# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 146
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2901 "2018-09-24T02:26:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > What’s not good for the country is a rapist being nominated to the Supreme Court. > > Maybe that should be a bigger concern than some hypothetical future nominations, hmmmmm…? > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Provide evidence that anyone here has said any such thing. > > Let me help you out–they haven’t. > > What they have said, and I repeat not only myself, but dozens of other people, is that credible felony sexual assault claims should be investigated. > > If you have to distort people’s opinions to argue against them, that’s pretty much proof that you don’t have a good argument against what they’re actually saying, hmmmm…? You have made up your mind. What is the need for an investigation? And again, her accusations are not “credible” unless every accusation is credible. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2902 "2018-09-24T02:27:32Z")
LOL, at least Avenatti is a “greaseball lawyer” who _won_. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2903 "2018-09-24T02:28:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What is your proposal? That if someone comes forward and says that John Smith raped me he should just report to prison? Nobody is saying John Smith should be sent straight to prison. We’re saying John Smith maybe doesn’t get to get confirmed to the Supreme Court by this Thursday. > [@](#): > > Because in any society that values fairness, John Smith gets a chance to defend himself. He gets to explore the accuser’s story and ask probing questions on cross examination. Dr. Ford asked for an FBI investigation to hear this all out. Strangely, this request was declined. It sounds like nobody really wants to ask probing questions. > [@](#): > > Avenatti does not have to be a liar. He can represent his lying clients so long as he does not affirmatively know they are lying. Why do you call them his lying clients? Time after time they’ve been proven true, while their detractors like Michael Cohen and Donald Trump have been caught in lie after lie. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2904 "2018-09-24T02:30:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Avenatti does not have to be a liar. He can represent his lying clients so long as he does not affirmatively know they are lying. His last client was telling the truth, remember? Turns out it the President who was lying. Remember that? The President lied. And the porn star told the truth? Remember how Avenatti represented the one person who was telling the truth? So…it seems kinda silly to characterize the one person who’s demonstratively told the truth of being a liar. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2905 "2018-09-24T02:32:37Z")
So to answer my own OP, there was nothing that Democrats could have done to derail this nomination. They didn’t have to do anything. Kavanaugh did it all himself. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2906 "2018-09-24T02:33:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You have made up your mind. What is the need for an investigation? And again, her accusations are not “credible” unless every accusation is credible. First, the “her accusations are not “credible” unless every accusation is credible.” statement is just utterly wrong. Her statements are credible, period. Second, I’m neither a member of a jury (and if I were, I’d evaluate the evidence with an open mind), nor a member of the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2907 "2018-09-24T02:35:18Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You have made up your mind. What is the need for an investigation? And again, her accusations are not “credible” unless every accusation is credible. And yet… It’s your side that is arguing against an investigation. Who has made up their mind already? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2908 "2018-09-24T02:37:45Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You have made up your mind. Seems a little “pot calling the kettle black” for the guy who’s made up his mind to accuse someone else of having made up their mind. You’ve made up your mind that Ford (and the presumably the other victims who are coming forward) is a liar. I mean, that’s fine. It’s wrong, but lots of people are wrong. But don’t go accusing others of having made up their mind, when you’re the most closed-minded person here. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2909 "2018-09-24T02:40:18Z")
Does anyone think he makes it to the Supreme Court at this point? The GOP needs to cut their losses ASAP. But, I hope they won’t. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2910 "2018-09-24T02:40:27Z")
Further, I mentioned this earlier, but it really was not satisfactorily answered. Say I get on the internet and find out that Kavanaugh spoke at a legal function at the Marriott in Baltimore on July 23, 2003 (I am for purposes of discussion making this up). I then hire a ball busting feminist lawyer to put forward my story that I attended the event, and that Kavanaugh asked me to come back to his room to discuss politics and have a few beers. After having a few beers, I allege that Kavanaugh attempted to have homosexual intercourse with me. Is it corroboration of my story that Kavanaugh was indeed at the event? After all, that’s public information that anyone could find (again under the hypo). Now, how does Kavanaugh or the FBI or anyone else prove this to be false. A few areas come to mind: 1. He could have witnesses at the event who do not recall any such thing. We see how far this has gotten him with Ford. Plus I could allege that it happened late at night after those witnesses went to bed. 2. Suppose the Marriott has records from that long ago that shows I didn’t stay there. Well, of course not because I couldn’t afford the Marriott and I stayed at some other hotel in the Baltimore area, or maybe it was outside of town, and I don’t remember the name of the hotel. We see how far this has gotten him with Ford. 3. Suppose the organizers of the event don’t remember me. Why would they? I was some random guy that walked into the event, meaning to register and pay, but nobody was at the desk at the time so I just walked in. We see how far this has gotten him with Ford. 4. You could argue that the entirety of his life has shown that he has not engaged in such behavior, especially homosexuality, but the other side could argue that homosexuality, especially with married and professed Christian men, is often closeted. What makes my (hypothetical) allegation any less credible than Ford’s? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2911 "2018-09-24T02:41:57Z")
I like how **UltraVires** ’s first reaction is to call everyone a liar. The irony of a Trump supporter calling anyone else on the planet a liar is delicious and I think that cognitive dissonance that allows someone to do so could spin a small planet out of orbit. Even ignoring Avenatti is the report from Ronan Farrow and Jane Mayer both of whom have impeccable credentials. They’ll still be smeared by the right wingers as liars though. Just like they did Bob Woodward. It’s literally all they have left: Cry “Fake News” and watch 25% of the country agree. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2912 "2018-09-24T02:42:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What does it matter what order it was released in or by whom? …because there wasn’t a single good reason to release the name of somebody who was **not a direct witness to the event** except to directly impugn the credibility of Ford. Ford never claimed anything other than stating there were “two other teenagers she knew at the party.” Nothing that Keyser has said (through her lawyer) disputes what she said to the Washington Post. The headline in the originally cited article is a lie. “Third Named Witness Rejects Kavanaugh’s Accuser’s Allegations” is a lie. At the of the article “she wasn’t named”. The article revealed her name. She wasn’t a witness to the event. And she didn’t reject Fords allegations. Of course it matters. If you are interested in the truth then it matters. > [@](#): > > The fundamental point you were disagreeing with yesterday was whether Ford alleged Keyser was at the party. That wasn’t the fundamental point I was disagreeing with yesterday. I asked the question when did Ford publicly state that Keyser was “a named witness?” Well she didn’t. We didn’t get confirmation of that until after the committee revealed her name. That was my fundamental point. > [@](#): > > Do you now concede that point? I have nothing to concede. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > So there is nothing inconsistent with Ford’s claim and the statement from Keyser even if Keyser is the alleged witness. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2913 "2018-09-24T02:43:18Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Does anyone think he makes it to the Supreme Court at this point? The GOP needs to cut their losses ASAP. But, I hope they won’t. You and me both, bebe. (Yikes, can I call you ‘bebe’??) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2914 "2018-09-24T02:49:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What makes my (hypothetical) allegation any less credible than Ford’s? Ford is pushing for an FBI investigation, knowing that lying to the FBI is a crime. You are not pushing for an FBI investigation, knowing that lying to the FBI is a crime. Investigations are a tricky business, always prone to being manipulated for political purposes. But I believe the person who could go to jail for bringing an investigation on false evidence. I do not believe you until you have that kind of skin in the game. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2915 "2018-09-24T02:53:14Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > I like how **UltraVires** ’s first reaction is to call everyone a liar. The irony of a Trump supporter calling anyone else on the planet a liar is delicious and I think that cognitive dissonance that allows someone to do so could spin a small planet out of orbit. > > Even ignoring Avenatti is the report from Ronan Farrow and Jane Mayer both of whom have impeccable credentials. They’ll still be smeared by the right wingers as liars though. Just like they did Bob Woodward. It’s literally all they have left: Cry “Fake News” and watch 25% of the country agree. Well, to be fair, your side is calling Kavanaugh, Judge, Smyth, and Meyer all liars. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2916 "2018-09-24T02:57:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, to be fair, your side is calling Kavanaugh, Judge, Smyth, and Meyer all liars. Then let there be an investigation, and let the truth come out. To me, it seems more likely that Kavanaugh and Judge are liars, then Ford, Ramirez, and the multiple people Avenatti is representing. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2917 "2018-09-24T03:00:57Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Ford is pushing for an FBI investigation, knowing that lying to the FBI is a crime. > > You are not pushing for an FBI investigation, knowing that lying to the FBI is a crime. > > Investigations are a tricky business, always prone to being manipulated for political purposes. But I believe the person who could go to jail for bringing an investigation on false evidence. > > I do not believe you until you have that kind of skin in the game. As I said before, there is no way that Ford’s allegations, or my hypothetical ones, could ever be proven false to the point where she or I would be prosecuted. Crystal Magnum was not prosecuted in the Duke Lacrosse case. The most that the FBI would ever find about my false allegation would be that they simply found no corroborating evidence to substantiate my claim. That doesn’t get me charged criminally. So, yeah, bring on the FBI (hypothetically). Especially knowing that the FBI has already said that they will not investigate, why not demand? That is not “skin in the game,” it is a bluff knowing that it will not happen, and such a bluff just happens to be the Democratic talking point. In response to another poster, I have said many, many, many times in this thread that these allegations could very well be true, yet there will never be enough corroborating evidence, especially from 36 years ago, to make a person who is guided by fairness and justice to take action against anyone. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2918 "2018-09-24T03:02:14Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, to be fair, your side is calling Kavanaugh, Judge, Smyth, and Meyer all liars. So you’re up to Ford, Ramirez, Avenatti- no, wait, he’s just a greaseball and his clients are the liars, right? Hey, here’s an idea- maybe the claims should be investigated? That may help separate the wheat from the chaff? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2919 "2018-09-24T03:03:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Especially knowing that the FBI has already said that they will not investigate, why not demand? They said they will investigate if the President orders them to, so I don’t think your claim accurately represents the truth of the matter. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/2920 "2018-09-24T03:03:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, to be fair, your side is calling Kavanaugh, Judge, Smyth, and Meyer all liars. Nope. They were calling for an investigation to make that determination. Your side wanted to rush through without an investigation even after they knew more women were going to come forward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=145) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=147)