# Can anyone make sense of this Polish propaganda poster about the US and EU? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226 "2016-02-05T13:47:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SHARKBITEATTACK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@SHARKBITEATTACK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SHARKBITEATTACK)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/1 "2016-02-05T13:47:47Z")
[![](http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160205/568f6546f72faddbee05606075365700.jpg) ](http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160205/568f6546f72faddbee05606075365700.jpg) I see the grim reaper and that’s not usually a good thing… What’s the message they are trying to convey here? ---
**Author:** ![Cboath11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Cboath11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cboath11)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/2 "2016-02-05T13:58:46Z")
According to Google translate the message translates as “European Union you lose” So since it also includes a depiction of the USA flag I would assume it means Western Civilization loses. Some anti west propoganda. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/3 "2016-02-05T14:14:14Z")
There’s a word missing in the translation. It’s “you choose/elect, you lose.” ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/4 "2016-02-05T14:30:38Z")
> [@Cboath11](#): > > According to Google translate the message translates as “European Union you lose” So since it also includes a depiction of the USA flag I would assume it means Western Civilization loses. Some anti west propoganda. I can’t prove it but my reading is that it suggesting that the European Union will become a “United States of Europe”(a common anti-EU trope) and if you vote to join it it will be the death of Poland as a sovereign state. Obviously a sensitive subject in a country with as short an independent existence as Poland. Not an anti-Western attack as such. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/5 "2016-02-05T15:09:25Z")
Thanks to the EU, Poland is one of Europe’s largest suppliers of the letter “Z”. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/6 "2016-02-05T15:14:36Z")
Is the poster recent, or Cold War Era? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/7 "2016-02-05T16:07:28Z")
A bit of Googling turns up that it’s a campaign by an organisation called National Rebirth of Poland (NOP) which clearly associates itself (and the image) with the “Europe of Free Nations” group, which includes such campaigners for freedom and democracy as the British National Party, the Greek “Golden Dawn” party… [http://en.nop.org.pl/2014/05/20/the-european-union-must-be-destroyed-not-reformed-national-rebirth-of-polands-official-statement-on-the-2014-european-elections/](http://en.nop.org.pl/2014/05/20/the-european-union-must-be-destroyed-not-reformed-national-rebirth-of-polands-official-statement-on-the-2014-european-elections/) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/8 "2016-02-05T16:09:19Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Is the poster recent, or Cold War Era? The Cold War ended by 1991; the European Union formed in 1993. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/9 "2016-02-05T17:00:07Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Obviously a sensitive subject in a country with as short an independent existence as Poland. Just a bit of pedantry that doesn’t detract from your main point - more Poland’s _recent history_ as an occasionally submerged state. Poland ceased to exist as an independent country 1795-1807 and again 1807-1918 ( after briefly being resurrected by Napoleon in the interim ), until emerging again definitively after WW I. Prior to that however it had a generally independent history running back to at least to 960 ( and amorphously/ semi-mythologically as the ‘Polans’ into the late 7th-8th century ). ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/10 "2016-02-05T18:19:12Z")
We are talking ultra-nationalistic racists here. Just take a look around their website. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/11 "2016-02-05T20:36:55Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Just a bit of pedantry that doesn’t detract from your main point - more Poland’s _recent history_ as an occasionally submerged state. Poland ceased to exist as an independent country 1795-1807 and again 1807-1918 ( after briefly being resurrected by Napoleon in the interim ), until emerging again definitively after WW I. Prior to that however it had a generally independent history running back to at least to 960 ( and amorphously/ semi-mythologically as the ‘Polans’ into the late 7th-8th century ). Oh, agreed. I was referring to recent history and Polish sensitivity. You could add that there are Poles who would not see the period 1945-1992 as true independence! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/12 "2016-02-05T22:43:05Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Oh, agreed. I was referring to recent history and Polish sensitivity. You could add that there are Poles who would not see the period 1945-1992 as true independence! I suspect, but do not know, that that would be almost all of them who lived through that era as adults. Maybe a few peasants who’re now pining after the certainties of the Communist era would retcon their recollections of that era to thinking now that they thought then that Poland was a sovereign state. But that’s them retconning like mad; I’m pretty sure they didn’t really think that in e.g. 1965 or 1985. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/13 "2016-02-05T23:03:57Z")
> [@Cboath11](#): > > According to Google translate the message translates as “European Union you lose” So since it also includes a depiction of the USA flag I would assume it means Western Civilization loses. Some anti west propoganda. Surely the definition of propaganda includes within it some requirement that there be an audience that can actually work out what the message is? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/14 "2016-02-05T23:09:44Z")
I’m gonna bet it makes perfect sense to people who speak idiomatic Polish. The rest of us gringos using Google translate? Not so much. English uses lots of helper words to set mood, tense, POV, etc. Other languages convey that in suffixes and such. Most machine translation is real good at getting the corresponding root words. They don’t do as good at generating the rest of the words that are implied in a source language but must be explicit separate words in English. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/15 "2016-02-05T23:20:43Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m gonna bet it makes perfect sense to people who speak idiomatic Polish. The rest of us gringos using Google translate? Not so much. I speak conversational Polish (it’s technically my first language, although a good bit of it has faded over the years.) It says “European Union. You choose. You lose.” “Choose” can mean “elect” in this sense. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/16 "2016-02-05T23:33:18Z")
That seems perfectly clear to me. And did back in your post #3. I’m not sure what **don’t ask** wasn’t quite getting. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/17 "2016-02-05T23:55:15Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > I can’t prove it but my reading is that it suggesting that the European Union will become a “United States of Europe”(a common anti-EU trope) and if you vote to join it it will be the death of Poland as a sovereign state. Except Poland is already a member of the EU and has been for years. Is it perhaps making the familiar anti-EU claim that regardless of what the citizens of member states vote for, membership of the EU forces you to comply to its rules? The chief objection, in the case of this party, possibly being immigration rules. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/18 "2016-02-06T00:20:39Z")
You know, I’ll ask somebody closer to the ground and politics about this, and see if I can get an answer. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/19 "2016-02-06T00:37:42Z")
I wonder if the beef now is about the Euro, the common currency. Poland is in the EU, but like Britain, it still has its own currency, central bank, and monetary policy. There is some controversy, the Euro’s popularity is sinking, and there will need to be an affirmative vote by the public to amend the constitution to permit adopting the Euro. There’s not a specific timetable (AFAIK) for this however. I’m not thinking this is directly what the poster is attacking, but it’s all along the same lines: “More EU integration = bad. More Poland first = Good.” ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226/20 "2016-02-06T00:51:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I speak conversational Polish (it’s technically my first language, although a good bit of it has faded over the years.) It says “European Union. You choose. You lose.” “Choose” can mean “elect” in this sense. Makes perfect sense. Those who take part in the election (of EU representatives) will still lose in the end, as their Big Brother USA (whom they adorn with their halo of stars) will lead them all into destruction… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-make-sense-of-this-polish-propaganda-poster-about-the-us-and-eu/745226.md?page=2)