# Can anyone use your credit card in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411 "2006-06-12T13:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/41 "2006-06-14T02:45:59Z")
[QUOTE=Rayne Man] They can still sign for a transaction instead. \* [/QUOTE] I would note, though that, at last here in France, some machines (I know it’s the case for ticket-selling machines in train stations) won’t take foreign cards without a chip/PIN. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/42 "2006-06-14T02:50:35Z")
[QUOTE=Ralph###c] Why aren’t CC companies obliged to have YOUR picture on the card? As of now, you sign your name on a narrow strip, and your signature rubs off in a few days. A picture car would prevent a lot of fraud. [/QUOTE] The reason is that the person’s name on front of the card is the account holder, the signature is the authorized user. Having the account holder’s picture does no good if the authorized user is a different person. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/43 "2006-06-14T03:09:49Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] The reason is that the person’s name on front of the card is the account holder, the signature is the authorized user. Having the account holder’s picture does no good if the authorized user is a different person. [/QUOTE] My husband has an authorised card on my credit card account. His card has his name on the front, and his signature on the back, but it’s attached to my account and my credit limit… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/44 "2006-06-14T03:19:44Z")
**Sierra Indigo** you are correct, sometimes a authorized user will have the name in the front, but not always. My point is that the signatures have to match - that’s all, nothing else (assuming the CC # is valid) ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/45 "2006-06-14T03:26:05Z")
**kanicbird** , point taken. I think that’s something all credit card providers should be doing. A) Putting the authorised user’s name on the front of the card they can use and B) using photos as additional verification for the card. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/46 "2006-06-14T05:27:26Z")
The idea that a minimum wage clerk is going to be conscientious and discerning enough to verify a signature and have this as the primary defense against CC fraud seems ludicrous to me. The technology exists to easily put photos on CC’s. Until they do I will continue to write “Photo I.D. Required” in place of my signature on the card, contract requirements or not. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/47 "2006-06-14T05:50:12Z")
A few US banks (including Citibank and Bank of America) offer credit cards with your picture on them, so if you want that you can get it. But I think a lot of credit card fraud happens online or with fake credit cards, so that will only help some. ---
**Author:** ![blinkingblinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@blinkingblinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blinkingblinking)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/48 "2006-06-14T11:07:01Z")
[QUOTE=jnglmassiv] For the record, cards require signatures: [http://usa.visa.com/business/accepting\_visa/ops\_risk\_management/card\_present.html](http://usa.visa.com/business/accepting_visa/ops_risk_management/card_present.html) [/QUOTE] If the card has a “See ID” in place of a signature… 1. Request a signature. Ask the cardholder to sign the card and provide current government identification, such as a driver’s license or passport (if local law permits). 2. Check the signature. Be sure that the signature on the card matches the one on the transaction receipt and the additional identification. If the signatures appear reasonably the same and the authorization request is approved, go ahead and complete the transaction. Obviously, I expect no retail staff to know this. But, it certainly shows that writing that on your card is no allowed by Visa. No shop should accept this transaction. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/49 "2006-06-14T13:39:49Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] A few US banks (including Citibank and Bank of America) offer credit cards with your picture on them, so if you want that you can get it. [/QUOTE] True, but what min. wage clerk is going to match up the photo’s, or even look at the card to see there is a photo. I think a technological solution is needed, where your signature is stored on the card in a electronic form, when you sign at the store it is electronically compaired to the stored one, if it passes the stored signature is updated, if it fails the clerk can hit you over the head with his visacard baseball bat. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/50 "2006-06-14T13:46:14Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] True, but what min. wage clerk is going to match up the photo’s, or even look at the card to see there is a photo. I think a technological solution is needed, where your signature is stored on the card in a electronic form, when you sign at the store it is electronically compaired to the stored one, if it passes the stored signature is updated, if it fails the clerk can hit you over the head with his visacard baseball bat. [/QUOTE] Surely a PIN is an electronic “signature” so why faff around with photo id’s and all the other nonsense ? Also doing away with the magnetic strip and just having the chip will make the card much more secure and incapable of being cloned . ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/51 "2006-06-14T14:23:28Z")
[QUOTE=Rayne Man] Surely a PIN is an electronic “signature” so why faff around with photo id’s and all the other nonsense ? [/QUOTE] In a earlier post I stated that I expected pin’s to become standard buying with CC’s, but it hasn’t happened. As for why, i would say that the CC companies wanted to keep things as they were, not having their customer base have to learn additional steps to use their CC and potentially lose customers. They (CC companies) are working very hard to make CC transactions easier and faster then cash and pretty much have done that (The other day I charged a $1.40 cup of coffee - swipe and the receit popped out about 2 seconds later). While I agree that adding a PIN would add security, it seems to go against their business model and slow things down. Yes it doesn’t add that much time, but considering mistakes in entering, trying to hide what you enter from the public and that little extra time it does act as a discouragement. I even don’t like that they ask you if it’s a credit or debit transaction, yes I know they sort of have to, but credit was here first dang-nab-it and debit card transactors should have to go around the back alley of the building where no decent person can see them to complete their second rate transaction :p. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/52 "2006-06-14T14:27:46Z")
I believe that the banks make more money on signature-based transactions instead of PIN-based transactions, so they’re not about to encourage the use of PINs. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/53 "2006-06-14T14:29:43Z")
A PIN is a 4 digit number Anybody can watch it being typed in Chips can be cloned - they are just large mag strip ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/54 "2006-06-14T14:30:23Z")
Well things are much more advanced here in the UK. All credit and debit cards (with the few exceptions cited by me above) will be chip and PIN, if not now, then in the very near future. The odd retailer can opt to accept a signature instead but he will have to bear any loss due to fraudulent transactions. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/55 "2006-06-14T14:35:18Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] I believe that the banks make more money on signature-based transactions instead of PIN-based transactions, so they’re not about to encourage the use of PINs. [/QUOTE] Well yes and no and yes and no. Debit card transactions usually net the bank a fixed fee per transaction and in the US use a PIN system Credit card transactions usually net the bank a percentage of the transaction and use the ‘signatute verification’ system (yea right). Now for very small transactions a debit card could net the bank a greater fee then the credit card fee. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/56 "2006-06-14T14:35:57Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE] A PIN is a 4 digit number Anybody can watch it being typed in Chips can be cloned - they are just large mag strip [/QUOTE] There may be a way of cloning a chip , but it will need much more complicated and expensive hardware to do it. As for someone spying on you entering your PIN , just cover the keypad with your hand! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/57 "2006-06-14T14:59:51Z")
[QUOTE=Rayne Man] Surely a PIN is an electronic “signature” so why faff around with photo id’s and all the other nonsense ? Also doing away with the magnetic strip and just having the chip will make the card much more secure and incapable of being cloned . [/QUOTE] Harder to forge a signature than a PIN. Plus you can watch me enter the PIN fairly easily. I NEVER use a PIN except at an ATM for security reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/58 "2006-06-14T15:11:57Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Slant] Harder to forge a signature than a PIN. Plus you can watch me enter the PIN fairly easily. I NEVER use a PIN except at an ATM for security reasons. [/QUOTE] But many studies have been made which show the shop assistant doesn’t even look at the signature. As for someone watching you enter your PIN , just cover the keypad with your other hand. Since the introduction of chip and PIN in the UK , card fraud has fallen by 13% as this [news item](http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=342442006) shows. Since chip and PIN was introduced in France a few years ago, card fraud has dropped by 80%. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/59 "2006-06-14T16:59:20Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Debit card transactions usually net the bank a fixed fee per transaction and in the US use a PIN system Credit card transactions usually net the bank a percentage of the transaction and use the ‘signatute verification’ system (yea right). [/QUOTE] I’ve done some more research, and as I understand it, signature-based transactions are called “offline” and go through the Visa or Mastercard network, while PIN-based transactions go through the debit networks and deduct directly from the user’s bank account. Is that how it works in Europe? Or can the Europeans make credit charges using a PIN? ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411/60 "2006-06-14T17:17:00Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] I’ve done some more research, and as I understand it, signature-based transactions are called “off-line” and go through the Visa or Mastercard network, while PIN-based transactions go through the debit networks and deduct directly from the user’s bank account. Is that how it works in Europe? Or can the Europeans make credit charges using a PIN? [/QUOTE] In Europe , credit-cards using a PIN are an off-line transaction, where you settle the account at the end of the month. Debit cards (also with a PIN) deduct your money straight out of your bank account. The chip and PIN system has nothing do to with the type of transaction and whether it is on-line or off-line, it is an enhanced security measure, pure and simple. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-use-your-credit-card-in-the-us/360411.md?page=4)