# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 128
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2541 "2018-09-22T19:48:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s pretty clear that the SoL precludes any criminal investigation being possible. I was under the impression that Maryland didn’t have a statute of limitations for this charge. Is that not correct? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2542 "2018-09-22T19:51:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Anybody in that social circle would have known these things, even the young men/boys in that circle. It adds nothing to the credence of her allegation. Wait a sec… where on you corroborated/uncorroborated for these details in her story? You seem to be saying that there is evidence supporting these details which is the definition of corroboration. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2543 "2018-09-22T19:53:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How has Grassley disrespected her or how has she been “bullied”? That word sounds like millennial safe space bullshit. What he said was come here and testify, public or private, we will hear your story. How does that deserve that shitty response from her attorneys? I didn’t use the word “bullied” (not sure what you’re quoting). But in terms of how he’s fell short of treating a sexual assault accuser with kindness, decency, and respect – by not respecting her reasonable request for a full investigation; by not acceding to her reasonable request to subpoena Mark Judge; by pushing an unnecessary urgency and artificial timelines to the proceedings; just to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2544 "2018-09-22T19:54:33Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I hope that any person on this board who had any remaining shred of respect for you has lost it. They should have lost it long before, but this is just like a little extra shit frosting on your shit cookie. > > Whether you believe this horrifying nonsense you are spewing or you are just employing it for cynical purposes, you are a disgusting boil. You spread corruption and ignorance and you’ll never face any repercussions for it. > > I’m out. There are a lot of great people on this board, but staying here is like staying at a party where everyone has your shit on their shoes: the stench is disgusting and a nasty disease all too likely. That’ll earn you a warning, wonky. You should know you can’t insult other posters in Elections. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2545 "2018-09-22T19:55:23Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I was under the impression that Maryland didn’t have a statute of limitations for this charge. Is that not correct? Sorry, just saw your older post, I missed that. It’s the same one that states that the crime was a misdemeanor, so it seems I’m not the only one who missed it. I’ll quote it here for the benefit of **iiandyiiii** , but with the quote-in-a-quote moved because nested quotes are a pain. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Still trying to figure out if Kavanaugh could be criminally charged if Ford decided to try. After a bit of searching that didn’t turn up much, I figured I’d page through The Baltimore Sun (figuratively speaking) and found this interesting article: > [@](#): > > [Gov. Hogan rules out state police investigation of Kavanaugh allegations](http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-hogan-kavanagh-20180921-story.html) > > The Republican governor [of Maryland] was asked at a news conference about a letter Democratic state Sen. Cheryl Kagan of Montgomery sent him. She urged Hogan to take the step because the White House has not ordered the FBI to look into the allegations made by Christine Blasey Ford about Kavanaugh’s actions at a high school party. > > Hogan said he had not heard about the request, but he immediately turned it down. > > \ > > Legal experts doubt that a case could be made against Kavanaugh even if someone makes a complaint. > > For one thing, if attempted rape in the first degree was the most appropriate charge, that was a misdemeanor in the 1980s in Maryland. It did not become a felony in the state until 1996. Former Attorney General Doug Gansler, who also served as Montgomery County state’s attorney, noted that Maryland’s statute of limitations for misdemeanors for an offense committed in the 1980s expired long ago. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2546 "2018-09-22T19:57:45Z")
> **[Maryland police chief 'prepared to investigate' Brett Kavanaugh's alleged...](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/maryland-police-chief-prepared-investigate-brett-kavanaughs-alleged-sexual-assault/)** > > The police chief in the city where Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh allegedly sexually assaulted Dr. Christine Blasey Ford when they were teens said the department is prepared to investigate the accusations when and if a complaint is filed."We... > [@](#): > > “We are prepared to investigate if the victim wants to report to us, and we can determine it occurred in the County,” Montogomery City Police Chief Tom Manger said in a statement. > > Though the alleged assault took place decades ago, there is no statute of limitations for sexual assault in Maryland. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2547 "2018-09-22T20:00:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Maryland police chief 'prepared to investigate' Brett Kavanaugh's alleged sexual assault - Raw Story](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/maryland-police-chief-prepared-investigate-brett-kavanaughs-alleged-sexual-assault/) Hmm. Your link says there is not SoL, but what about 30 years ago? And if she can’t identify the house, how can they determine it was in the county? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2548 "2018-09-22T20:02:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Maryland police chief 'prepared to investigate' Brett Kavanaugh's alleged sexual assault - Raw Story](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/maryland-police-chief-prepared-investigate-brett-kavanaughs-alleged-sexual-assault/) That was the one I read before. The issue seems to be whether there was a statute of limitations at the time of the alleged crime. It seems that there was, which could mean that it can no longer be investigated. If that is the case, and if it was indeed a misdemeanor, then this really is all a fuss over nothing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2549 "2018-09-22T20:05:32Z")
Her story is credible and I have no doubt about her veracity. And smearing her is beyond reprehensible. If the GOP was smart, they would stop attacking and smearing her, and bring in memory experts, who could show memories that old are not reliable. But I firmly believe that she thinks her story happened. She is not lying. The various details shown of Judge Ks young life show that it is certainly plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2550 "2018-09-22T20:06:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ford’s testimony is evidence. So is Judge’s, and Kavanaugh’s. And any other witnesses identified by Ford. As could be lots of other evidence – travel records, photographs, and much more, potentially. No matter what the Democrats did, this is still a credible allegation, and any and all credible allegations of sexual assault must be investigated. And it’s always – _always_ – reasonable and appropriate to ask for credible allegations to be fully investigated. And never reasonable or appropriate to refuse that request for credible allegations. travel records, photographs… and much much more. coming to us from a teenage party 36 years ago. Like I said, not one shred of evidence. If there was then Feinstein would have introduced it. She didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2551 "2018-09-22T20:07:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why do we have to take the chance? There’s no other option, here, nobody with such sterling reputation? Yes, there was another option, bring it up during the hearings. That option wasn’t chosen. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2552 "2018-09-22T20:09:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > travel records, photographs… and much much more. coming to us from a teenage party 36 years ago. > > Like I said, not one shred of evidence. If there was then Feinstein would have introduced it. She didn’t. Investigations are the main way in which evidence is found. Law enforcement often starts an investigation based solely on a single report from an alleged victim. Is this really a hard concept? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2553 "2018-09-22T20:09:42Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > How can classmates of Ford have corroborated her story back in the 1980s if she never told anyone about the event until 2012 when in therapy with her husband? Nobody corroborated her story in the 1980s. She claims not to have told anyone until 2012, when she told her therapist a version that allegedly differs in detail and doesn’t mention Kavanaugh. > [@](#): > > Dr. Ford accepts the Committee’s request to provide her first-hand knowledge of Brett Kavanaugh’s sexual misconduct next week. Although many aspects of the proposal you provided via email, on September 21, 2018, at 2:33 pm, are fundamentally inconsistent with the Committee’s promise of a fair, impartial investigation into her allegations, and we are disappointed with the leaks and the bullying that have tainted the process, we are hopeful that we can reach agreement on details. Can we set up a time for later this afternoon to continue our negotiations? > > Sincerely, > > Debra S. Katz > > Lisa Banks She’s stalling, hoping that Kavanaugh will go first so she can shape her testimony. Otherwise, she will just continue stalling until they have the vote so she can complain that she wasn’t heard. Shit or get off the pot, lady. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2554 "2018-09-22T20:13:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Shit or get off the pot, lady. Don’t you worry. She will shit. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2555 "2018-09-22T20:20:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Is it not important that the therapist notes do not mention Kavanaugh and state that she was attacked by four men instead of two? As someone who has read psychiatrists’ notes for patient histories that I was in the room when interviewed … no not important at all. The psychiatrist is not creating a legal documentation and their recollection of the story they were listening to was more fixed on the emotional valence, the persisting emotional impact of the trauma being recollected, and the appropriate empathic response to it. Great history recorders they aint. What is important in terms of “credible” is that the story was told in the past. Credible is not equal to unimpeachable. If this was a trial to convict someone of a crime I’d say one credible witness is insufficient to get beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt. This is not that. To become a member of the SCOTUS there should nothing even close to _any_ doubt that the person is not someone who lies about significant events. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2556 "2018-09-22T20:24:16Z")
I don’t understand what the necessary elements for establishing a credible allegation are, based on **UV’s** posts. Let’s say a 48 year old man (John) just announces he was routinely molested by Priest Bob in the summer of 1982, while he served as altar boy. He says these incidents happened at his church, but he can’t remember where exactly. He also can’t remember exact dates. However, he vividly remembers Priest Bob undressing him on multiple occasions that summer and fondling his genitals. He can’t remember how many times exactly it happened but at least 3 times. The touching only stopped after he and his family moved out of state for unrelated reasons. The only person he’s ever told about this was his therapist 3 years ago, after he watched the movie Spotlight and started experiencing painful flashbacks. Priest Bob (now Cardinal Bob) is in the running to become the next Pope. Questions: 1. Would it be pointless to investigate this allegation because the facts suggest it would only just be “he said-he said?” 2. Would it be pointless to investigate this allegation because it happened decades ago and the statute of limitations has run out? 3. Should we not consider this a credible complaint even though available evidence shows Bob was a priest at the church at the time his accuser attended and served as altar boy? If no, what would make it credible? 4. Should we discount the allegation because the accuser can’t remember specific dates and times and locations where fondling took place, or how many times? 5. Should we discount the allegation because the accuser waited until the papal succession process started to come forward? 6. Is there anything about this scenario that makes the way we should evaluate its credibility substantially different than Ford’s allegation? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2557 "2018-09-22T20:24:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Nobody corroborated her story in the 1980s. She claims not to have told anyone until 2012, when she told her therapist a version that allegedly differs in detail and doesn’t mention Kavanaugh.She’s stalling, hoping that Kavanaugh will go first so she can shape her testimony. Otherwise, she will just continue stalling until they have the vote so she can complain that she wasn’t heard. > > Shit or get off the pot, lady. > > Regards, > Shodan Right, the deadline wasn’t a deadline to see if she wanted to continue negotiating. Grassley needs to put a stop to this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2558 "2018-09-22T20:27:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Right, the deadline wasn’t a deadline to see if she wanted to continue negotiating. Grassley needs to put a stop to this. I know! If he allows negotiations to continue… then nothing bad would happen, other than perhaps a slight delay to the political timeline. How horrible that would be! Certainly a reason to have a very hard line when negotiating with an alleged survivor of attempted rape over how exactly they can bring their story forward. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2559 "2018-09-22T20:38:09Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t understand what the necessary elements for establishing a credible allegation are, based on **UV’s** posts. > > Let’s say a 48 year old man (John) just announces he was routinely molested by Priest Bob in the summer of 1982, while he served as altar boy. He says these incidents happened at his church, but he can’t remember where exactly. He also can’t remember exact dates. However, he vividly remembers Priest Bob undressing him on multiple occasions that summer and fondling his genitals. He can’t remember how many times exactly it happened but at least 3 times. The touching only stopped after he and his family moved out of state for unrelated reasons. The only person he’s ever told about this was his therapist 3 years ago, after he watched the movie Spotlight and started experiencing painful flashbacks. > > Priest Bob (now Cardinal Bob) is in the running to become the next Pope. > > Questions: > > 1. Would it be pointless to investigate this allegation because the facts suggest it would only just be “he said-he said?” > > 2. Would it be pointless to investigate this allegation because it happened decades ago and the statute of limitations has run out? > > 3. Should we not consider this a credible complaint even though available evidence shows Bob was a priest at the church at the time his accuser attended and served as altar boy? If no, what would make it credible? > > 4. Should we discount the allegation because the accuser can’t remember specific dates and times and locations where fondling took place, or how many times? > > 5. Should we discount the allegation because the accuser waited until the papal succession process started to come forward? > > 6. Is there anything about this scenario that makes the way we should evaluate its credibility substantially different than Ford’s allegation? Yes. The fundamental difference here is that you have an actual verifiable link between the accuser and the accused, a place which is known and a time period which can be ascertained with investigation. You can also ask direct question from other people as to things like whether Father Bob would have the oppurtunity of being alone with an alter boy. Church record can be sourced to match the time of a Father Bobs service with that of the alter boys. It’s pretty much nothing like the Ford-Kavanaugh claims. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2560 "2018-09-22T20:42:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I know! If he allows negotiations to continue… then nothing bad would happen, other than perhaps a slight delay to the political timeline. > > How horrible that would be! Certainly a reason to have a very hard line when negotiating with an alleged survivor of attempted rape over how exactly they can bring their story forward. We keep covering the same grounds with this. When you testify in front of a Senate committee, you do not negotiate, you testify. It is arrogant of her and her attorney to think she is a special flower. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=127) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=129)