# Can cities just choose not to enforce state laws **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 31, 2022, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405 "2022-05-31T04:40:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/21 "2022-05-31T20:32:27Z")
What if a doctor in Connecticut had a video consultation over the internet with a woman in Texas and then mailed her abortion pills? Could Texas ask for the doctor’s extradition in that case and expect it to happen? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/22 "2022-05-31T20:35:17Z")
The doctor in Connecticut wasn’t in Texas and didn’t flee from Texas. Any act the doctor performed occurred in Connecticut where it was not a crime. Connecticut governor doesn’t have the discretion to extradite. This scenario is no doubt a large part of the reason for the CT law ( and similar ones in other states) ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/23 "2022-05-31T20:45:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What if a doctor in Connecticut had a video consultation over the internet with a woman in Texas and then mailed her abortion pills? Could Texas ask for the doctor’s extradition in that case and expect it to happen? > [@doreen](#): > > The doctor in Connecticut wasn’t in Texas and didn’t flee from Texas. Any act the doctor performed occurred in Connecticut where it was not a crime. Connecticut governor doesn’t have the discretion to extradite. This scenario is no doubt a large part of the reason for the CT law ( and similar ones in other states) Just to throw a wrench into this hypothetical, there is room for the scenario to get uglier. What if the Texas Rangers, with an arrest warrant signed by a Texas judge, go to another state to arrest that abortion provider? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/24 "2022-05-31T20:45:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think the problem is an abortion clinic needs a building to operate in. It would be trivial for state police to walk in and arrest everyone there. What charge would they be arrested on? Being inside a building where the government thinks some crimes may have occurred at some point? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/25 "2022-05-31T20:46:49Z")
Presumably they would have evidence that abortions were being performed there and have warrants in hand. And anyone else there that they did not have a warrant for might incriminate themselves. If some young woman is walking out and they ask her why she was there and she says she got an abortion they can nab her too. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/26 "2022-05-31T20:59:55Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Presumably they would have evidence that abortions were being performed there and have warrants in hand. If they had evidence that shoplifting was going on in a store, would they have sufficient grounds for going into the store at some random time and arresting everyone who was inside? Generally speaking, you have a warrant to arrest individuals who you have evidence have committed crimes not a warrant to arrest everyone who is at a location where you have evidence a crime occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/27 "2022-05-31T21:05:55Z")
Let’s say I am at my friend’s house just hanging out. I am unaware that he is a drug dealer. While I am there the police raid the place. I may not be arrested but I bet I will be taken to the station and questioned at length. I do not think they will just let me walk away. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/28 "2022-05-31T21:07:17Z")
It’s ben a long time - but my is recollection the Texas rangers have no authority to enforce a Texas warrant in NJ and just bring the person back to Texas. Otherwise, when I knew where a fugitive parolee was across the border in NJ or CT, I could have just driven there to pick him/her up rather than having my warrant entered in NCIC, sending a copy and the location to the local PD , have them pick the fugitive up and wait for 1) the fugitive to waive extradition 2) a judge to honor the waiver signed when the parolee was released 3) the governor of my state to issue a Governor’s warrant and send it to the other state So I guess the Rangers could try that - but since they don’t have jurisdiction in Connecticut , that would cause a much bigger mess that I suspect Texas would not want to get into. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/29 "2022-05-31T21:11:52Z")
And if they have not arrested you, you are free to leave. That’s pretty much what arrest means - to be in custody. And if you are not in custody , you are free to leave. They can certainly take you into custody and release you without charging you , but they need probable cause to take you to the station. Which they may have if the drugs/guns are on the table and accessible to you when they burst in. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/30 "2022-05-31T21:29:22Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > And if they have not arrested you, you are free to leave. Technically true but the reality seems to be very different. We have done the “never talk to police” discussion here on the SDMB before. The common answers are: 1. People talk to police all the time when they shouldn’t and often dig their own hole thinking they are talking their way out of arrest (which rarely happens). 2. If you ask the police if you are free to leave, they say yes, and you head to the door you won’t get to the door before they arrest you. Chances are most people don’t know enough to even ask that question and then head to the door. 3. Even if the arrest is BS they can hold you for 24-48 hours (I think…doubtless differs state-to-state). 4. The police can lie to you all they want. They can tell you how much trouble you are in if you don’t talk. Few are aware that the best course of action is to STFU. I can easily imagine some young woman getting scooped up in a raid and the police running roughshod over her. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/31 "2022-05-31T21:32:31Z")
There’s actually a lot of precedent on this sort of thing with both cities and states passing resolutions for the police not to cooperate with Immigration when dealing with low-level nonviolent offenders. See sanctuary cities generally and California’s TRUST Act in particular. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/32 "2022-05-31T21:39:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If you ask the police if you are free to leave, they say yes, and you head to the door you won’t get to the door before they arrest you. Chances are most people don’t know enough to even ask that question and then head to the door. I am absolutely not going to say that the police always do what they are supposed to - but they are not going to arrest everyone at an abortion clinic without having probable cause for each and every person. Because believe me, the Texas Rangers do not want to take a chance on arresting a staff member (especially a doctor) on their first day who couldn’t possibly have participated in the abortion the rangers know about that happened two weeks ago or the senator’s wife who is in the waiting room for her Pap smear appointment. Because remember, abortions won’t be talking place in place that are highly advertised as abortion clinics - they will be happening where other women are getting Pap smears, breast exams, pre-natal care etc. I’m not saying the Rangers can’t arrest people for violating the abortion law if the city won’t enforce it . I’m just saying its not as easy as raiding “an abortion clinic” and arresting everyone who happens to be inside at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/33 "2022-05-31T21:50:44Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I don’t think there’s any way for a state to force a city to enforce city laws. There are many ways for a state to force a city to enforce its laws. Just as the federal government does to states, it can threaten to withhold funds unless the laws are enforced. That’s proved extremely effective over the years. Clever lawyers can no doubt dream up many other tactics and long to do so. Enforcement also crosses over into preemption laws. > **[Preemption laws prevent cities from acting on everything from labor and...](https://www.epi.org/blog/preemption-laws-prevent-cities-from-acting-on-everything-from-labor-and-employment-to-gun-safety/)** > > On Valentine’s Day, a 19 year-old with a legally purchased AR-15 assault rifle stormed into Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida and murdered 14 students, and 3 educators. In Florida, an AR-15 military-style assault rifle is... Now there is probably a technical distinction between requiring a city to enforce its state-sanctioned laws and preventing them from enforcing those which are not. I can’t find in a quick search examples of the former. If that’s what you’re quibbling about, then I’m going to let a lawyer come in and explain the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/34 "2022-05-31T22:07:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If this is a hijack let me know (but I think it fits here well): > > What happens if Texas asks another state to extradite a doctor or woman who got an abortion to Texas because they broke Texas abortion laws and the other state refuses? > > The US constitution says states have to extradite someone but what happens if the state simply refuses to comply? Connecticut has [passed a law protecting abortion seekers and providers](https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/05/politics/connecticut-abortion-protection-law-out-of-state-lawsuits/index.html). My understanding is that this is going to create a situation similiar to the fugitive slave act of 1850 which required free states to send escaped slaves back to slave states. The northern free states just found loopholes to avoid enforcing the federal law. I’m sure the right wing supreme court will demand blue states submit to the rules of red states on this issue, but I’m guessing blue states will find loopholes. One theory I’ve heard though is what happens with flights? Like lets say a doctor in California is flying to florida, but he travels through texas airspace, or his plane has a layover in Texas. Can he be arrested in the Texas airport? Can Texas law enforcement demand the airline land the plane in Texas so he can be arrested? How is flying across country going to be affected for abortion providers in blue states? Its going to be a huge mess. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/35 "2022-05-31T22:17:31Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > One theory I’ve heard though is what happens with flights? Like lets say a doctor in California is flying to florida, but he travels through texas airspace, or his plane has a layover in Texas. Can he be arrested in the Texas airport? Can Texas law enforcement demand the airline land the plane in Texas so he can be arrested? How is flying across country going to be affected for abortion providers in blue states? I would be shocked if Texas tried to force a commercial plane to land so they could arrest someone. They would piss off pretty much everyone involved and I doubt it is worth it to them to nab one doctor. But, if the plane lands in Texas for whatever reason and someone is on the plane that Texas wants to arrest then they certainly could go on the plane and get them. IIRC this has even happened internationally. As soon as someone the country wants to prosecute lands on their soil they are fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/36 "2022-05-31T23:05:49Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > The doctor in Connecticut wasn’t in Texas and didn’t flee from Texas. Any act the doctor performed occurred in Connecticut where it was not a crime. Connecticut governor doesn’t have the discretion to extradite. This scenario is no doubt a large part of the reason for the CT law ( and similar ones in other states) I’m not sure that’s right. Generally, for legal and regulatory purposes, for telemedicine, the practice of medicine is viewed as taking place where the patient is located. If our hypothetical doctor was authorized to practice (remotely) in Texas, then he must abide by Texas’ laws and regulations for the practice of medicine. If he was not authorized, then he’s probably guilty of the unauthorized practice of medicine in Texas. To continue the hypothetical, if the Connecticut doctor then “mailed abortion pills” to Texas, that probably also invites a number of legal concerns that would properly be prosecuted in Texas. Like unlawful dispensing or distributing of drugs. It would undermine the whole idea of the practice of telemedicine if the state the patient was in was unable to enforce its regulations in those situations. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/37 "2022-05-31T23:43:36Z")
Do you have a sense of what the Connecticut law does then? Clearly Connecticut is trying to protect these doctors. Does it have any real effect or is it all window dressing? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/38 "2022-05-31T23:45:13Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The state can enforce state laws inside the city. The state can dissolve the city and take over the city’s function. But I don’t think there’s any way for a state to force a city to enforce city laws. The state doesn’t have to dissolve the city to take over its functions. Several states have provisions that allow for the appointment of an emergency manager or control board to a distressed city who have varying levels of authority over existing city operations. And that level of authority is entirely up to state statutes. There’s no reason why a state couldn’t allow the appointment an emergency manager with authority to direct the city’s police and prosecutors. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/39 "2022-06-01T00:23:39Z")
I don’t know what Texas has done regarding telemedicine and the doctor may well be guilty of the unauthorized practice of medicine in Texas and can be prosecuted for that if Texas ever gets ahold of the doctor. And the same for mailing the pills. But the doctor cannot have fled Texas if the doctor was never in Texas and the new law in Connecticut does not give the governor the discretion to extradite someone who did not flee the other state. Federal law and the Constitution only requires extradition when the person fled the other state. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405/40 "2022-06-01T00:56:03Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There are many ways for a state to force a city to enforce its laws. Just as the federal government does to states, it can threaten to withhold funds unless the laws are enforced. I am talking about whether there exists a mechanism by which a state can legally enjoin a city government to enforce the city’s own laws (or state laws, or federal laws). Not whether larger entities can indirectly find ways to bully smaller entities, which goes without saying. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > If that’s what you’re quibbling about, then I’m going to let a lawyer come in and explain the difference. Perhaps that would be for the best. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-cities-just-choose-not-to-enforce-state-laws/965405.md?page=3)