# Can Atheists be part of another religon other than christianity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 11, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918 "2003-01-11T06:51:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Coffeeguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Coffeeguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffeeguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/41 "2003-01-11T19:17:25Z")
We must, however remember that both sides of the theist debate are perfectly valid. There is as much evidence for the existence of a god as there is against the existence of a god (i.e. none whatsoever). Both ideas are equal and neither may be thought to take precedence over the other. In much the same way, those who believe that our world is secretly being controlled by lizard-beings from Beta-Proxima are just as correct as those who think that the world is not controlled by such beings. Due to the fact that there is no evidence to the contrary, we have to accept to Lizardarian viewpoint to be just as valid as our own (or vice versa). Similarly, we must accept the existence of faeries, pixies, demons, elves, sprites, ogres, trolls, bugbears, bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Ogopogo, Santa Clause, perpetual motion, fair government, and decent health coverage. The inability to categorically disprove something is tantamount to partial proof. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/42 "2003-01-11T19:19:37Z")
a·the·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-zm) n. 1. a.Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. b.The doctrine that there is no God or gods. 2. Godlessness; immorality. re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n. 1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. As you can see from the above definitions ( taken from the American Heritage dictionary ) atheism is not a religion (unless you’re going to use def. #4 of religion, in which case you’d really be stretching things, since not all atheists pursue it as an activity with zeal or conscientious devotion. Religion is no more a religion than Republicanism is. Also, atheists don’t necessarily have anything in common with each other other than a disbelief in gods. Certainly not enough to base a religion on. Religion is based on belief, not dis-belief. If you don’t believe in flying pigs that is not you’re religion. By the above definitions Buddhism also is not a religion, just a belief system. ---
**Author:** ![greenphan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c37758/32.png) [@greenphan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenphan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/43 "2003-01-11T19:22:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\* > But my point is there are two things to believe here. Belief in a god. And belief that there is no god. My position is to believe **neither**. That is a valid position. \*\* Exactly. It’s like in tests in high school; you always have the option of “D”, none of the above. This whole debate about the meaning of atheism arose, I think, because it can be viewed as its own de facto religion. As someone previously said, it takes the same amount of faith to say that god does exist and to say that he doesn’t; why should the first option be considered a religion and the second not? And to not choose either option is perfectably acceptable; some people don’t pick who they’re voting for until the last minute. The same can apply to religion. –greenphan ---
**Author:** ![Coffeeguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Coffeeguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffeeguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/44 "2003-01-11T19:23:01Z")
> [@](#): > > [A]re Christians athiests because of the number of gods they don’t believe in? One heck of an interesting thought, **Yllaria.** -Coffeeguy ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/45 "2003-01-11T19:28:26Z")
There may be no way to decide whether a system of beliefs is a religion or not, but in America there is a government agency that has the power to decide whether a group is a church or not. That agency is the IRS. Churches get tax breaks, non-churches do not. It has been pointed out that Jesus and his disciples would not fit the IRS definition of a church. Although I once heard a radio bit on a church of athiesm. I think the idea was that god did not exist, but that was no reason to forgo the benefits of belonging to a church. Foremost of those was that it was easier to inculcate moral values into children while a member of a church. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/46 "2003-01-11T19:28:58Z")
_originally posted by[/] \*\* greenphan_\* **As someone previously said, it takes the same amount of faith to say that god does exist and to say that he doesn’t; why should the first option be considered a religion and the second not?** Read the definition of religion I posted above and you’ll see why. ---
**Author:** ![greenphan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c37758/32.png) [@greenphan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenphan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/47 "2003-01-11T19:30:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by x-ray vision \* > \*\*a·the·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-zm) > n. > 1. > a.Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. > b.The doctrine that there is no God or gods. > 2. Godlessness; immorality. > > Religion is based on belief, not dis-belief. If you don’t believe in flying pigs that is not you’re religion. By the above definitions Buddhism also is not a religion, just a belief system. \*\* I think your definitions are a little suspect. Atheism means immorality? A lack of god does not mean a lack of morals; it just means a lack of morals based on supernatural sources. And Buddhism is not a religion? On what grounds? The millions of adherents praying in temples around the world would probably disagree with you. I think your dictionary is a little ethnocentric and biased. Also, you say that religion is based on belief and not dis-belief. So, if one says “I believe in God”, he adheres to a religion, but if someone says “I believe there is no God”, they don’t? As I’ve said before, there is a difference between the statements “I don’t believe in God” and “I believe God doesn’t exist”. Saying that you believe there is no God takes just as much faith as saying a carpenter is the saviour of man. That’s why I personally believe that atheism is it’s own little de facto religion. –greenphan ---
**Author:** ![Coffeeguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Coffeeguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffeeguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/48 "2003-01-11T19:31:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*t takes the same amount of faith to say that god does exist and to say that he doesn’t; why should the first option be considered a religion and the second not? Exactly, like how those of us who do not believe that the world is flat are as delusional as those who do. -Coffeeguy ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/49 "2003-01-11T19:44:10Z")
_originally posted by[/] \*\* greenphan_\* **As someone previously said, it takes the same amount of faith to say that god does exist and to say that he doesn’t; why should the first option be considered a religion and the second not?** Read the definition of religion I posted above and you’ll see why. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/50 "2003-01-11T19:44:10Z")
originally posted by **greenphan** [quote] I think your definitions are a little suspect.\*\* They’re not my defintions. Like I wrote, they’re from the American Heritage. I’ve looked in oters before and they’re very similar. originally posted by **greenphan** [quote] Saying that you believe there is no God takes just as much faith as saying a carpenter is the saviour of man. That’s why I personally believe that atheism is it’s own little de facto religion.[/qoute] Why is that **greenphan** , where do you get the definition of religion that says faith in something makes that you’re religion? ---
**Author:** ![Coffeeguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Coffeeguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coffeeguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/51 "2003-01-11T19:59:28Z")
I take the bus when I’m in the city. When I stand at the bus stop, I have faith that there will be a bus along in a few minutes. This must make me a Bussarian. -Coffeeguy ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/52 "2003-01-11T20:05:10Z")
Cool, I wanna be a Bussarian! ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/53 "2003-01-11T20:09:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by greenphan \* > And Buddhism is not a religion? On what grounds? The millions of adherents praying in temples around the world would probably disagree with you. Well, according to the long post that I made previously in this thread, Buddhism doesn’t _have_ to be religious by any means, and started in a rather agnostic fashion, but many people do practice it in a religious fashion. ---
**Author:** ![greenphan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c37758/32.png) [@greenphan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenphan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/54 "2003-01-11T20:15:13Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by x-ray vision \* **originally posted by greenphan** > [@](#): > > They’re not my defintions. Like I wrote, they’re from the American Heritage. I’ve looked in oters before and they’re very similar. I didn’t mean to imply that they were your definitions as in you made them from thin air or anything. I meant “your” in the sense that they are the definitions you are advocating. > [@](#): > > Why is that **greenphan** , where do you get the definition of religion that says faith in something makes that you’re religion? Faith in something doesn’t necessarily make that your religion. As **coffeyguy** so sardonically stated, he is a bussarian. But his belief that the bus will come is completely different than the belief system found in religions, atheism included; **coffeyguy’s** belief is solitary; it is not accompanied with other little pieces of religious folklore or philosophy. A belief or non-belief in God is really the starting point to the religion. Christianity isn’t just a belief in God; Jesus and apostles, the virgin birth, the Commandments all are part of the religion. There are numerous facets to religion other than the core belief. As is the case with atheism, it’s just not as standardized as Christianity or Judaism. Take an atheist; his core belief is that God does not exist. From there, he adds some from the book of Aristotle, a little from the Gospel of Camus, etc. until his entire religious worldview is fufilled. He has faith, just like a Christian, it’s just not faith in the typical spiritual sense of the term. That’s just the way I see it. I’m not evangelical about this idea, either. I just used it as a basis to disagree with the fundamental assumption of the OP, that atheists belong to particular religions. Actually, both the assumptions of the OP and the dictionary you quoted have the same fallacy; they equate religion with Christianity or, at the very least, monotheism. –greenphan ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/55 "2003-01-11T20:27:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **greenphan** _ > > A belief or non-belief in God is really the starting point to the religion. Christianity isn’t just a belief in God; Jesus and apostles, the virgin birth, the Commandments all are part of the religion. There are numerous facets to religion other than the core belief. I totally agree with you here! > [@](#): > > _originally posted by **greenphan** _ > Take an atheist; his core belief is that God does not exist. From there, he adds some from the book of Aristotle, a little from the Gospel of Camus, etc. until his entire religious worldview is fufilled. He has faith, just like a Christian, it’s just not faith in the typical spiritual sense of the term. This is were you’ve got things wrong! An atheist does not have to take anything from Aristotle, the Gospel of Camus, or anywhere else. Like I said before, the only thing atheists necessarily have in common is a dis-belief in gods. That’s it! Not enough to categorize us as all being so much alike by calling that our religion. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/56 "2003-01-11T20:27:34Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Ferret Herder** _ > Well, according to the long post that I made previously in this thread, Buddhism doesn’t have to be religious by any means, and started in a rather agnostic fashion, but many people do practice it in a religious fashion. And it has been pointed out many times that modern-day Catholicism and Protestantism bear little resemblance to the preachings that are attributed to Jesus. Does that make them not religions? It’s just a little late in the day to argue that Buddhism is not practiced as a religion. I will admit that there might be adherents to some offshoots of Buddhism who practice it as an agnostic philosophy, because there are offshoots of every kind of every religion. (Remember the atheists for Jesus link given before?) But I don’t see any way of putting true atheism and true Buddhism into a single individual without seriously violating the tenets of both. Those who are that slippery in their mental processes could probably also believe that atheism is a religion. You simply cannot stretch the definition of a word until it snaps and still have meaningful discourse with others. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/57 "2003-01-11T20:30:41Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **greenphan** _ > > I didn’t mean to imply that they were your definitions as in you made them from thin air or anything. I meant “your” in the sense that they are the definitions you are advocating. I’m advocating definitions from the American heritage dictionary. Oh my! I’m such a radical. What’s your dictionary of choice? ---
**Author:** ![greenphan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c37758/32.png) [@greenphan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenphan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/58 "2003-01-11T20:34:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by x-ray vision \* > \*\* > This is were you’ve got things wrong! An atheist does not have to take anything from Aristotle, the Gospel of Camus, or anywhere else. Like I said before, the only thing atheists necessarily have in common is a dis-belief in gods. That’s it! Not enough to categorize us as all being so much alike by calling that our religion. Get it? \*\* I pick up what you’re putting down, but I still dont’ agree with you. While the only tangible link between most atheists is the non-belief in god, I still while categorize atheism as a religion because of the belief structure built around the non-belief in God. I’m not saying that you have to pick philosophers to form your belief structure but your belief structure comes from somewhere, even if it is just the rules your parents instilled in you as a child. I never meant that atheism was a religion as other religions are; there is no where near as much uniformity, as you said. In my opinion, as I’ve stated before, it is a religion just a higly individual one. I think we are reaching the point of being forced to agree to disagree on this one. –greenphan ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/59 "2003-01-11T20:38:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **Exapno Mapcase** _ > > And it has been pointed out many times that modern-day Catholicism and Protestantism bear little resemblance to the preachings that are attributed to Jesus. Does that make them not religions? No it doesn’t. I’m no Buddhism expert, but if Buddhists don’t believe in a god or gods, that’s what makes Buddhism a non-religion. It’s as simple as reading the def. of religion. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918/60 "2003-01-11T20:49:16Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **greenphan** _ > > While the only tangible link between most atheists is the non-belief in god, I still while categorize atheism as a religion because of the belief structure built around the non-belief in God. compare this to what you wrote earlier: > [@](#): > > A belief or non-belief in God is really the starting point to the religion. Christianity isn’t just a belief in God; Jesus and apostles, the virgin birth, the Commandments all are part of the religion. There are numerous facets to religion other than the core belief. Flip- flopping a little here? Also, you’re saying a non-belief is a belief system. Sound a little ridiculous? I don’t believe in a lot of things, why say Atheism is my religion? I also don’t believe in Bigfoot. Should my non-belief in Bigfoot also be my religion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-atheists-be-part-of-another-religon-other-than-christianity/147918.md?page=4)