# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 154
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3061 "2018-09-24T17:48:07Z")
I’m wondering if the second accuser might be a put up job. Her exposure as a liar would neatly discredit the first…which would, of course, be the whole idea. As for “proving a negative”, it’s done every day. I can prove I’m not a high school drop-out, a doctor can prove that a woman’s never been pregnant, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3062 "2018-09-24T17:50:04Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > As for Ford, there is no evidence the party happened, different stories told to her therapist and in the recent letter, and the one person who claims to have heard rumours about it in the past has recanted that. Boy, sounds like more information is needed. We should probably do some sort of “investigation”(to coin a new word) to find out the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3063 "2018-09-24T17:51:19Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I’m wondering if the second accuser might be a put up job. Her exposure as a liar would neatly discredit the first…which would, of course, be the whole idea. Except her story was circulating before Ford’s accusation came out. And it wasn’t initially reported by her–it was reported by multiple of her classmates. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3064 "2018-09-24T17:55:36Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > New [Avenatti Tweet](https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1044233074609811456): If a college professor from an upper crust background is treated as if she might as well be a meth addicted pathological lying hysteric, I’m not sure why a career civil servant would be regarded any differently. She will likely be branded a Deep Statetist. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3065 "2018-09-24T17:57:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > At which point, no-one is ever appointed to a position of power again, as anyone can make an unsupported allegation. So **Steophan** ’s position is that if Kavenaugh withdraws, we will never see another judge, cabinet secretary, or other Senate-confirmed official again. Chicken Little, much? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3066 "2018-09-24T17:57:57Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > No, it’s certainly not you, seeing as how you’re not even an American (though are awfully concerned with dismissing sexual assault accusations related to American politics). If you’d care to link to any threads about unsupported allegations of sexual assaults affecting the politics of other countries, I’ll get right on dismissing those as well. > [@](#): > > “We” is the American people. And the FBI is the right agency to investigate (you may have missed the explanation of this despite “reading all the posts in the thread”) The portion of the American people that you tend to politically identify with are usually fairly strongly against the FBI and other agencies overstepping their jurisdiction to investigate people. If the President wants them to conduct another background check on Kavanaugh, that’s fine. It may even be happening for all any of us know (I doubt it, personally). But they shouldn’t be investigating allegations of state crimes. You know that. > [@](#): > > Kavanaugh put his hand over Ford’s mouth to keep her from calling out (did you miss that when you read all the posts?). My interpretation was that he did so after she had started screaming, to stop her from continuing. Yours may be correct, though, doing something to “stop someone screaming” is ambiguous. That doesn’t change that it’s an unsupported claim that they were even at the same party, let alone that he actually did that. > [@](#): > > In the other rape cases, Kavanaugh drugged the girls (did you also miss that)? And the men invited to the party were presumably Kavanaugh’s frat brothers, who were there for the gang rape, so probably less interested in stopping it than they should have been. That is pure idle speculation, there are no such accusations, only claims that people Kavanaugh knew may or may not have been involved in group sex. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3067 "2018-09-24T17:58:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The supporting information for Ford’s allegation has been repeatedly posted here. It’s not at all hard to find. Here: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … Ford wrote: “[The assault occurred in a suburban Maryland area home at a gathering that included me and four others.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/16/politics/blasey-ford-kavanaugh-letter-feinstein/index.html)” > > We now know that those alleged “four others” were > > 1. Brett Kavanaugh > > 2. Mark Judge > > 3. PJ Smyth > > 4. Leland Keyser > > Each of those four has denied Ford’s story: > > 1. “[I categorically and unequivocally deny this allegation. I did not do this back in high school or at any time.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kavanaugh-denies-high-school-assault-allegation/story?id=57801261)” > > 2. “[I do not recall the party described in Dr. Ford’s letter. More to the point, I never saw Brett act in the manner Dr. Ford describes.](https://nypost.com/2018/09/19/kavanaughs-prep-school-pal-fords-wrong-i-was-never-at-party/)” > > 3. “[I have no knowledge of the party in question; nor do I have any knowledge of the allegations of improper conduct she has leveled against Brett Kavanaugh](https://nypost.com/2018/09/19/kavanaughs-prep-school-pal-fords-wrong-i-was-never-at-party/)” > > 4. “[Ms. Keyser does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection of ever being at a party or gathering where he was present](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/22/kavanaugh-ford-woman-party-letter-836913)” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3068 "2018-09-24T18:01:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So **Steophan** ’s position is that if Kavenaugh withdraws, we will never see another judge, cabinet secretary, or other Senate-confirmed official again. > > Chicken Little, much? I would suggest that the Venn diagram between “people who have sexually assaulted someone” and “people who worry about the dire consequences of investigating sexual assault accusations” is pretty much a circle.\* \*Not entirely a circle. Our illustrious posters on this board who hysterically wail about the dire consequences of actually investigating sexual assault are of course not themselves monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3069 "2018-09-24T18:03:54Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So **Steophan** ’s position is that if Kavenaugh withdraws, we will never see another judge, cabinet secretary, or other Senate-confirmed official again. > > Chicken Little, much? If unsupported allegations are all it takes to prevent the opposition from appointing someone, you’d be remiss _not_ to make them, from a purely political point of view. Yes, I was using hyperbole, but on the other hand I’ll see your “chicken little” and raise you “the boy who cried wolf”. It seemed we were getting somewhere with taking accusations of rape seriously, and improving the way they are dealt with. That won’t last when high-profile people start being punished due to unsupported accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3070 "2018-09-24T18:04:03Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > But they shouldn’t be investigating allegations of state crimes. You know that. I know that you haven’t read all the posts in the thread as carefully as you claim to have done. Want to go try it again? I suspect multiple people may have addressed the issue of whether the FBI will investigate state crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3071 "2018-09-24T18:06:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That won’t last when high-profile people start being punished due to unsupported accusations. By “punished” you mean “investigated”. And by “investigated” you mean “undergo a background check which you already agreed to as a requirement for accepting the nomination”. Yes, this will definitely be the end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3072 "2018-09-24T18:08:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The portion of the American people that you tend to politically identify with are usually fairly strongly against the FBI and other agencies overstepping their jurisdiction to investigate people. If the President wants them to conduct another background check on Kavanaugh, that’s fine. It may even be happening for all any of us know (I doubt it, personally). But they shouldn’t be investigating allegations of state crimes. You know that. I think you should come up with a cite for people on the liberal end of the spectrum being on the record as oppposing background checks for political appointments. Because as far as I can tell, this is another example of the portion of the American people that you tend to identify with being usually fairly strongly against reality, when it comes to saying things to get them what they want. And speaking as someone who has been through FBI background checks, not only did I sign forms specifically authorizing them to obtain law enforcement information from any agency they wish, be it the Mayberry PD or the Galactic Highway Patrol; I also authorized them to obtain information about my finances, medical history, and probably a bunch of other stuff I can’t remember. FBI can’t look into the character of a person when it comes to state crimes… who are you trying to kid? Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3073 "2018-09-24T18:09:06Z")
Maya Wiley tweeted: > [@](#): > > A 3rd woman with sexual assualt complaint, filed with Montgomery County police. We don’t know much more. #BrettKavanuagh No one can serve on the #SCOTUS with this hanging over their head. He should be shouting for a reopened #FBI background check. [https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1044243989120131073](https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1044243989120131073) … Avenatti replied: > [@](#): > > FYI - The woman referred to is not my client. So four women. No overlaps. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3074 "2018-09-24T18:10:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If unsupported allegations are all it takes to prevent the opposition from appointing someone, you’d be remiss _not_ to make them, from a purely political point of view. Yes, I was using hyperbole, but on the other hand I’ll see your “chicken little” and raise you “the boy who cried wolf”. It seemed we were getting somewhere with taking accusations of rape seriously, and improving the way they are dealt with. That won’t last when high-profile people start being punished due to unsupported accusations. How many more Senate confirmations of Republican appointees do you expect during the next two years? You acknowledged you were using hyperbole… so, like… three? Four? Six? Or dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens? Personally, I’m going with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3075 "2018-09-24T18:11:14Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Maya Wiley tweeted: > > Avenatti replied: > > So four women. No overlaps. I don’t know if you should be counting to four, at least yet: > [@](#): > > [A report in The Sentinel this AM says “investigators in Montgomery County” are investigating a complaint by a 3rd woman who says Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her > > Washington Examiner then quoted the police chief saying he had no knowledge. > > Deleting tweets until we know more.]([https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1044273649535119363](https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1044273649535119363)) We don’t even know the name of Avenatti’s client, do we? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3076 "2018-09-24T18:12:37Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I would suggest that the Venn diagram between “people who have sexually assaulted someone” and “people who worry about the dire consequences of investigating sexual assault accusations” is pretty much a circle.\* > > \*Not entirely a circle. Our illustrious posters on this board who hysterically wail about the dire consequences of actually investigating sexual assault are of course not themselves monsters. No-one is worried about the consequences of _investigating_ sexual assault accusations. We are worried about the consequences of prejudging the results of such investigations, the consequences of expanding the remit of certain agencies to investigate things outside their jurisdiction, and extremely worried about the morality of treating people as suspicious, if not outright guilty, based on _unsupported_ accusations. This whole “no smoke without fire” attitude has proven to be dangerous many times throughout history. It’s called a witch-hunt with good reason. If you think Kavanaugh’s attitude to women disqualifies him from a supreme court position, point to those of his rulings that demonstrate it. That’s the way this should be being handled. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3077 "2018-09-24T18:13:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We don’t even know the name of Avenatti’s client, do we? Nope. But we will. Time and time again we have seen that Avenatti doesn’t just make claims, he delivers. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3078 "2018-09-24T18:14:23Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No-one is worried about the consequences of _investigating_ sexual assault accusations. Well, that certainly explains why so many people, yourself included, are arguing that the sexual assault accusations shouldn’t be investigated. Thanks for clearing that up. ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3079 "2018-09-24T18:15:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you’d care to link to any threads about unsupported allegations of sexual assaults affecting the politics of other countries, I’ll get right on dismissing those as well. > > The portion of the American people that you tend to politically identify with are usually fairly strongly against the FBI and other agencies overstepping their jurisdiction to investigate people. If the President wants them to conduct another background check on Kavanaugh, that’s fine. It may even be happening for all any of us know (I doubt it, personally). But they shouldn’t be investigating allegations of state crimes. You know that. > > My interpretation was that he did so after she had started screaming, to stop her from continuing. Yours may be correct, though, doing something to “stop someone screaming” is ambiguous. > > That doesn’t change that it’s an unsupported claim that they were even at the same party, let alone that he actually did that. > > That is pure idle speculation, there are no such accusations, only claims that people Kavanaugh knew may or may not have been involved in group sex. Multiple men fucking an unconscious woman is not “group sex”. It’s gang rape. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3080 "2018-09-24T18:16:00Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Nope. But we will. > > Time and time again we have seen that Avenatti doesn’t just make claims, he delivers. So we’re at Ford and Ramirez (both of their stories have significant issues), and waiting to see if Avenatti “delivers” or if there’s something more to the now-deleted tweet. ETA: that sounds like 2 women to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=153) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=155)