# Can Bisquick really "go bad"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338 "2017-07-15T18:01:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/21 "2017-07-16T03:45:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Tripolar** : > > Are you saying baking soda does not react with water? Actually I don’t know for sure. You generally need to add something acidic when baking only with baking powder. It’ll dissolve in water, but once the water evaporates it’ll be back to the state it was in before. Well, maybe in inconveniently-large crystals instead of powder, but the same chemically. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/22 "2017-07-16T03:45:29Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Is this the one?](http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/pancake.asp) > > While a death was confirmed, there’s a red flag in the _Dear Abby_ story. > Really? The kid is cyanotic and an EMT is going to wait for a pill to take effect? And treating with steam? What do I know? I’m not an EMT. This was all over the news years ago when I was making pancakes for my kids. It has always sounded legit from numerous sources. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/23 "2017-07-16T07:53:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > At least internationally the terms baking soda and baking powder are used interchangeably. This may simply be a translation error, I don’t know. I’ve cooked in quite a few countries and in none of them were baking soda and baking powder interchangeable. They were always two separate products on grocery shelves. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/24 "2017-07-16T12:49:39Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I’ve cooked in quite a few countries and in none of them were baking soda and baking powder interchangeable. They were always two separate products on grocery shelves. Apparently I’m not being clear. The _terms,_ baking soda and baking powder, not the products but their _names_, get used interchangeably in recipes. They are not the same thing but I’ve seen a number of recipes from outside the US that specify one when the other is clearly called for. Comparison to other recipes for the same dish, in addition to the amounts specified made it clear that this was the case. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/25 "2017-07-16T13:46:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Apparently I’m not being clear. The _terms,_ baking soda and baking powder, not the products but their _names_, get used interchangeably in recipes. They are not the same thing but I’ve seen a number of recipes from outside the US that specify one when the other is clearly called for. Comparison to other recipes for the same dish, in addition to the amounts specified made it clear that this was the case. I get what you’re saying, but that’s really bizarre. Are you certain you’re understanding these recipes accurately? Can you show some examples? I do a fair amount of baking, and I’ve never in my life seen this. It’d be a pretty serious mistake to have in a recipe, since the two ingredients react so differently. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/26 "2017-07-16T14:32:12Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Check out the Snopes article on expired pancake batter. > > It has killed people. If you’re going to say something like this, you really should provide the link. **justmeetee** , lately my family has been experiencing problems with Bisquick not rising. It isn’t just old packages that have been open a while, either, we’ve tried with new boxes and it still didn’t rise right. My sister switched brands of pancake mix - she now uses Krusteaz. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/27 "2017-07-16T14:44:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I get what you’re saying, but that’s really bizarre. Are you certain you’re understanding these recipes accurately? Can you show some examples? I do a fair amount of baking, and I’ve never in my life seen this. It’d be a pretty serious mistake to have in a recipe, since the two ingredients react so differently. A quick search didn’t get me anything so far. The first time I saw this was a recipe for tenderizing orange beef that specified baking powder instead of baking soda. Baking soda is often used to velvet meat. I tried it and the results were awful, the baking powder made the meat taste like soap, maybe the same reaction that gives lutefisk it’s disgusting flavor. I saw later the amounts matched other recipes that specified baking soda. I don’t bake much so it’s going to be this kind of use that I run across. I’m sure I’ve seen the same thing in some Indian recipes as well and double checking the amounts indicated it was not supposed to be baking powder. I suspect it is just a translation issue, a recipe in another language using literal translations for the ingredients. Someone else told me they’ve run across the same thing. But I don’t know why, in baking the two ingredients can be substituted to rise a mix, however the amounts won’t be the same and the addition of acid is needed for just baking soda. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/28 "2017-07-16T15:21:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > A quick search didn’t get me anything so far. The first time I saw this was a recipe for tenderizing orange beef that specified baking powder instead of baking soda. Baking soda is often used to velvet meat. I tried it and the results were awful, the baking powder made the meat taste like soap, maybe the same reaction that gives lutefisk it’s disgusting flavor. I saw later the amounts matched other recipes that specified baking soda. I don’t bake much so it’s going to be this kind of use that I run across. I’m sure I’ve seen the same thing in some Indian recipes as well and double checking the amounts indicated it was not supposed to be baking powder. I suspect it is just a translation issue, a recipe in another language using literal translations for the ingredients. Someone else told me they’ve run across the same thing. But I don’t know why, in baking the two ingredients can be substituted to rise a mix, however the amounts won’t be the same and the addition of acid is needed for just baking soda. Poor translation makes sense. Yuck. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/29 "2017-07-16T15:45:23Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > If you’re going to say something like this, you really should provide the link. See Post #20. 😉 > [@Irishman](#): > > My sister switched brands of pancake mix - she now uses Krusteaz. I use Krusteaz. The Wife likes it. I like it because, in my head, I hear a Scotsman with a dirty bum: ‘Och! I hae a bad case o’ the Krusteaz!’ 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/30 "2017-07-16T19:24:25Z")
Yes, it’s got to be poor translation. Baking soda can be used in any recipe that contains acid to react with the soda. Baking powder just contains powdered crystallized acid. I suspect that in many parts of the world there is no product equivalent to “baking powder”, cooks there would just add an acid component externally. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/31 "2017-07-17T02:12:56Z")
I don’t understand why anyone uses Bisquick or any pancake mix when making pancakes from scratch is dead easy. To me the commercial mixes taste…off. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/32 "2017-07-17T02:22:00Z")
> [@Cub\_Mistress](#): > > I don’t understand why anyone uses Bisquick or any pancake mix when making pancakes from scratch is dead easy. To me the commercial mixes taste…off. I’ve wondered that myself, but, truth is, lots of people don’t have baking powder on hand or want to bother with looking up or remembering the recipe. I agree that it’s dead simple, and even dead simpler if you use self-raising flour, so you don’t even have to worry about having baking powder on hand. That said, I’d be hard-pressed to differentiate a mix pancake from a scratch pancake, but I’m not a pancake connoisseur and I don’t particularly like them, either. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/33 "2017-07-17T04:49:43Z")
My grandmother often bought cake mixes on sale. It wasnt unusual for them to go out of date. She added extra baking powder to make them rise. Good cakes. No one ever got sick. I’d guess her mixes were never more than a year out of date. She only bought Duncan Hines mixes or Bundt Cake mixes. Never the cheaper store brands. I can’t recall her making pancakes. I doubt she had any mixes. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/34 "2017-07-17T13:21:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Are you saying baking soda does not react with water? Actually I don’t know for sure. You generally need to add something acidic when baking only with baking powder. You’ve got that backwards. You need to add something acidic when using baking _soda_. Baking _powder_ has acids included. And baking soda will _not_ react with water, even hot water. Here’s Alton brown [boiling pretzels](http://www.foodnetwork.com/videos/altons-homemade-soft-pretzels-0170183) in a baking soda bath in lieu of lye. I’ve made that recipe, and if anything it’s a pain in the ass to even get the baking soda to dissolve. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/35 "2017-07-17T18:00:35Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > But I don’t know why, in baking the two ingredients can be substituted to rise a mix, however the amounts won’t be the same and the addition of acid is needed for just baking soda. Simple answer: baking powder is a mix of baking soda and something else. Ergo, you need more baking soda to add the same amount of baking powder. It’s not quite that simple, so the ratios aren’t quite so simple, but that’s the basic point. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/36 "2017-07-17T18:09:40Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > You’ve got that backwards. You need to add something acidic when using baking _soda_. Baking _powder_ has acids included. > > And baking soda will _not_ react with water, even hot water. Here’s Alton brown [boiling pretzels](http://www.foodnetwork.com/videos/altons-homemade-soft-pretzels-0170183) in a baking soda bath in lieu of lye. I’ve made that recipe, and if anything it’s a pain in the ass to even get the baking soda to dissolve. Right, that is reversed. I have made pretzels with baking soda in the bath, didn’t have a problem with getting it to dissolve. ETA: Did you add the soda to the water when it was boiling? It’s been a while but I think that’s what I did. > [@Irishman](#): > > Simple answer: baking powder is a mix of baking soda and something else. Ergo, you need more baking soda to add the same amount of baking powder. > > It’s not quite that simple, so the ratios aren’t quite so simple, but that’s the basic point. Yes, thanks, the part I didn’t understand is how the two products could be confused because of the difference, thus my belief that it is simply a translation issue. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/37 "2017-07-17T19:08:58Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Right, that is reversed. I have made pretzels with baking soda in the bath, didn’t have a problem with getting it to dissolve. > > ETA: Did you add the soda to the water when it was boiling? It’s been a while but I think that’s what I did. I don’t remember. I think I may have been worried that the soda would splash out if I added it to boiling water, so I added it early. Last time I tried this [procedure](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/15/dining/15curious.html), where you bake the baking soda ahead of time to make a stronger alkali. It did make a noticeable improvement in the color and “bite” flavor of the pretzels. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/38 "2017-07-17T19:43:41Z")
Yup, I mentioned that in post 12: “It can be converted to sodium carbonate by high temperatures, but at room temperature is stable indefinitely.” It’s also known as “washing soda”, which presumably means that it was once used in making detergents. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338/39 "2017-07-17T20:07:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yup, I mentioned that in post 12: “It can be converted to sodium carbonate by high temperatures, but at room temperature is stable indefinitely.” It’s also known as “washing soda”, which presumably means that it was once used in making detergents. Also known as ‘soda ash’. I had to look it up to check but the development of the [Leblanc Process](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leblanc_process) is something I read about long long ago. Leblanc won a prize for developing the process to make the substance out of ordinary salt. He didn’t get the money promised and things didn’t turn out very well at all for him. [Arm&Hammer Super Washing Soda](http://www.armandhammer.com/FAQ/FabricCare.aspx)is still made from sodium carbonate. “ARM & HAMMER™ Super Washing Soda is 100% sodium carbonate and it is used as a laundry booster and general household cleaner. ARM & HAMMER™ Baking Soda is 100% sodium bicarbonate and has a myriad of household cleaning, personal care, and deodorizing uses, as well as being a leavening agent. It is important to note that these two are two very different products and cannot be substituted for one another.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-bisquick-really-go-bad/791338.md?page=1)