# Can blue states pass laws giving citizens the ability to sue red states where people die from lack of abortion access **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 11, 2022, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266 "2022-05-11T05:13:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/1 "2022-05-11T05:13:51Z")
With all the red states talking about suing medical practitioners and patients who go to another state to get an abortion, could a blue state pass a law allowing its citizens to sue (either the state or members of the legislature) who, because of the abortion ban caused illness or death among people denied abortions? Example. A brother and sister live in California and Louisiana respectively. The sister in Louisiana has an ectopic pregnancy and can’t get an abortion, and dies. Can California pass a law giving the brother the ability to sue the government of Louisiana, or sue the legislators who passed an abortion ban, for killing his sister by denying her medical care? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/2 "2022-05-11T12:39:41Z")
I would say that based on state sovereignty that only Louisiana can give people standing to sue Louisiana _unless_ it is a violation at the Federal level in which case California has no say whatsoever because it is a Fed issue… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/3 "2022-05-11T12:50:54Z")
Perhaps a case can be brought on wrongful death / denial of needed medical attention. Though the state does enjoy a lot of sovereign immunity. It may also apply against doctors, facilities and hospitals who refuse to treat her condition. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/4 "2022-05-11T13:32:50Z")
I would say that the suit would be against the medical practitioners who did not provide adequate medical treatment. “To save the life of the mother” is part of the exceptions built into every anti-abortion bill I’ve seen, so removing an ectopic pregnancy would be within the law, and not doing so would be neglecting patient care. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/5 "2022-05-11T14:20:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I would say that based on state sovereignty that only Louisiana can give people standing to sue Louisiana _unless_ it is a violation at the Federal level in which case California has no say whatsoever because it is a Fed issue.. And the 11th Amendment says it can’t happen in federal court. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/6 "2022-05-11T17:15:37Z")
I think there are later rulings based on the 14th Amendment that if a Federal law is violated they can but that is more within our SD lawdogs knowledge base. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/7 "2022-05-12T01:42:55Z")
Possibly but we aren’t talking about a violation of a federal law. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/8 "2022-05-12T02:38:05Z")
The point was ain’t no way one state can grant standing to sue another state. The Feds can depending on what law was broken. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/9 "2022-05-12T03:06:21Z")
Unless I’m missing something no law was broken. In the scenario given the law in Louisiana was followed and the person in California wants to sue because of the outcome of following the state law. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/10 "2022-05-12T03:36:54Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Though the state does enjoy a lot of sovereign immunity. Indeed… > Under the doctrine of “state sovereign immunity,” a state cannot be sued in federal and state court without its consent. Many academics and judges struggle to make sense of modern U.S. Supreme Court jurisprudence on sovereign immunity.[1](https://www.naag.org/attorney-general-journal/state-sovereign-immunity/#fn1) While the Eleventh Amendment limits immunity to two specific situations in federal court,[2](https://www.naag.org/attorney-general-journal/state-sovereign-immunity/#fn2) the Supreme Court held that immunity derives not from the Amendment, but “from the structure of the original Constitution itself.”[3](https://www.naag.org/attorney-general-journal/state-sovereign-immunity/#fn3) Thus, the Court not only has expanded federal court immunity from suit well beyond the Eleventh Amendment’s explicit directives, but also has enshrined state sovereign immunity _in state courts_ . As a result, in its own court, a state can invoke immunity even when sued under an otherwise valid federal law[4](https://www.naag.org/attorney-general-journal/state-sovereign-immunity/#fn4) and has full authority to define the scope of their immunity from suits based on its own law. This has prompted the creation of a variety of sovereign immunity regimes among the states. > > [SOURCE](https://www.naag.org/attorney-general-journal/state-sovereign-immunity/) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/11 "2022-05-15T14:22:09Z")
That’s right. I forgot there was a SCOTUS case (I forget which) basically said that states were immune from (at least certain) Federal Laws. Specifically it was about Florida and indirectly it gave public school teachers (as actors for the state) permission to violate copyright law with material in the teaching of their classroom. OK I know that was all over the place and I wish I remembered the case, but looking for it I discovered _Allen v Cooper_ (2020) where SCOTUS said > Held: Congress lacked authority to abrogate the States’ immunity from copyright infringement suits in the CRCA. Pp. 4–17. So my questions are: are there any Federal Laws that a state is **not** immune from? Is a state immune from being sued from **any** Constitutional violation? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/12 "2022-05-15T14:53:08Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The sister in Louisiana has an ectopic pregnancy and can’t get an abortion, and dies. That is an unlikely scenario. Even the most dedicated pro-lifer will allow abortion to save the mother’s life. Most, probably all, anti abortion legislation will have an exception in the case of ectopic pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/13 "2022-05-15T15:53:00Z")
The embryo will die and possibly kill the mother. If only God had the power to save both. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-blue-states-pass-laws-giving-citizens-the-ability-to-sue-red-states-where-people-die-from-lack-of-abortion-access/964266/14 "2022-05-15T16:10:49Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Most, probably all, anti abortion legislation will have an exception in the case of ectopic pregnancy. I wish I shared that optimism. [Overturning Roe Could Make Ectopic Pregnancies Extremely Dangerous](https://newrepublic.com/article/166411/ectopic-pregnancy-roe-abortion-ban). From the story > A [sweeping new bill](https://www.wwno.org/2022-05-05/louisiana-bill-would-allow-murder-charges-for-abortions-opponents-call-it-barbaric) under consideration in Louisiana would allow prosecutors to charge anyone who undergoes or provides an abortion with murder, which opponents worry could result in penalizing women who experience miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies. The legislation [changes the legal definition](https://www.fox9.com/news/louisiana-abortion-homicide-plan-b-illegal) of a “person” from a fertilized egg that has been implanted in the womb to simply a fertilized egg. That change could be disastrous. And since most republicans are not wise in the ways of science - people will suffer.