# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 138
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2741 "2018-09-23T19:26:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Just imagine how you feel if / when Manchin / Heitkamp / Donnelly / other red-state Dems “exercise independent thought and judgement” and vote with the Republicans. “What about” is not an answer, except that, you know, it really is, namely: Party affiliation is indeed everything. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2742 "2018-09-23T19:31:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In my view, the Judiciary Committee is not an unbiased entity. Given the current state of its leadership, that’s a Duh. That “leadership” also mean that an investigation that risks producing results unfavorable to it must be biased by definition. But the majority of us still don’t fall into that trap. > [@Shodan](#): > > Wonder why Ms. Ford is having so much reluctance to testify before the committee? If you really don’t have even a glimmer of a clue about that yet, you probably never will. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2743 "2018-09-23T19:35:32Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > What the actual fuck? Indeed. > [@Steophan](#): > > What on earth does an attempted rape have to do with virginity? In my opinion, nothing. You’ll have to ask the writers of the article why they chose to make that implication. > [@Steophan](#): > > Either the alleged attack happened, in which case it has no bearing on it, or it didn’t, which also has no effect on it. Agreed. > [@Steophan](#): > > The age at which she lost her virginity is irrelevant to anything, and it’s with good reason that no investiagtion would be allowed to consider it. Also agreed. Now that I’ve essentially agreed with most of your post, perhaps you’ll be able to discern that I was mocking the writers of the article, not Ford. It was they who chose to imply she was no longer virginal by making an issue of the fact that she still wore the “required” white dress on graduation day (some years later, btw) and “told no one” her secret. This entire brouhaha is 100% politically driven. Under no other circumstance would one be forevermore labeled a criminal because of a single drunken act committed at an age when they aren’t considered judgmentally competent to join the military without parental permission, to sign contracts, or even to make certain decisions in regard to sex. And of course the event itself is being exaggerated out of all proportion as well, with what allegedly happened to Ms. Ford being heatedly portrayed both virtually and literally as rape. It’s political theater of the most absurd kind, perpetrated by those with a heated left-wing agenda. It should come as no surprise when those outside the exaggeratedly passionate left-wing bubble decline to climb aboard the crazy train. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2744 "2018-09-23T19:36:07Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As a judge, the gold standard for what his judicial views are, are his judgements from the bench. That is freely available. That is, as already discussed in depth throughout this thread, a highly limited view of how he’d rule and act once actually on the Court, whose rulings are effectively final outside of social cataclysm. Does the system really work all that much differently where you are? > [@](#): > > Maybe you’d do better if you saw the opposing side in this thread as merely having a different view, not being the spawn of Satan. _Moi_? 😉 You might try presenting different views of your own, instead of simple sarcasm. You used to pretty consistently; that’s why I asked what’s happened. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2745 "2018-09-23T19:38:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m glad that you admit that your proposal is to be unfair to Kavanaugh. I have said throughout this thread that the proposals are unfair. I never said any such thing. I said your request that it be fair is laughable. > [@](#): > > The GOP and Grassley should realize that these demands are simply to be unfair and should summarily reject them. If that’s how they want to play it, I’m not going to try to dissuade them, we’ve got elections coming up! ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2746 "2018-09-23T19:38:42Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > There is a desperation that looks like the death throes of a party today. You (Rs) need more justices to make up for the politics that you keep losing at. 2 women on the court, then we need 2 abusers. Much of this court will be appointed by people who lost the popular vote, and won the electoral. Electoral voting is a remnant from slavery. Rs are looking like those flies and bees you see at the end of summer. Lots of flailing and no future. If “death throes” means controlling every branch of government and majority governorships, what does that mean for the Democratic party? “No where to go but up” is not terribly impressive. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2747 "2018-09-23T19:40:16Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Extrapolate Trump’s remarks to anyone who has waited years before reporting sexual assault and rape, and you’ll see that he’s insulting millions of victims. Including victims of pedophilic clergymen. All in the service of politics and self-interest. To add to that: If you voted for him, then [this](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/donald-trump-tape-transcript.html) is something you can accept: > [@](#): > > Donald J. Trump: You know and … > > Unknown: She used to be great. She’s still very beautiful. > > Trump: I moved on her, actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it. > > Unknown: Whoa. > > Trump: I did try and fuck her. She was married. > > Unknown: That’s huge news. > > Trump: No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. > > She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture — > > I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look. > > Billy Bush: Sheesh, your girl’s hot as shit. In the purple. > > Trump: Whoa! Whoa! > > Bush: Yes! The Donald has scored. Whoa, my man! > > [Crosstalk] > > Trump: Look at you, you are a pussy. > > [Crosstalk] > > Trump: All right, you and I will walk out. > > [Silence] > > Trump: Maybe it’s a different one. > > Bush: It better not be the publicist. No, it’s, it’s her, it’s — > > Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. And maybe you’d better just shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2748 "2018-09-23T19:41:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Under no other circumstance would one be forevermore labeled a criminal because of a single drunken act committed at an age when they aren’t considered judgmentally competent to join the military without parental permission, to sign contracts, or even to make certain decisions in regard to sex. Riiiight. Pull the other one, it’s got bells on. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2749 "2018-09-23T19:42:11Z")
In other words, the sky is _still_ blue? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2750 "2018-09-23T19:46:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Now that I’ve essentially agreed with most of your post, perhaps you’ll be able to discern that I was mocking the writers of the article, not Ford. It was they who chose to imply she was no longer virginal by making an issue of the fact that she still wore the “required” white dress on graduation day (some years later, btw) and “told no one” her secret. > > This entire brouhaha is 100% politically driven. Under no other circumstance would one be forevermore labeled a criminal because of a single drunken act committed at an age when they aren’t considered judgmentally competent to join the military without parental permission, to sign contracts, or even to make certain decisions in regard to sex. > > And of course the event itself is being exaggerated out of all proportion as well, with what allegedly happened to Ms. Ford being heatedly portrayed both virtually and literally as rape. > > It’s political theater of the most absurd kind, perpetrated by those with a heated left-wing agenda. It should come as no surprise when those outside the exaggeratedly passionate left-wing bubble decline to climb aboard the crazy train. This is the part I don’t understand. Even if a girl was from a devoutly religious family and decided to stay a virgin until marriage, why would she hesitate to wear a white dress at her wedding because some guy groped her several years prior? It makes no sense. Even if her allegations against Kavanaugh are true, why the embarrassment over wearing white? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2751 "2018-09-23T19:48:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > So in essence, Ford was asking to be raped because she and her friends might’ve committed the cardinal sin of baring their knees, drinking alcohol unsupervised, and socializing with boys in the absence of 1950’s-style chaperones. Gotcha. Of course she wasn’t asking to be raped. But she was certainly knowledgeable enough to know how the boys her group associated with behaved toward the girls when alcohol was involved, and therefore should not have been so shocked and traumatized upon having personally encountered this predictable and apparently commonplace behavior on their part. I said as much myself in the post you quote from. How you get from that to she “was asking to be raped” is anyone’s guess. Mine is that you weren’t reading for comprehension but just skimming for things to be outraged about. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2752 "2018-09-23T19:49:35Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This is the part I don’t understand. Even if a girl was from a devoutly religious family and decided to stay a virgin until marriage, why would she hesitate to wear a white dress at her wedding because some guy groped her several years prior? It makes no sense. What makes even less sense is that SA was referring to _her high school graduation_, not her wedding. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2753 "2018-09-23T19:54:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course she wasn’t asking to be raped. But she was certainly knowledgeable enough to know how the boys her group associated with behaved toward the girls when alcohol was involved, and therefore should not have been so shocked and traumatized upon having personally encountered this predictable and apparently commonplace behavior on their part. I said as much myself in the post you quote from. > > How you get from that to she “was asking to be raped” is anyone’s guess. Mine is that you weren’t reading for comprehension but just skimming for things to be outraged about. She wasn’t asking to be raped, but she shouldn’t have been shocked if it was attempted? I’d strongly suggest you stop digging, because that hole is just getting deeper. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2754 "2018-09-23T19:56:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Would you like me to dig up some examples of liberals insisting that senators tow the party line? If it would make you happy to do so, I would not stop you, but do you think it would change what you just said about you wanting your party to _toe_ the line? Whataboutism is a descending spiral, one that does no one any good. If your only bar is to make sure that you are not as bad as you perceive the worst of your opponents to be, then you have set a very, very, very low bar for yourself. And maybe that is the point, with that low of self expectations, it is hard to disappoint. > [@](#): > > Not at all. I think bipartisan support of Justice Kavanaugh would be a great thing. Likewise, I think bipartisan support of Trump’s immigration reforms would be good. etc. I think that bipartisan support of nominees and legislation is a good thing as well, which is why I would work with the other party to try to make sure that what I am proposing has their support, not propose something that is an anathema to everyone that is not in your party, and demanding that it be supported by the opponents. For instance, Obama nominated someone that was specifically said by the senate republicans to be a good nominee that they could support, because he was looking for bipartisan support. Did that person who was considered to be a good candidate by republican senators received bipartisan support? It is this exact mentality, that your political opposition is an enemy that is to be crushed, rather than a political opponent with whom compromise is an ideal, that is causing you problems in understanding. > [@](#): > > “expect”? No. “Hope” is the word I used. Just like many liberals “hope” that the moderate / red-state Dems will vote with the party against Kavanaugh, particularly if it were to be the difference between him being confirmed or not. I would expect and hope that each and every senator votes in the way that they feel represents their constituents the best. Even the constituents that didn’t vote for them. Hoping that they vote the way that you want them to vote is just hoping that your tribe wins. > [@UltraVires](#): > > Explain this. We have wives, daughters, mothers, aunts, and other female relatives. You think we want them to be raped with impunity or no criminal penalties? Do you have a cite for anyone that has ever advocated legal rape? No, I just don’t think that you realize that by allowing others to be raped with impunity, that you are also allowing your wives, daughters, mothers, aunts and other female relatives to be raped with impunity. You somehow think that because your wives, daughters, mothers, aunts or other female relatives are _your_ wives, daughter, mothers, aunts or other female relatives they won’t be. I can cite this very thread, where several posters have said that if things had gone down exactly as she had said, then the would still support the confirmation. Does advocating legal attempted rape not mean anything to you? Are you really saying that they would change their minds if she hadn’t been able to escape, and he carried through with raping her? You know what? I guarantee you that if you asked enough, that you would find out that your wives, daughters, mothers, aunts and other female relatives have endured far more secual harrasment, abuse, and assualt than you would expect, what with them being proper ladies to whom such things would not happen. For instance if Ford were your wife, daughter, mother, aunt, or other female relative, would you feel differently about her accusations? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2755 "2018-09-23T19:58:09Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Questioning the validity of women’s traumas at the hands of men, such a time-honored activity. I should think that claims of trauma, whether portrayed in an immediate sense by agenda-driven writers working for the _Washington Post_, or merely realized by the alleged victim many years after the fact at a convenient time politically, may quite properly be called into question. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2756 "2018-09-23T20:04:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What makes even less sense is that SA was referring to _her high school graduation_, not her wedding. Apparently you failed to notice that I was quoting the article itself. To wit: > [@](#): > > _ **On graduation day** , she wore the required white dress and carried red roses. She told no one._ Emphasis mine. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2757 "2018-09-23T20:09:46Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The “judge” in this case is the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee which has decided to set certain deadlines for approving or rejecting this nominee. The timeframe is consistent with past nominees. With, ah, certain exceptions, shall we say? > [@](#): > > You could say the same thing about any criminal or civil trial. You meant “job interview”, right? > [@](#): > > The procedure must be upheld to be respected. See first comment. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2758 "2018-09-23T20:13:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > She wasn’t asking to be raped, but she shouldn’t have been shocked if it was attempted? I’d strongly suggest you stop digging, because that hole is just getting deeper. In my opinion she shouldn’t have been shocked that at parties involving liquor, teenage boys, and no adult supervision, the boys would try to see what they could get. According to the article in the _Washington Post_ such behavior was common knowledge among her peer group. I would think a more realistic reaction would have been anger, disgust, exasperation, and even fear. But shock? No. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2759 "2018-09-23T20:16:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I should think that claims of trauma… realized by the alleged victim many years after the fact at a convenient time politically, may quite properly be called into question. When the claims occur six years prior to the nomination? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2760 "2018-09-23T20:22:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This is the best post in this thread. Spot on. I think this is the first time I’ve seen you criticize Republicans for their behavior. Bravo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=137) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=139)