some B-25s bought for business transport, and a PBY used as a sort of flying vacation house. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/14 "2017-08-03T18:21:55Z")
I recall the story that after the war the gov’t wanted to get rid of so very many airplanes; far in excess of the civilian desire for them. As Johnny said, most of the war machines were pretty well optimized for that job, which didn’t make for obvious civilian applications for them. As such, the gov’t couldn’t get much of a price for them. The legendary duo of Paul Mantz & Frank Tallman bought a whole gaggle of airplanes from a storage airfield in the southwestern desert. A few each of several types of fighters, and a squadron of B-25s. The gov’t disposal bureau sold each aircraft with a full tank of fuel so the buyer could fly it away. They flew them back to their home base in coastal Southern California, drained the remaining fuel, and sold that for more than they’d paid for the aircraft. That’s right, free airplanes. Supply & demand: it sets the price of everything and the value of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/15 "2017-08-03T19:25:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > My dad told me that he could have bought a Corsair after the war for $500. (Not that 18-year-old Dad would have had $500.) He said he’d thought about it, and then decided ‘What would I do with a Corsair?’ He later became Combat Aircrew, a private pilot, and had a second career in the FAA. _Then_ he wished he’d bought one! (When I was in high school, I practically begged him to buy a surplus T-34 for $5,000. He didn’t. Dammit.) > > There was an expectation after the war that there would be a boom in General Aviation. It didn’t happen, though GA was very popular in the '60s and '70s. Most warplanes were scrapped. Some P-38s, Corsairs, Hellcats, etc. were sold to private individuals and/or companies. Medium bombers, in particular, and heavy bombers seem to have been the popular choice for airborne firefighting. Air racers bought many fighters. I think the reason the cool planes are relatively scarce, and the trainers are relatively abundant, comes down to the cost of ownership and operation. A B-17 would be nice to travel in, but it’s not very practical for going out to get the $100 hamburger. A T-6/SNJ is faster than typical GA aircraft like a Skyhawk or a Cherokee, is a ‘warbird’, looks unique, offers performance and fun, and is not outrageously expensive to operate. ‘Every pilot’ wants a P-51, but no one wants to pay for the gas. Johnny L.A. - this summer the Pac NW lost a legend in a vintage car race. As a 19 year old college student, Chuck Lyford bought P-51 for about $900 from the California Air National Guard. He proceeded to race it for years and it also led to the adventures described in [this story](http://www.flightjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/The-Soccer-War.pdf) (pdf) from Flight Journal magazine. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/16 "2017-08-03T21:52:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder if the army would be more likely to sell trainers to private citizens than P-38s after the war? I’ve always assumed that their prevalence was because trainers weren’t being shot at and, for the most part, all remained here in the U.S. OTOH, combat planes that were deployed and saw action would be less likely to 1) survive and b) find their way back to the States. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/17 "2017-08-04T00:03:08Z")
Use of the term, “formation” is pretty loose in that video. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/18 "2017-08-04T01:20:50Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Just you. Youtube will adjust the resolution depending on your connection speed. > Click the gear icon, you’ll get all the available resolutions including an “auto” option. > Mark the res. you want to keep the video at. Thanks. I had done that to no avail. But it it works for everyone else, then it must have been a localized glitch. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/19 "2017-08-04T01:30:35Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Use of the term, “formation” is pretty loose in that video. 😃 All of the rivets are tucked in nice and close. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2017, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672/20 "2017-08-04T11:42:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > A B-17 would be nice to travel in, but it’s not very practical for going out to get the $100 hamburger. A T-6/SNJ is faster than typical GA aircraft like a Skyhawk or a Cherokee, is a ‘warbird’, looks unique, offers performance and fun, and is not outrageously expensive to operate. ‘Every pilot’ wants a P-51, but no one wants to pay for the gas. I’m a few miles from the airfield where [_Sentimental Journey_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentimental_Journey_(aircraft)) winters over and on select weekends they’ll offer a 45-minute hop for you and eight or nine others. Last time I looked some six years ago it was $450 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-identify-the-planes-flying-in-formation-with-this-b-17-flying-fortress/792672.md?page=2)