# Can Brown really beat Coakley for the MA Senate seat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114 "2010-01-15T19:49:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/81 "2010-01-17T13:52:43Z")
At this point, I’ve almost given up caring about who wins. I just want the damned campaign phone calls to stop already. We’re getting multiple calls every day from both campaigns and third parties who have an interest in either candidate winning. It wouldn’t surprise me if we had 10 or more calls yesterday. I find Scott Brown highly irritating with his “independent thinker” routine. He’s not an independent thinker at all, based on his ads. He sounds like a typical conservative politician. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/82 "2010-01-17T13:59:36Z")
Is Scott Brown’s college basketball playing / American Idol semi-finalist [daughter](http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060309/060309_idol_vmed7p.widec.jpg) campaigning for him at all? I’m not a basketball fan, I’m not an American Idol fan, and I am personally far enough to the left that I consider the Democrats to be too conservative . . . . . . and yet, [she is a young woman who could suceed in getting me to subscribe to a _wide variety_ of newsletters](http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ZEX7oRr7a1c/SweshEz0-EI/AAAAAAAAOi8/M5WcG1vxt6I/s576/124-TPolen-5433.jpg). _doorbell rings_ [“Good afternoon, I’m with the Scott Brown campaign and we need your support. Do you have a few minutes to discuss the upcoming election?”](http://naculturalcouncil.com/images/AylasPhoto.JPG) Well, _hello_. Won’t you come in? I’ll fix us some coffee. [_Yowza!_](http://www.bostonmagazine.com/images/uploads/articles/6278_article.jpg) (Incidentally, I had never heard of this woman before this Thread sent me to wiki to read up on her father.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/83 "2010-01-17T16:59:59Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I know this is a joke, but it does make me wonder just how important this thing is to health care reform, and the agenda of an entire Presidency for the next 3-7 years. I know much bigger things have revolved around much smaller events, but it’s hard to tell hyperbole and partisan hopes from reality. > > Also, I’ve seen a comment from one liberal in MA that the polls are actually _helping_ the Democratic cause, by scaring Dem voters who have been, up to now, complacent or apathetic. I guess that’s why polls seem to be so unstable and useless. I’m starting to think we’ve got too many analysts out there with too much time on their hands. Sure, this is a very interesting race, but all the analysis I’ve seen over the last few days (and I’ve seen LOTS) is based on that one poll I cited in the OP. I’d like to see some more polling data from different sources to see just how close this race really is. > [@bienville](#): > > ``` > Is Scott Brown's college basketball playing / American Idol semi-finalist daughter campaigning for him at all? > > ``` > > \ > > Yowza! Yowza, indeed! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/84 "2010-01-17T17:12:53Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Is Scott Brown’s college basketball playing / American Idol semi-finalist [daughter](http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060309/060309_idol_vmed7p.widec.jpg) campaigning for him at all? Not in person, at least not much, but she and her sister have done radio spots complaining that Coakley is being mean to their Daddy. Brown himself has made ads complaining that Coakley’s ads are negative and have gone too far - but mainly she’s just called him a Republican and pointed out his voting record. He’s gone after the “business as usual Washington crowd spending all your money” as if enough people don’t remember the last decade. And, sadly, he may be right. > [@ShadowFacts](#): > > And I repeat…“Republicans in open races [in Mass.] typically get at least 45 percent of the vote.” Brown’s success to date is not nearly as significant as you clearly want it to be. Right. That’s pretty much their ceiling, too, unless they appear reasonable in the nearly-extinct Northeastern Republican way. But that hasn’t happened lately. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/85 "2010-01-17T18:04:55Z")
If Brown wins, by however thin a margin, this will spell the certain doom of the Dems come the next election. If Brown loses by however thin a margin, this will spell the certain doom of the Dems come the next election. If Coakley crushes Brown, this will simply be another example of Democrat thuggery, the Democrat machine, and the liberal media…well, you know the rest. ---
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/86 "2010-01-17T18:16:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not in person, at least not much, but she and her sister have done radio spots complaining that Coakley is being mean to their Daddy. > > Brown himself has made ads complaining that Coakley’s ads are negative and have gone too far - but mainly she’s just called him a Republican and pointed out his voting record. He’s gone after the “business as usual Washington crowd spending all your money” as if enough people don’t remember the last decade. And, sadly, he may be right. > > Right. That’s pretty much their ceiling, too, unless they appear reasonable in the nearly-extinct Northeastern Republican way. But that hasn’t happened lately. Well that whole thing about Brown trying to prevent rape victims from getting treatment was pretty over the top. (Yes I know I know. (sarcasm on)Democrats are actually physically incapable of lying about Republican. They can’t do it and it can’t happen, it’s impossible.(sarcasm off)) Anyway here’s a link about it at some obviously right wing extremist site. [http://factcheck.org/2010/01/bay-state-battle/](http://factcheck.org/2010/01/bay-state-battle/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/87 "2010-01-17T18:24:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …If Coakley crushes Brown, this will simply be another example of Democrat thuggery, the Democrat machine, and the liberal media…well, you know the rest. Well, when someone actually makes that argument in this or any other thread, I will personally cite your post to rebut it. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/88 "2010-01-17T18:43:52Z")
> [@notsoheavyd3](#): > > Well that whole thing about Brown trying to prevent rape victims from getting treatment was pretty over the top. (Yes I know I know. (sarcasm on)Democrats are actually physically incapable of lying about Republican. They can’t do it and it can’t happen, it’s impossible.(sarcasm off)) > Anyway here’s a link about it at some obviously right wing extremist site. > > [http://factcheck.org/2010/01/bay-state-battle/](http://factcheck.org/2010/01/bay-state-battle/) Not to defend the ad in question, which is clearly over the top, and could be called misleading if one wanted to be extremely generous, but Brown’s actual position, of allowing hospital staff to not inform rape victims of the morning after pill is pretty vile itself. I really don’t know why Coakley couldn’t just make an honest ad pointing that out. Maybe she’s taking advice from the Kerry Healy campaign and trying to throw “rape” and your opponents name together as much as possible. I think Healy lost by 23 points, so I don’t know why anyone would try to replicate their methods, but I haven’t seen anything to indicate that the Coakley campaign has even that much of a clue. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/89 "2010-01-17T18:50:04Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > ..I really don’t know why Coakley couldn’t just make an honest ad pointing that out… To provoke a denial, of course. To force Brown to deny something utterly repulsive by explaining that it was merely disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/90 "2010-01-17T19:01:36Z")
What did Brown do that was utterly repulsive? ---
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/91 "2010-01-17T19:25:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What did Brown do that was utterly repulsive? I have no idea since the second paragraph of the ammendent says > [@](#): > > If it is deemed that said employee, physician or nurse of any facility has a sincerely held religious conflict administering the contraception, then said treating facility shall have in place a validated referral procedure policy for referring patients for administration of the emergency contraception that will administer the emergency contraception, which may include a contract with another facility. The referrals shall be made at no additional cost to the patient. That sounds to me that if you want to take a religious exemption you actually need to offer referals instead. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/92 "2010-01-17T19:36:54Z")
The ad suggested that Brown was throwing up roadblocks to _any_ treatment of a rape victim, which would be, of course, utterly repulsive. The actual language merely suggests procedural delays with a hint of disapproval on the part of care givers, which is just about that last thing a rape victim needs. Perhaps nothing more than a minor additional insult for someone in a state of horror and humiliation, but disgusting, nonetheless. Besides which, what is the point? What set of caregivers to rape victims have not already made such personal moral determinations? Is anyone in such a situation not aware that they may be asked to deliver emergency contraception? If one has some arcane theological objection to such treatment, they should not be in the rape emergency treatment facility to begin with, surely there are other useful things they might be doing? So Mr. Browns amendment appears to free such an individual from performing actions they almost certainly would be excused from in advance, they wouldn’t be there in the first place. It might then fairly be seen as a meaningless gesture towards “pro-life” extremists, having no real effect but to burnish credentials. Merely disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/93 "2010-01-17T20:11:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The ad suggested that Brown was throwing up roadblocks to _any_ treatment of a rape victim, which would be, of course, utterly repulsive. The actual language merely suggests procedural delays with a hint of disapproval on the part of care givers, which is just about that last thing a rape victim needs. Perhaps nothing more than a minor additional insult for someone in a state of horror and humiliation, but disgusting, nonetheless. > > Besides which, what is the point? What set of caregivers to rape victims have not already made such personal moral determinations? Is anyone in such a situation not aware that they may be asked to deliver emergency contraception? Well, the point is they weren’t required to so until that particular piece of legislation was put forward. > [@](#): > > If one has some arcane theological objection to such treatment, they should not be in the rape emergency treatment facility to begin with, surely there are other useful things they might be doing? You crazy Texans with your folksy humor! We’re talking about Massachusetts, here, which is heavily Catholic. Nothing “arcane” about standard Catholic theology. > [@](#): > > So Mr. Browns amendment appears to free such an individual from performing actions they almost certainly would be excused from in advance, they wouldn’t be there in the first place. It might then fairly be seen as a meaningless gesture towards “pro-life” extremists, having no real effect but to burnish credentials. Merely disgusting. No. The bill put forward would have required medical staff to provide info about the morning after pill. Brown sought to seek an escape clause for those whose religion conflicted with that requirement, while offering an alternative to the rape victim to be treated by others. Frankly, I don’t like the government legislating treatment decisions like this. When you start doing that, you run into exactly this kind of problem. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/94 "2010-01-17T21:19:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …You crazy Texans with your folksy humor! We’re talking about Massachusetts, here, which is heavily Catholic. Nothing “arcane” about standard Catholic theology… While such simplistic views might be common amongst rural Texans, one is blessed to grow up in the shadow of Baylor University, home of the feared and dreaded Baylor Bears, and to bask in the sophisticated salons of Waco, “The Athens on the Brazos”. While we remain largely immune to post-modernist irony, many major advances in Baptist theology can be traced to Waco. And we were quite aware of other faith traditions, there being any number of Catholics in Tyler, Kileen, and Bellmead. Jews were, of course, mostly in Temple. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/95 "2010-01-18T15:23:43Z")
Wow. New polling data from the Suffolk folks shows a double digit lead for Brown. Just hearing that now on MSNBC. Another interesting tidbit-- I noticed that only one cable news outlet showed Obama’s address live yesterday. Guess which one? Fox. The other two were showing more Haiti coverage. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/96 "2010-01-18T16:46:07Z")
Well, I’m just guessing here, but my guess would be that Fox’s line on it was about Obama’s desperate, last-ditch effort to save his repudiated and wildly unpopular socialist agenda, so, yeah, I can see them featuring that. As for the rest of the main stream tedia, they probably considered it a matter mostly local. Or maybe it was simply an expression of human decency, though I am reluctant to make such a leap. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/97 "2010-01-18T18:02:24Z")
Well, ALL the news outlets are presenting it as a last ditch effort, but that’s a nice little “just so” argument. The idea that this is just a “local” matter is actually pretty funny, though. I’ll give a B for effort. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/98 "2010-01-18T18:14:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > many major advances in Baptist theology can be traced to Waco. 😃 No doubt! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/99 "2010-01-18T18:44:15Z")
[You can find any result you like in one poll or another.](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2010/01/17/polls_vary_in_predictions_of_senator_election_outcome_in_mass/) > [@](#): > > In the last week, one poll showed Coakley, the Democrat, leading Brown, the Republican, by 14 points. > > But that poll was conducted by a longtime Democratic pollster, Mark Mellman. > > Another poll showed Coakley trailing Brown by 15 points, but was conducted by Pajamas Media, a conservative website with ties to Republican consultants. It used automated phone calls, which some pollsters say are not as reliable as live interviews. > > Yet another poll, by Suffolk University, showed Brown ahead by 4 points, while still another, commissioned by the liberal blog BlueMassGroup, showed Coakley ahead by 8 points. Only one more day of robocalls … thank Og for Caller ID … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114/100 "2010-01-18T19:19:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, ALL the news outlets are presenting it as a last ditch effort, but that’s a nice little “just so” argument. The idea that this is just a “local” matter is actually pretty funny, though. I’ll give a B for effort. You can, of course, cite this “ALL the news outlets…”. I’ll take it as a given, of course, knowing your strictly non-partisan views, but others might want the reassurance. You know, just for the sake of formality… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-brown-really-beat-coakley-for-the-ma-senate-seat/525114.md?page=6)