# Can behavior affect our DNA **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 7, 2023, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736 "2023-11-07T06:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/1 "2023-11-07T06:40:29Z")
I followed a conversation on this yesterday, and it got me to thinking of ways our behavior might be translated in someway to our genetic code we passed on… The only thing I could think of was that chemicals and hormones produced in our brain might react more with certain sperm stimulating them to have a better chance of reaching the egg. I was amazed to discover how close the relationship is between our brain and our semen. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/2 "2023-11-07T08:46:32Z")
You may have heard of “[The Darwin Awards](https://darwinawards.com/darwin/)”… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/3 "2023-11-07T11:57:04Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I followed a conversation on this yesterday, and it got me to thinking of ways our behavior might be translated in someway to our genetic code we passed on… Our behavior obviously determines _whether_ our genetic code is passed on, as @DPRK notes. Our behavior can also affect the DNA mutation rate in germline cells through exposure to mutagens, but this is only the rate at which functionally random changes occur. In response to the environment (i.e. including our behavioral interaction with the environment), the genome in many cells is constantly modified _without_ changing the DNA base sequence to modulate what information is read out and in what quantity. These are called **epigenetic** modifications, and these are highly significant as a key part of the organism’s response to the environment. Some of these epigenetic changes are more persistent, and in some cases have been shown to persist across one or more generations, a process called **transgenerational epigenetic inheritance**. However, the significance of this aspect has been exaggerated based on limited evidence, and there is no evidence at all that it has any affect on evolution over more than a few generations. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The only thing I could think of was that chemicals and hormones produced in our brain might react more with certain sperm stimulating them to have a better chance of reaching the egg. This is preposterous, both in the “how” and the “why” of it. Some background reading about real science: > **[Lamarckism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism)** > > Lamarckism, also known as Lamarckian inheritance or neo-Lamarckism, is the notion that an organism can pass on to its offspring physical characteristics that the parent organism acquired through use or disuse during its lifetime. It is also called the inheritance of acquired characteristics or more recently soft inheritance. The idea is named after the French zoologist Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829), who incorporated the classical era theory of soft inheritance into his theory of evolution > **[Central dogma of molecular biology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_dogma_of_molecular_biology)** > > The central dogma of molecular biology is an explanation of the flow of genetic information within a biological system. It is often stated as "DNA makes RNA, and RNA makes protein", although this is not its original meaning. It was first stated by Francis Crick in 1957, then published in 1958: > The Central Dogma. This states that once "information" has passed into protein it cannot get out again. In more detail, the transfer of information from nucleic acid to nucleic acid, or from nucleic acid t... > **[Transgenerational epigenetic inheritance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_inheritance)** > > Transgenerational epigenetic inheritance is the transmission of epigenetic markers and modifications from one generation to multiple subsequent generations without altering the primary structure of DNA. Thus, the regulation of genes via epigenetic mechanisms can be heritable; the amount of transcripts and proteins produced can be altered by inherited epigenetic changes. In order for epigenetic marks to be heritable, however, they must occur in the gametes in animals, but since plants lack a de It... ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/4 "2023-11-07T12:14:55Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > > > The only thing I could think of was that chemicals and hormones produced in our brain might react more with certain sperm stimulating them to have a better chance of reaching the egg. > > This is preposterous, both in the “how” and the “why” of it. Yeah, I’m curious what backs the assertion of > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I was amazed to discover how close the relationship is between our brain and our semen. other than > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The only thing I could think of ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/5 "2023-11-07T12:25:13Z")
I think it definitely does over time through Natural Selection. Species X is living in a certain environment that requires that it has certain attributes that maximize survival time and adapt best to the food supply that is available. The individuals of this species lacking in these qualities die before they can reproduce in any significant numbers, whereas the individuals best suited survive and pass on their genes. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/6 "2023-11-07T12:41:52Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I think it definitely does over time through Natural Selection. But OP is asking about behavior affecting DNA, and that is not natural selection. Natural selection is (as you describe) the selection OF innate behavior in a species, behavior that is adaptive in the environment. If anything, it is the behavior of _other species_ (part of the environment from the subject species’ perspective) affecting DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/7 "2023-11-07T13:19:19Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I’m curious what backs the assertion of > > > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > > > I was amazed to discover how close the relationship is between our brain and our semen. Perhaps @HoneyBadgerDC might apply his own insightful comment in another recent thread to his hot takes on scientific matters: > [@What's the dumbest/worst "Next Million Dollar Idea" someone has shared with you?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dumbest-worst-next-million-dollar-idea-someone-has-shared-with-you/992447/104): > > You might be surprised if you knew how many people have been carrying an idea along with them throughout their lives. They get frustrated because they have thousands of hours of thought invested into something and when they attempt to talk about it they are usually talking to someone who hasn’t given it any thought at all and they are thinking on the fly. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/8 "2023-11-07T15:14:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But OP is asking about behavior affecting DNA, and that is not natural selection. > > Natural selection is (as you describe) the selection OF innate behavior in a species, behavior that is adaptive in the environment. If anything, it is the behavior of _other species_ (part of the environment from the subject species’ perspective) affecting DNA. I wasn’t suggesting a change in the DNA, I was simply asking a question. My question was very specifically related to sperm responding differently to the whatever chemical were present in our spinal fluid shortly before ejaculation. In the conversation I was following they were discussing changes to the DNA, my question is more about more favorable conditions for already existing sperm. Which is a lot different question. I used to breed dogs and we had some control over how many males and females we could get by breeding them at different periods during estrus. The condition of the females womb or the ph would favor male or female sperm. That would indicate that not all sperm respond the same to things. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/9 "2023-11-07T15:25:42Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I wasn’t suggesting a change in the DNA The first sentence of your OP explicitly proposed a change in DNA. If you really mean something else but you don’t have the technical knowledge to express it clearly, it would be helpful if you could provide a link or a transcript of the conversation you are talking about so that we can understand where these ideas and questions are coming from. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > My question was very specifically related to sperm responding differently to the whatever chemical were present in our spinal fluid shortly before ejaculation In particular, where did you get this idea from? There may be something to it and perhaps I can fight my own ignorance in not being up to date with the literature, but frankly the way you are describing it sounds more like something a person might come up with while smoking dope than reading research. Not that there isn’t any conceivable physiological connection, but it seemed that your idea was that the brain is somehow selecting _specific_ sperm? Before responding further, I’d like to know about this “conversation”, and it’s frankly suspicious that (as usual) you provide no cites. Do your questions derive from reading the musings of cranks, or from reading scientific research? ETA: if your next response does **not** provide a cite, based on past experience with you that will be end of my participation in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/10 "2023-11-07T15:41:15Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > In particular, where did you get this idea from? There may be something to it and perhaps I can fight my own ignorance in not being up to date with the literature, but frankly the way you are describing it sounds more like something a person might come up with while smoking dope than reading research. Not that there isn’t any physiological connection, but it seemed that your idea was that somehow the brain is selecting _specific_ sperm. What gave me the idea was this. Earlier in the day i was reading an article on the billions of different types of neurons we have. This is what planted the seed. Then after following this thread about DNA I started to wonder if neuron activity could have any effect of the behavior on the sperm, and if it did affect the behavior would they all respond the same way. I googles the question, " Does semen interact with spinal fluid". This is where I learned of the strong relation between the two. We know our brain chemistry is constantly changing but individuals will have their own chemical make up that is unique to them. I tried to google it from this angle and came up with nothing so I proposed it here as a question not an assertion. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/11 "2023-11-07T15:43:39Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I was amazed to discover how close the relationship is between our brain and our semen. “You’re soaking in it”. –Madge ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/12 "2023-11-07T15:46:13Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I googles the question, " Does semen interact with spinal fluid". This is where I learned of the strong relation between the two. So what was the google hit or hits that you found? Link please. Otherwise I’m done with giving the benefit of the doubt, I will assume that you don’t want to provide the link because you know it’s a crank source, and my next post will be in your Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/13 "2023-11-07T16:04:58Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So what was the google hit or hits that you found? Link please. Otherwise I’m done with giving the benefit of the doubt, I will assume that you don’t want to provide the link because you know it’s a crank source, and my next post will be in your Pit thread. Having trouble finding the same link, give me a few hours to play with it. Very interesting article explains a lot about how ejaculation affects our thinking ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/14 "2023-11-07T16:13:58Z")
If I’m going to make a post on this board that is very likely to result in a request for cites, I try to make sure that I have the cite(s) to hand _before_ I make the post. If I can’t find the cites, I don’t make the post. I’m not going to claim to have always been perfect about this; but I think it’s a pretty good rule of thumb. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/15 "2023-11-07T16:15:42Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Very interesting article explains a lot about how ejaculation affects our thinking And did the ‘’‘article’‘’ say that our thinking affects our sperm? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/16 "2023-11-07T16:20:40Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And did the ‘’‘article’‘’ say that our thinking affects our sperm No that was my question because our thinking does affect the chemical makeup in our spinal fluids. Semen does not cross the brain blood barrier until it is reabsorbed. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If I’m going to make a post on this board that is very likely to result in a request for cites, I try to make sure that I have the cite(s) to hand _before_ I make the post. > > If I can’t find the cites, I don’t make the post. > > I’m not going to claim to have always been perfect about this; but I think it’s a pretty good rule of thumb. I hadn’t thought about posting on this until several hours after I did the reading and now I am struggling to phrase my question to google the same way so I can find the article. I didn’t think sites were required in MHO, I know they are preferred. . ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/17 "2023-11-07T16:23:17Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > No that was my question because our thinking does affect the chemical makeup in our spinal fluids. Semen does not cross the brain blood barrier until it is reabsorbed. So, you did not actually ‘discover’ how close the relationship is between our brain and our semen… ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/18 "2023-11-07T16:30:45Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I didn’t think sites were required in MHO, I know they are preferred. . I think it depends on the subject. But anything referring to a specific odd scientific claim is pretty sure to bring requests for cites. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > our thinking does affect the chemical makeup in our spinal fluids. For instance, I’d really like to see a cite for that; fascinating if true. I can find [references to spinal fluid cleansing the brain during sleep](https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/cerebrospinal-fluid-washing-in-brain-during-sleep/); but that appears to be the fluid affecting the brain, not the other way around. And it doesn’t seem to be in response to any specific thought. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/19 "2023-11-07T16:48:52Z")
For me the first (paid promoted) hit if you google “cerebrospinal fluid sperm” is crank nonsense saying things suspiciously similar to OP on a site promoting a “holistic” Indian sexual health clinic, likely a scam. I have little doubt this is what OP found. I’m not going to link to it, and I can’t be bothered to read it in detail, since none of the “scientific” claims on it are referenced either, so it’s impossible to discern if there’s even a sliver of reality behind any of the claims. I did find this interesting paper, however, describing how the young Leonardo da Vinci reproduced conventional wisdom that there was a duct between the spinal cord and the testes! He corrected this in later drawings. > **[Leonardo da Vinci and the origin of semen](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4213433/)** > > It is well known that Leonardo da Vinci made several drawings of the human male anatomy. The early drawings (before 1500) were incorrect in identifying the origin of semen, where he followed accepted teaching of his time. It is widely thought that he... ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/20 "2023-11-07T17:12:17Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Some of these epigenetic changes are more persistent, and in some cases have been shown to persist across one or more generations, a process called **transgenerational epigenetic inheritance**. However, the significance of this aspect has been exaggerated based on limited evidence, and there is no evidence at all that it has any affect on evolution over more than a few generations. Given your apparent knowledge in this subject, can you tell me what you make of the current theory in trauma psychology that is extremely trendy right now - namely, the idea that trauma is genetically passed from one generation to the next? Here’s an example of this claim. [https://www.psycom.net/trauma/epigenetics-trauma](https://www.psycom.net/trauma/epigenetics-trauma) I’ve been thinking for a while that it’s BS, but I’m not a subject matter expert. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736.md?page=2)