# Can behavior affect our DNA **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 7, 2023, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736 "2023-11-07T06:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/21 "2023-11-07T17:28:40Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Here’s an example of this claim. > > [Can Trauma Be Passed Down From One Generation to the Next?](https://www.psycom.net/trauma/epigenetics-trauma) > > I’ve been thinking for a while that it’s BS, but I’m not a subject matter expert. I am glad you posted this because it is exactly the direction I was hoping the thread would take. I could think of several things I would want to look at that may or may not support this. I tend to think how and when genes are expressed may be more important than we think. For example, the condition of a womans womb affects how the sperm make the trip to the egg. Does the womans state of mind affect the condition of her womb? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/22 "2023-11-07T17:38:48Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Does the womans state of mind affect the condition of her womb? Obviously not sufficiently to prevent unwanted pregnancy or cause miscarriage, even in women likely to be killed by it and aware of the fact. Obviously not sufficiently to prevent pregnancy or cause miscarriage in women in war zones with insufficient food available. So I really, really doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/23 "2023-11-07T17:45:41Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Obviously not sufficiently to prevent pregnancy or cause miscarriage in women in war zones with insufficient food available. > > So I really, really doubt it. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Obviously not sufficiently to prevent pregnancy or cause miscarriage in women in war zones with insufficient food available. > > So I really, really doubt it. Could it affect it enough to change which sperm successfully reached the egg? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/24 "2023-11-07T18:03:26Z")
Have you got anything remotely resembling evidence that it does? Again, bring cites. And please bring the cites first, instead of just making vague noises about it, if you want me to pay any attention. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/25 "2023-11-07T18:11:41Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I tend to think how and when genes are expressed may be more important than we think. And this is like saying “I think stars might be more important than astronomers realize”. Gene expression is not more important than **we** think, where we is humanity and our knowledge is represented by the vast body of research in the field, part of which (epigenetics) I identified in the third post of the thread (and which you ignored). > **[Gene expression](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_expression)** > > Gene expression is the process by which information from a gene is used in the synthesis of a functional gene product that enables it to produce end products, proteins or non-coding RNA, and ultimately affect a phenotype. These products are often proteins, but in non-protein-coding genes such as transfer RNA (tRNA) and small nuclear RNA (snRNA), the product is a functional non-coding RNA. Gene expression is summarized in the central dogma of molecular biology first formulated by Francis Crick in ... ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/26 "2023-11-07T18:36:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And this is like saying “I think stars might be more important than astronomers realize”. Gene expression is not more important than **we** think, where we is humanity and our knowledge is represented by the vast body of research in the field, part of which (epigenetics) I identified in the third post of the thread (and which you ignored). More often than not when I start a thread like this it is because I know nothing about it but find it interesting. I do my best to lay out my question hoping someone else is able to figure out what I am talking about and they might know something more about it that they are willing to share. I don’t have anything to contribute in these cases beyond a suggested topic for conversation. My interpretation of gene expression is obviously wrong. I thought it included the aspect of how and why certain sperm got through and others did not. My thinking on the subject goes like this: Do all sperm behave alike? Yes =end of conversation. No=more qestions. Does a sperms behavior affect his chances of attaching to the egg? Yes=more questions. Is the fluid the sperm lives in always the same? No=more question… You get the idea, very basic, I was just hoping that some people on here with some knowledge on the subject might start discussing it. Nothing more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/27 "2023-11-07T18:48:59Z")
Why am I thinking that [psuedoscience](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience) was born in a very similar way? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/28 "2023-11-07T19:09:56Z")
All science starts with questions I would imagine. It is the answers to the questions that determine the value of the conversation. What you said here is thread shitting. Why would you respond to something you have no interest in? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/29 "2023-11-07T19:11:26Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Why would you respond to something you have no interest in? Because I have an opinion about it, more as a warning, than just a simple acquiesence to your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/30 "2023-11-07T19:20:56Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Does the womans state of mind affect the condition of her womb? I don’t know anything about how sperm behave under what conditions, but what is known is that extreme stress (and I mean extreme) during pregnancy has been shown to affect fetal development. Likewise, there are neurodevelopmental conditions like autism that are 90% heritable but probably require something to happen during fetal development in order to trigger genetic expression. There is AFAIK one small study pointing to Dad’s sperm in this case: > **[Changes in Father’s Sperm Linked to Autistic Traits in Their Children, Small...](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/2023/04/changes-in-fathers-sperm-linked-to-autistic-traits-in-their-children-small-preliminary-study-suggests)** Just based on what little I know, it seems more likely that something would happen in utero than something would happen to prevent certain sperm from reaching the egg. And I think what **Riemann** is saying is that how genes express themselves, in terms of epigenetics, is not heritable. You get the genes and it’s your environment that determines how they are expressed, and if you have a kid they get those same genes and it’s _your children’s_ environment that determines how their genes are expressed. Do I have that correct? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/31 "2023-11-07T19:32:47Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > You get the genes and it’s your environment that determines how they are expressed, and if you have a kid they get those same genes and it’s _your children’s_ environment that determines how their genes are expressed. Do I have that correct? Sorry, reading the link I sent, that can’t be correct. It seems epigenetic changes can somehow be passed down to children, at least in the case of autism. > “Changes in the epigenome can be influenced by genes, the environment, or age, and the new research can show us more about how epigenetic changes in parents influence the health of children,” says co-lead investigator [Andrew Feinberg, M.D.](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/profiles/details/andrew-feinberg-1), Bloomberg Distinguished Professor at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Whiting School of Engineering and Bloomberg School of Public Health. Feinberg pioneered studies in the 1980s that identified epigenetic changes that influence cancer development. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/32 "2023-11-07T19:39:07Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > can you tell me what you make of the current theory in trauma psychology that is extremely trendy right now - namely, the idea that trauma is genetically passed from one generation to the next > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > And I think what **Riemann** is saying is that how genes express themselves, in terms of epigenetics, is not heritable. Sorry I didn’t get around to responding to your earlier post, I’m not up to date on the most recent literature and I was actually having a look at some of it. In brief - there is certainly evidence that epigenetic inheritance is a real phenomenon. But I don’t think anyone has demonstrated convincingly that it’s an _important_ phenomenon. Most epigenetic marks are erased in the germline, or never even present in the germline because they regulate gene expression in somatic cells. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/33 "2023-11-07T19:39:32Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > All science starts with questions I would imagine. Not all questions are equal in quality, however. Despite what some teachers might say, there ARE such things as stupid questions. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/34 "2023-11-07T19:52:43Z")
[Cat behavior affects our DNA?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736) In some Lamarckian view of the world, I’m quite sure it does. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/35 "2023-11-07T20:03:20Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > All science starts with questions I would imagine. No it doesn’t. Science starts with _curiosity_, but then proceeds with appropriate humility by trying to understand the existing body of knowledge, not with wild speculation. Only pseudoscientific cranks imagine that they can make an inspired iconoclastic contribution to human knowledge while shortcutting the hard work of climbing onto the shoulders of giants. > **[Standing on the shoulders of giants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants)** > > The phrase "standing on the shoulders of giants" is a metaphor which means "using the understanding gained by major thinkers who have gone before in order to make intellectual progress". > It is a metaphor of dwarfs standing on the shoulders of giants (Latin: nani gigantum humeris insidentes) and expresses the meaning of "discovering truth by building on previous discoveries". This concept has been dated to the 12th century and, according to John of Salisbury, is attributed to Bernard of Chartre... ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/36 "2023-11-07T20:40:08Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > not with wild speculation. > > Only pseudoscientific cranks imagine that th I would agree with this 100%. I also readily admit that what lead me down this rabbit hole might have been me misinterpreting things I read. I will lay out step by step my line of reasoning, anything I am absolutely wrong on just let me know and I will rethink it. Everything I say is just based on impressions I have that may be wrong. !. The testes are more closely associated with the brain than any other organ in our body. 2. Men manufacture and store their sperm in seminal fluid. 3. The seminal fluid contains the same chemicals and hormones circulating through the rest of the spinal fluid system. 4. the chemicals and hormones in our spinal fluid are largely dictated by brain activity. 5. Do these same chemicals and hormones have any affect on the behavior of the sperm? 6. If they do have an affect on the sperm would that alter the chances of which sperm managed to reach the egg? 7. is their a genetic component associated with the trip the sperm has to make that might be traced back to an emotional or mental state of the sperm donor. The line of thinking is just that simple, it might be very difficult to establish a link like that even if it did exist. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/37 "2023-11-07T20:54:19Z")
Do you really imagine that the way science proceeds is that from a position of total ignorance of human physiology, reproduction, genetics, molecular biology - _every_ aspect of biology - you can just write down some random sequence of wild speculation that you either dreamed up\* or read on a crank website\* and expect to be taken seriously? \*If this assumption is not true, PROVIDE A CITE to refute it. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The seminal fluid contains the same chemicals and hormones circulating through the rest of the spinal fluid system. This nonsense I am certain comes from the crank website that I mentioned above that you disingenuously claim you now cannot find. Again, if this is not true, PROVIDE A CITE to refute it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/38 "2023-11-07T20:54:52Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > !. The testes are more closely associated with the brain than any other organ in our body. What? This is not something I’ve ever heard before. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/39 "2023-11-07T21:03:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Do you really imagine that the way science proceeds is that from a position of total ignorance of human physiology, reproduction, genetics, molecular biology - _every_ aspect of biology - you can just write down some random sequence of wild speculation that you either dreamed up\* or read on a crank website\* and expect to be taken seriously? What the hell is wrong with you? I made no assumptions of any kind, I asked a simple question. I was simply wondering if this was something being looked at? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736/40 "2023-11-07T21:05:01Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Everything I say is just based on impressions I have that may be wrong. I think it might be better if everything you said was based on factual information rather than “impressions you have”. This really should go without saying, but… I guess it needs to be said. Your points you make above are not only misinformed, wrong or just badly phrased … in some cases, they’re just silly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-behavior-affect-our-dna/992736.md?page=3)