# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 153
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3041 "2018-09-24T17:12:00Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > “I never saw him rape anyone, but it would be completely in character for him to do that” isn’t the stunning defense of Kavanaugh’s character that you might think. Good thing he isn’t the only one - > [@](#): > > Still, another male classmate who Ramirez said egged Kavanaugh on during the party has denied any memory of the gathering. In addition, six of Kavanaugh’s classmates – including some who Ramirez said were involved – released a statement doubting the incident happened. > > “We can say with confidence that if the incident Debbie alleges ever occurred, we would have seen or heard about it – and we did not,” they said. “The behavior she describes would be completely out of character for Brett.” So, one guy who didn’t witness it and says might have happened vs. those who were supposedly present who say it didn’t and would not have happened. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3042 "2018-09-24T17:12:01Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Listen, Ford came forward in a reasonable time. I know that it’s been years, but the left’s argument on the reluctance to disclose is correct. I will stick with analyzing Ford’s allegation. You should come up with another rationale to ignore the Ramirez accusation, because her classmates actually contacted the press prior to the Ford accusation going public. Whoops. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3043 "2018-09-24T17:12:40Z")
Seriously, if Merrick Garland had received a fraction of this much rapey attention, I’d be begging Obama to find someone new. But Rapeublicans just double down on what an amazing dude he is. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3044 "2018-09-24T17:14:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Good thing he isn’t the only one - So, one guy who didn’t witness it and says might have happened vs. those who were supposedly present who say it didn’t and would not have happened. So…some people say one thing, and other people say another thing. I wonder if some sort of “investigation” (to coin a word) would be called for to sort this whole thing out. Quick, think of a reason not to investigate! Hurry, before more women come forward!!! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3045 "2018-09-24T17:15:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I read this article earlier and found it unclear as to whether this allegation was separate from Ford’s. The report was filed anonymously, so it could be hers, right? It looks very similar to the Avenatti one. So Ford, Rodriguez, and some unspecified number of women averred by Avenatti. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3046 "2018-09-24T17:23:24Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So…some people say one thing, and other people say another thing. Well, only if the “some” means “one” in the first instance. As in one person says one thing, and the four other people allegedly involved say the opposite, and another person says another thing, and at least some of those she claims witnessed it say the opposite. This isn’t so much “he said-she said” - more like “she said-nobody else said and everyone who is accused of being involved says otherwise”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3047 "2018-09-24T17:26:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It looks very similar to the Avenatti one. So Ford, **Rodriguez** , and some unspecified number of women averred by Avenatti. Are you just picking random Latin names? Seems like if you’re going to have an opinion on the issues you should educate yourself a little first. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3048 "2018-09-24T17:26:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Does anyone else remember some comments earlier in the thread to the effect of, “It’s just one accuser; it can’t possibly be true – because if it were true, such a monster would have done this more than once!” > > My, how the times have changed. Not really. The number of accusations with any supporting evidence is, still, zero. The number of actual allegations is 2. These both may change, and if they do, like any reasonable person, I’ll change my opinion with the facts. But right now, no reasonable person (who was not a victim or attacker) could possibly believe that Kavanaugh is, in fact, a sexual predator. There is a difference between saying “I don’t believe what you are saying is true” and “I believe what you are saying is not true”. The first is the reasonable response to the current allegations. The latter is not, the evidence against them is not yet strong enough. But the idea that Kavanaugh should be treated as anything other than innocent _at this moment in time_ is, to put it bluntly, batshit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3049 "2018-09-24T17:28:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Not really. The number of accusations with any supporting evidence is, still, zero. Wrong! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3050 "2018-09-24T17:29:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, only if the “some” means “one” in the first instance. As in one person says one thing, and the four other people allegedly involved say the opposite, and another person says another thing, and at least some of those she claims witnessed it say the opposite. > > This isn’t so much “he said-she said” - more like “she said-nobody else said and everyone who is accused of being involved says otherwise”. So…you’re calling her a liar? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3051 "2018-09-24T17:29:39Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No, at that point we unanimously decide Kavanaugh has too much baggage and we withdraw his nomination. > > That’s what “we” would do if “we” were sane, ethical, and intelligent. At which point, no-one is ever appointed to a position of power again, as anyone can make an unsupported allegation. Thinking that multiple unsupported allegations mean anything more than a single one is neither sane, ethical nor intelligent. Zero plus zero is still zero, no matter how many time you iterate. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3052 "2018-09-24T17:30:56Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > At which point, no-one is ever appointed to a position of power again, as anyone can make an unsupported allegation. Or…and here’s a crazy thought…when credible accusations arise we investigate them. Did I just blow your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3053 "2018-09-24T17:33:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Wrong! No, it’s entirely correct. Of course, I can’t prove that, as proving a negative is impossible (despite what you and others here expect Kavanaugh to do). But if there were any support for the allegations, it would have been repeatedly posted here. Sadly, we just have you and others saying “Wrong!”, or much longer posts that could be summed up with that word, containing no actual information. Full marks for brevity, though. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3054 "2018-09-24T17:35:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, it’s entirely correct. Of course, I can’t prove that, as proving a negative is impossible (despite what you and others here expect Kavanaugh to do). But if there were any support for the allegations, it would have been repeatedly posted here. Sadly, we just have you and others saying “Wrong!”, or much longer posts that could be summed up with that word, containing no actual information. > > Full marks for brevity, though. The supporting information for Ford’s allegation has been repeatedly posted here. It’s not at all hard to find. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3055 "2018-09-24T17:35:36Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, it’s entirely correct. No, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3056 "2018-09-24T17:37:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The supporting information for Ford’s allegation has been repeatedly posted here. It’s not at all hard to find. This guy claimed to have read all the posts in the thread, but apparently missed the ones about the multiple rape accusations. Then, after asking for and receiving a cite, he \*still \*confused Judge’s confession to his girlfriend with Avenatti’s rape accusations. I guess I’m saying that finding the supporting information might be more difficult for some people than for others. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3057 "2018-09-24T17:38:41Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Or…and here’s a crazy thought…when credible accusations arise we investigate them. > > Did I just blow your mind? Who is “we”, though? It’s certainly not me, and unless you’re a detective in the relevant jurisdiction it’s not you. Which is really the point. These allegations are being reported to the wrong people at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons, with no support, and people are asking for the wrong agency to investigate. The investigation that _has_ been done, by journalists, has unearthed only denials that anyone who was supposedly at these parties actually attended - or at least, that they were so unmemorable that they don’t recall them. I don’t know about you, but had I attended a party where girls were screaming for help, or being gang-raped, I’d sure as hell remember it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3058 "2018-09-24T17:41:50Z")
New [Avenatti Tweet](https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1044233074609811456): > [@](#): > > Warning: My client re Kavanaugh has previously done work within the State Dept, U.S. Mint, & DOJ. She has been granted multiple security clearances in the past including Public Trust & Secret. The GOP and others better be very careful in trying to suggest that she is not credible ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3059 "2018-09-24T17:43:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Who is “we”, though? It’s certainly not me, and unless you’re a detective in the relevant jurisdiction it’s not you. Which is really the point. These allegations are being reported to the wrong people at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons, with no support, and people are asking for the wrong agency to investigate. No, it’s certainly not you, seeing as how you’re not even an American (though are awfully concerned with dismissing sexual assault accusations related to American politics). “We” is the American people. And the FBI is the right agency to investigate (you may have missed the explanation of this despite “reading all the posts in the thread”) > [@](#): > > I don’t know about you, but had I attended a party where girls were screaming for help, or being gang-raped, I’d sure as hell remember it. Kavanaugh put his hand over Ford’s mouth to keep her from calling out (did you miss that when you read all the posts?). In the other rape cases, Kavanaugh drugged the girls (did you also miss that)? And the men invited to the party were presumably Kavanaugh’s frat brothers, who were there for the gang rape, so probably less interested in stopping it than they should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3060 "2018-09-24T17:45:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > This guy claimed to have read all the posts in the thread, but apparently missed the ones about the multiple rape accusations. Then, after asking for and receiving a cite, he \*still \*confused Judge’s confession to his girlfriend with Avenatti’s rape accusations. > > I guess I’m saying that finding the supporting information might be more difficult for some people than for others. Avenetti has made no actual accusation, he’s simply hinted that there might be one (or more) in the future. As yet it is nothing, not even an allegation, but an unsupported allegation _of_ an allegation. As for Ford, there is no evidence the party happened, different stories told to her therapist and in the recent letter, and the one person who claims to have heard rumours about it in the past has recanted that. All the people she claims were at the party deny it, and no-one appears to have heard anything about Kavanaugh doing anything like he is accused of. So, once again, where’s the support? Where are the other allegations? They don’t (currently) exist. It sucks that you’re likely to have a shit judge on the supreme court, but it would be far worse to have a precedent for denying one for such bad reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=152) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=154)