# Can Cash Desposits or Withdrawals Trigger Big Brother? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127 "2004-12-29T18:28:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jfortun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2acd7d/32.png) [@jfortun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfortun)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/1 "2004-12-29T18:28:58Z")
If one were to make a large cash deposit or a large cash withdrawal from one’s own bank account does the bank alert the IRS? If so, how much can one can one deposit or withdraw before the government sticks its nose in? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/2 "2004-12-29T18:39:02Z")
The banks are supposed to report any withdrawal over $10,000. More details can be had in this thread: [URL=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=256063&highlight=limbaugh How Much Cash From a Bank? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/3 "2004-12-29T18:40:57Z")
EVERY time I don’t preview! [How Much Cash From a Bank?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=256063) ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/4 "2004-12-29T18:53:43Z")
What if I were to withdraw $9,999, then go back and do it again? Would it then be reported? ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/5 "2004-12-29T18:53:48Z")
Big cash transactions for dummies: The bank is required to file what’s called a Cash Transaction Report (CTR) for any customer who deposits or withdraws more than $10,000 in cash per day. They’re also required to report suspicions of “structuring” where it appears the customer is making cash transactions over a series of days or at multiple branches to avoid the $10,000 trigger. A bank’s membership in FDIC does not affect this law. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/6 "2004-12-29T18:55:19Z")
\*\*Duderdude2 \*\* - Yes. That would be considered as structuring. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/7 "2004-12-29T19:09:06Z")
The IRS description of types of [Currency Transaction Reports](http://www.irs.gov/compliance/enforcement/article/0,,id=112228,00.html) > [@](#): > > **Currency Transaction Report (CTR)** Filed by financial institutions that engage in a currency transaction in excess of $10,000 > **Currency Transaction Report Casino (CTRC)** Filed by a casino to report currency transactions in excess of $10,000. > **Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR)** Filed by individuals to report a financial interest in or signatory authority over one or more accounts in foreign countries, if the aggregate value of these accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year. > **IRS Form 8300** , Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business Filed by persons engaged in a trade or business who, in the course of that trade or business, receives more than $10,000 in cash in one transaction or two or more related transactions within a twelve month period. > **Suspicious Activity Report (SAR)** Filed on transactions or attempted transactions involving at least $5,000 that the financial institution knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect the money was derived from illegal activities. Also filed when transactions are part of a plan to violate federal laws and financial reporting requirements (structuring) From [Suspicious Activity Reporting](http://www.triacnet.com/hottopic/9912-sar.htm): [quote] There are five general types of activity that must be reported on the SAR: Any kind of insider abuse of a financial institution, involving any amount, when detected; [ul][li] Federal crimes against, or involving transactions conducted through, a financial institution that the financial institution detects and that involve at least $5,000 if a suspect can be identified, or at least $25,000 regardless of whether a suspect can be identified; [/li] [li] Transactions of at least $5,000 that the institution knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect involve funds from illegal activities or are structured to attempt to hide those funds; [/li] [li] Transactions of at least $5,000 that the institution knows, suspects or has reason to suspect are designed to evade any regulations promulgated under the BSA; and [/li] [li]Transactions of at least $5,000 that the institution knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect have no business or apparent lawful purpose or are not the sort in which the particular customer would normally be expected to engage and for which the institution knows of no reasonable explanation after due investigation.[/ul] [/li][/quote] > [@](#): > > The SAR must be filed either in paper form or on magnetic media (tapes or diskettes). They are sent to the computing center of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) for input into the SAR System. > [@](#): > > Interested parties include (deep breath): the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, the Department of Justice, the Customs Service, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the United States Postal Inspection Service. But it doesn’t stop there. There are also many state agencies and other law enforcement groups. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/8 "2004-12-29T19:13:58Z")
Note that “structuring” transactions to avoid the reporting requirements is sometimes itself a felony. So don’t try it. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/9 "2004-12-29T19:29:20Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Note that “structuring” transactions to avoid the reporting requirements is sometimes itself a felony. So don’t try it. > > –Cliffy I don’t even have enough money to try it 😉 Merely curious at the prospect. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/10 "2004-12-29T21:45:39Z")
[Semi-unrelated but somewhat interesting article on gambling winnings](http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/news/20010122a.asp) (warning, popup) ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/11 "2004-12-30T01:16:01Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Note that “structuring” transactions to avoid the reporting requirements is sometimes itself a felony. So don’t try it. > > –Cliffy Could you elaborate on the “sometimes” bit? I presume just making two $9999 transactions over two days isn’t enough to get hauled off to jail? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/12 "2004-12-30T03:33:28Z")
Apparently, Rush Limbaugh did those sort of transactions to finance his prescription drug addiction. The Feds apparently caught onto those withdrawals. [Link.](http://billmon.org/archives/000891.html) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/13 "2004-12-30T06:04:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Could you elaborate on the “sometimes” bit? I presume just making two $9999 transactions over two days isn’t enough to get hauled off to jail? Suppose one was liquidating an estate that included some rare but not top-of-the-line cars, each valued between $8,000 and $9,999. Suppose further that one was offered $8700 for the Corvair in good condition and offered $9500 for the '68 Camaro. Further suppose that the buyers (who were distinct and separate) for their own reasons insisted on paying cash. Obviously one had better report the transactions, but I doubt that the Feds would put one in jail (providing there was sufficient documentation) for having sold the cars for cash. ---
**Author:** ![RayMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e495f1/32.png) [@RayMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RayMan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/14 "2004-12-30T07:03:29Z")
I’ve filled out lots of these CTRs and SARs in the past as a bank employee. These documents are meant to leave a verifiable paper trail should prosecutors someday feel the need to examine your financial transactions. They’re meant to help prevent money laundering, tax evasion and the like. There is nothing illegal, in and of itself, with making large cash tranactions. You can sell cars (or anything else) for $9,999 in cash as often as you like, and deposit said cash without a fear in the world, provided you pay the necessary taxes. Large cash transactions do not trigger an investigation by the IRS or anyone else. It’s the other way around–If some law enforcement agency suspects certain illegal activity, they may choose to check out what you do at the bank. I would say that almost 100% of CTRs are filed and never examined by anyone at all. Interestingly, it is also illegal for a bank employee to alert you to the fact that your transaction will generate a CTR, or to inform you of some way to circumvent the generation of a CTR (structuring). ---
**Author:** ![cedric45](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@cedric45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cedric45)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/15 "2004-12-30T13:18:27Z")
Is it reported when you **pay** a bill with cash? Let’s pretend/hope you find a box of cash under the floor boards while remodeling your house or you pick up a bag with several thousands dollars out of the ditch (obvious where it came from) and you then go to the bank and pay off your car. Are any flags raised? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cash-desposits-or-withdrawals-trigger-big-brother/282127/16 "2004-12-30T14:11:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Suppose one was liquidating an estate that included some rare but not top-of-the-line cars, each valued between $8,000 and $9,999. Suppose further that one was offered $8700 for the Corvair in good condition and offered $9500 for the '68 Camaro. Further suppose that the buyers (who were distinct and separate) for their own reasons insisted on paying cash. Obviously one had better report the transactions, but I doubt that the Feds would put one in jail (providing there was sufficient documentation) for having sold the cars for cash. In my mind, this post was read by Fat Tony. **tomndebb** , newest enforcer for the Cecilian Mafia. 😃