# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2561 "2018-09-22T20:44:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Investigations are the main way in which evidence is found. Law enforcement often starts an investigation based solely on a single report from an alleged victim. > > Is this really a hard concept? No, it’s not hard at all. A single report should have been made 36 years ago. Nothing. The letter that Feinstein is still sitting on was available to investigate during the hearings. Nothing. Not even the slightest difficulty here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2562 "2018-09-22T20:45:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > We keep covering the same grounds with this. When you testify in front of a Senate committee, you do not negotiate, you testify. It is arrogant of her and her attorney to think she is a special flower. I’m unaware that the Senate doesn’t routinely discuss the right timing and conditions for people who have information the Senate wants to hear. In fact, from what I understand, the Senate routinely reaches out to such folks and says things like “when are you available to testify”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2563 "2018-09-22T20:46:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > We keep covering the same grounds with this. When you testify in front of a Senate committee, you do not negotiate, you testify. It is arrogant of her and her attorney to think she is a special flower. What are you talking about? Is the a rule? Is this how you think it should be? She did negotiate. It’s been in all the papers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2564 "2018-09-22T20:46:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, it’s not hard at all. A single report should have been made 36 years ago. Are you kidding? Ford would have been treated abominably if she had come forward 36 years ago. Such accusations almost always backfired for accusers during that period, which is why victims almost never came forward. Did you really believe that our society treated such accusations reasonably and decently 36 years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2565 "2018-09-22T20:48:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Did you really believe that our society treated such accusations reasonably and decently 36 years ago? Case in point… it appears that attempted rape was a misdemeanor back then in Maryland. Think about that. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2566 "2018-09-22T20:54:31Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yes. The fundamental difference here is that you have an actual verifiable link between the accuser and the accused, Why don’t we have that with Ford? She and Kavanaugh have acknowledged knowing each other. That they attended the same school at the same time is also not in question. > [@](#): > > a place which is known and a time period which can be ascertained with investigation. An investigation could fairly easily establish whether Ford and Kavanaugh attended the same parties and social events during the summer she said the assault occurred, which would be analogous to nailing down that fondling occurred somewhere in the church but not necessarily where specifically in the church. > [@](#): > > You can also ask direct question from other people as to things like whether Father Bob would have the oppurtunity of being alone with an alter boy. You don’t think investigators couldn’t ask Ford or Kanavaugh’s classmates whether they attended parties where both were present and there was opportunity for the assault to occur? There’s no reason to think there would be such witnesses in the priest situation but not Ford’s. > [@](#): > > Church record can be sourced to match the time of a Father Bobs service with that of the alter boys. This was provided as a given in my scenario, since this would be trivially easy to prove. About as trivial as proving Ford socialized with Kavanaugh. > [@](#): > > It’s pretty much nothing like the Ford-Kavanaugh claims. You pretty much didn’t show that at all, but thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2567 "2018-09-22T20:57:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why don’t we have that with Ford? She and Kavanaugh have acknowledged knowing each other. That they attended the same school at the same time is also not in question. Nitpick: they attended nearby schools, but not the same one. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2568 "2018-09-22T20:59:56Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Case in point… it appears that attempted rape was a misdemeanor back then in Maryland. Think about that. there is no evidence of attempted rape. There’s nothing to think about. I’m not sure what part of this is escaping everyone’s grasp of the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2569 "2018-09-22T21:00:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Nitpick: they attended nearby schools, but not the same one. Yes my bad. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2570 "2018-09-22T21:01:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > there is no evidence of attempted rape. There’s nothing to think about. > > I’m not sure what part of this is escaping everyone’s grasp of the obvious. Are you unaware that statements can be evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2571 "2018-09-22T21:09:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Certainly a reason to have a very hard line when negotiating with an alleged survivor of attempted rape over how exactly they can bring their story forward. Survivor? Is it your belief that people frequently, or even sometimes, die as the result of attempted rape? And especially so in this case, when the alleged crime is said to have been perpetrated by a drunken juvenile torn between the attempt itself and wrestling with his buddy on the floor? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2572 "2018-09-22T21:10:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > there is no evidence of attempted rape. There’s nothing to think about. > > I’m not sure what part of this is escaping everyone’s grasp of the obvious. Testimony is a kind of evidence. This has pointed out to you previously in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2573 "2018-09-22T21:11:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Nitpick: they attended nearby schools, but not the same one. Further nitpick: From news reports Kavanaugh has denied knowing Ford. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Are you unaware that statements can be evidence? Speaking of nitpicks. I’m sure we all know this. I think the fair parsing of that statement was that we want evidence in addition to a self serving statement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2574 "2018-09-22T21:11:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Survivor? > > Is it your belief that people frequently, or even sometimes, die as the result of attempted rape? > > And especially so in this case, when the alleged crime is said to have been perpetrated by a drunken juvenile torn between the attempt itself and wrestling with his buddy on the floor? Read all about the usage of “victim” vs “survivor” in the context of rape and sexual assault here: > **[Key Terms and Phrases | RAINN](https://www.rainn.org/articles/key-terms-and-phrases)** > > As a member of the media, you may have questions about which terms to use when discussing sexual violence. In short, some people prefer not to be called “victims”, and “survivor” has emerged as a common alternative that suggests strength rather than weakness. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2575 "2018-09-22T21:12:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Survivor? > > Is it your belief that people frequently, or even sometimes, die as the result of attempted rape? > > And especially so in this case, when the alleged crime is said to have been perpetrated by a drunken juvenile torn between the attempt itself and wrestling with his buddy on the floor? Bingo! This post completes my card! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2576 "2018-09-22T21:13:11Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Speaking of nitpicks. I’m sure we all know this. I think the fair parsing of that statement was that we want evidence in addition to a self serving statement. I certainly do – I want a full investigation. Law enforcement very frequently proceeds with investigations based on a single report or statement. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2577 "2018-09-22T21:14:31Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > An investigation could fairly easily establish whether Ford and Kavanaugh attended the same parties and social events during the summer she said the assault occurred. Tell us what you had for lunch a month ago. Now describe a party you went to 36 years ago when you were in HS. Now present evidence backing up that memory. There is ZERO chance Ford can back up what she’s saying. Weigh that against a large number of female friends of Kavanaugh who vouch for his character. Yet again, Feinstein was responsible for bringing this up in the hearings but DELIBERATELY withheld it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2578 "2018-09-22T21:14:49Z")
Lets deal with it point by point. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why don’t we have that with Ford? She and Kavanaugh have acknowledged knowing each other. That they attended the same school at the same time is also not in question. Did not attend the same school and no the question of whether they knew each other has not been ascertained one way or the other. > [@](#): > > An investigation could fairly easily establish whether Ford and Kavanaugh attended the same parties and social events during the summer she said the assault occurred, which would be analogous to nailing down that fondling occurred somewhere in the church but not necessarily where specifically in the church. Not at all. Attendance in a workplace is recorded as is an assignment to a particular place. Unless you have some really weird rules in the US, teenage parties don’t have ready records. > [@](#): > > You don’t think investigators couldn’t ask Ford or Kanavaugh’s classmates whether they attended parties where both were present and there was opportunity for the assault to occur? There’s no reason to think there would be such witnesses in the priest situation but not Ford’s. Again, they _don’t have_ classmates in common, since they went to different schools and were in different years. > [@](#): > > This was provided as a given in my scenario, since this would be trivially easy to prove. About as trivial as proving Ford socialized with Kavanaugh. Are there written records of who socialised with who, like they are of who was assigned to which Church and when? Take me as an example. I went to Law School in London, in an area known for having lots of law schools nearby, where the students bodies all regularly socialised. I also worked there after graduation. Lets say I am accused of a historical abuse in both places. One by a student of a different Uni at a party, but no recollection which and where, and the other by a junior at work (for the record I was not and did not:eek: ). No witnesses except for claim. The Kavanaugh example is the former. All an investigator would be able to do is acertain that “yes they both went to Uni at the same time and also went to parties”. In the later, the fact of me and the presence of the junior can be easily verified and probably time stamped. They can also investigate other things, like how often I would be alone with the junior, whether anyone saw anything. This is the priests example you gave, > [@](#): > > You pretty much didn’t show that at all, but thanks for playing. You are labouring under some misapprehensions of fact, please reconsider in light of the corrections provided. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2579 "2018-09-22T21:15:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Tell us what you had for lunch a month ago. Now describe a party you went to 36 years ago when you were in HS. Now present evidence backing up that memory. There is ZERO chance Ford can back up what she’s saying. Weigh that against a large number of female friends of Kavanaugh who vouch for his character. > > Yet again, Feinstein was responsible for bringing this up in the hearings but DELIBERATELY withheld it. The relevance of random internet person saying “ZERO chance…”? You guessed it… zero! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2580 "2018-09-22T21:22:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Read all about the usage of “victim” vs “survivor” in the context of rape and sexual assault here: > > [Key Terms and Phrases | RAINN](https://www.rainn.org/articles/key-terms-and-phrases) > > In short, some people prefer not to be called “victims”, and “survivor” has emerged as a common alternative that suggests strength rather than weakness. Sounds reasonable. I withdraw my complaint, with thanks for the even-handed explanation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=130)