# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 168
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3341 "2018-09-25T12:09:07Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > If these allegations are all invented from whole cloth, then why did the accusations only arise to the second nominee? Gorsuch literally went to the same fucking high school as Kavanaugh and not a single allegation like this about him. Probably because, while an illegitimate justice, he wasn’t rapey. I wouldn’t assume there weren’t any unsubstantiated allegations against other Supreme Court nominees. The Dems just weren’t as desperate. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3342 "2018-09-25T12:16:16Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > As an outsider in this, I can’t help wondering why background checks at an early stage wouldn’t have turned up that much, at least (even without the specific allegations of assault), and to flag up that this might need further investigation with him - if only to dig a bit deeper as to whether there was anything that could cause political embarrassment to the President and his supporters, once the confirmation process started? > > I suppose no system of positive vetting would turn up everything that might need to be considered, let alone a specific allegation that hadn’t come to light at that stage, but this does seem like someone, or more than one someone, wasn’t doing their job properly. Or is that stating the bleedin’ obvious? From the start, the White House and Republicans were determined to get this nomination through the confirmation process as quickly as they could. They wanted to at least have some minimum procedural workings of a nomination so that they could comply with their constitutional requirements, but there’s been an unprecedented lack of transparency, with the White House withholding documents and Republican Senators knowing of these allegations but not acknowledging them publicly until days later. In fact their response has been not to slow things down, but to sped things up since discovery. It reveals the operational philosophy of the modern republican leadership: the general public does NOT have a right to know about their public servants. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3343 "2018-09-25T12:33:10Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Hell, I’ve been told by an eyewitness that maybe 15 years ago, when I was in my middle 50s, I rushed into an arena to rescue a woman from being trampled and injured or killed by the horse she’d abused into a murderous rage Huh. Given the underlined part (which I’m presuming you knew at the time), I would have chalked it up to karma and not risked so much as a hangnail on her behalf, but to each his own. Anyhoo, getting back to the thread subject, my guess at this point is that the Republican leadership has figured out that they’re big-red-capital-Superman-“S” screwed either way, pissing off either the deplorables or the normal people, so they might as well try to push this one through. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3344 "2018-09-25T12:38:44Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Let’s just assume that the accusers are all lying. Just based on what he chose to put in his high school yearbook, it is clear that he is a misogynistic pig with questionable values and poor judgment. Sure people regret what they put sometimes, but they don’t use the platform to mock and slut-shame an acquaintance and brag about illegal drinking to excess. I am his age. I went to high school and college at the same time and nobody with any sense put crap like that in their yearbook. Add that to pledging a disgusting, sexist fraternity that celebrates non consensual sex and you get a picture of who he really is. That’s the particularly damning part. Someone who indulges in vicious behavior but has enough shame to keep it under wraps might have enough self-control to prevent his baser impulses from influencing his professional conduct. Someone who sees nothing wrong with such attitudes to the point of casually boasting about and memorializing them is not going to do so – why would he bother? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3345 "2018-09-25T12:41:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Are there any other areas of life where people of 53 are held to be responsible for what they did at 17? Was his perjury on the subject before or after his last birthday (seeing as how is age is so critical to passing judgment on his character and all)? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3346 "2018-09-25T12:41:44Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Let’s just assume that the accusers are all lying. > [@AK84](#): > > Why? They should be examined as any accusations are. I’m not **psychobunny** , but I’m pretty sure that was ‘assume for the sake of argument.’ ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3347 "2018-09-25T12:55:25Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > the wee little problem here is that there is no difference between 1982 and 2018, in many men’s minds. In this man’s mind, there isn’t. At least not on this issue. In 2018, I’d never dream of pulling a girl into a room, locking the door and holding my hand over her mouth to stifle her screams while I tried to rape her. And I wouldn’t call that “just trying to get laid”. And - shocking, I know - I, as well as those I used to party with, thought the same back in 1982. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3348 "2018-09-25T13:08:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Are there any other areas of life where people of 53 are held to be responsible for what they did at 17? Or, assuming they were some sort of miscreant at that age, that they should still be considered to be the same now? > > “Lovely picture of your grandkids there, Dr. Jones, but we’re going to have to let you go. It’s just come to our attention that you sold drugs when you were 17.” > > Or, “I’m sorry, Captain Smith, we’re not only going to have to deny you this promotion but fire you because we just found out you held up a store when you were 17.” > > Or, “I’m sorry, Judge, but we’re going to have to institute disbarment proceedings against you because we just found out you belonged to a gang 37 years ago.” > > Even if Kavanaugh did what he’s accused of, it’s absolutely, totally, batshit nuts to hold him accountable for it now, 37 years later. And even crazier to accuse him of being a “rapist”, as some posters on this board have done, asking “Do we want a rapist sitting on the Supreme Court,” despite the fact that, 1) what is alleged is not rape; and 2) he has by all accounts led an exemplary life his entire adulthood; and 3) in no other area of American life are grown men of 53 held responsible for things they did as juveniles. > > I suppose, given the scenarios listed above, such individuals might find fame, fortune and admiration as rap stars, but then there’s that ‘old white guy’ thing in the way, so I guess they’re fucked. > > Nope, it’s just mess up once and pay for it forever, right, guys? > > (And before you start up with _“But, but…the Supreme Court,”_ I don’t recall any such concerns regarding the presidency when Bill Clinton’s rape of Juanita Broaddrick and multiple “Bimbo eruptions” came to light and heralded his treatment of women. If someone like Bill Clinton can behave the way he did as a grown-ass man and still be supported in his presidency, surely a former stumbling drunk 17-year-old boy can be qualified to sit on the Supreme Court at the age of 53.) > > This entire episode is ridiculous and 100% politically motivated. If it weren’t, middle-aged men would be getting called to account for juvenile misdeeds by the millions. He’s not going to jail for what he did at 17; he’s having to answer for something that he did at 17 and hasn’t had to answer for until now, even though Blasey Ford has had to spend the decades since processing the events of that night. Your position could be more respectable if you’d just come out and accuse her of making it up. You’d still rightly receive scorn and condemnation, but the position would be more sensible. But what you’re arguing is that, assuming Ford was actually assaulted or harassed, then we should feel more sorry for the **perpetrator** of that offense now that he’s being forced to acknowledge it, than for the victim who’s been trying to process it for the past 4 decades. Please explain why you have more sympathy for someone finally answering for his offenses than someone finally having the strength to disclose that she felt victimized by behavior that any reasonable person would find, at minimum, uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3349 "2018-09-25T13:09:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Are there any other areas of life where people of 53 are held to be responsible for what they did at 17? There have been people put to death for what they did at 17. By 17, most of your moral character is pretty well determined. If you’re the type to attempt rape at 17, then you really aren’t the sort of person who should be given one of the highest offices in the nation. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3350 "2018-09-25T13:10:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Are there any other areas of life where people of 53 are held to be responsible for what they did at 17? Or, assuming they were some sort of miscreant at that age, that they should still be considered to be the same now? While I agree that many of us have done shameful and embarrassing things in our youth, that’s not the only thing that is working against Kavanaugh. He is also strongly denying it ever happened. He is saying they are all lies and he would never act like that. He’s painting his teen self as a church-going virgin who would never even dream of acting inappropriately. But if you look at his past, it does seem like stuff he would have done. His own yearbook page is pretty incriminating. And all of us who have been teenagers know the routine debauchery that goes on. Most often it’s not at the level of sexual assault, but there is typically plenty of drinking, smoking, staying out late, getting into trouble, etc. Even if we give him a pass for what he did as a teen, he is clearly misrepresenting himself right now. If instead he was honest about his past, it would be viewed differently. But he’s being deceptive as a 53-year-old, so it is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3351 "2018-09-25T13:12:07Z")
I think the biggest shift between the mores of 1982 and those of 2018 have to do with intoxication. My recollection is that back then, if a woman was drunk but conscious and responding positively to one’s attentions, that was considered OK; few people were making arguments back then about a woman being too drunk to give consent. And while it varied a great deal between different social groupings at the time, certainly there were still a lot of people in 1982 who thought it was OK to get a woman drunk for the purpose of getting past her inhibitions, as they might’ve said back then. But trying to force oneself on a woman who clearly didn’t want to be intimate with you - that was generally disapproved of back then as well as now. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3352 "2018-09-25T13:12:53Z")
I still want to know who thought “I was a virgin throughout high school” is a good defense. Not that there’s anything at all wrong being a virgin, but that it’s somehow a defense against attempted rape. “I was a virgin throughout high school.” “Yeah, that’s because you never made it past attempted rape.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3353 "2018-09-25T13:18:25Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Even if we give him a pass for what he did as a teen, he is clearly misrepresenting himself right now. If instead he was honest about his past, it would be viewed differently. But he’s being deceptive as a 53-year-old, so it is relevant. I think this is significant. I doubt he can be found criminally or civilly liable at this point; we’re just asking him to come clean about his behavior as a youth, and he refuses to do that. He refuses to address that. And he’s been encouraged to do this all along, because the entire process has lacked transparent. Kavanaugh, if confirmed, would be a wholly illegitimate justice, and he should be impeached at the first available opportunity if one ever presents itself. In the meantime, let’s just hope that he gets voted down. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3354 "2018-09-25T13:23:00Z")
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that all the women are lying liars out to destroy a good man’s reputation. Would Kavanaugh like to give a truthful explanation, backed up by bank records and other financial statements, of how he managed to retire $200,000 worth of debt in an extremely short timeline? That kind of unexplained financial behavior alone would probably deny any one of us “normal citizens” a clearance or other things. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3355 "2018-09-25T14:03:34Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I still want to know who thought “I was a virgin throughout high school” is a good defense. Not that there’s anything at all wrong being a virgin, but that it’s somehow a defense against attempted rape. “I was a virgin throughout high school.” “Yeah, that’s because you never made it past attempted rape.” Lots of lazy thinkers also think men rape when sex deprived. Incels promulgate that belief as well. If he struck out trying to get consensual sex, then trying to get the non-consensual kind isn’t too far out there. But I don’t believe his virginity claim. Also not believing that he didn’t get blacked out drunk. He also denied this on Fox too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3356 "2018-09-25T14:08:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Also not believing that he didn’t get blacked out drunk. He also denied this on Fox too. On Thursday, I expect a few Democratic Senators will read excerpts from Mark Judge’s writings about the drunken debauchery of “Bart O’Kavanaugh” and ask if Kavanaugh remembers anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3357 "2018-09-25T14:12:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > On Thursday, I expect … We’re back to doubting whether Thursday’s scheduled hearing will happen again: [Kavanaugh hearing once again in question as Christine Ford raises new concerns | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/25/kavanaugh-hearing-once-again-in-doubt-as-christine-ford-raises-new-concerns.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3358 "2018-09-25T14:17:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > On Thursday, I expect a few Democratic Senators will read excerpts from Mark Judge’s writings about the drunken debauchery of “Bart O’Kavanaugh” and ask if Kavanaugh remembers anything like that. IIRC, “Bart” makes only one appearance in that book with a reference to throwing up in someone’s car and possibly passing out. If there is a reading, it will be exceedingly short. So I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3359 "2018-09-25T14:17:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We’re back to doubting whether Thursday’s scheduled hearing will happen again: [Kavanaugh hearing once again in question as Christine Ford raises new concerns | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/25/kavanaugh-hearing-once-again-in-doubt-as-christine-ford-raises-new-concerns.html) This has already been addressed. No we aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3360 "2018-09-25T14:18:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We’re back to doubting whether Thursday’s scheduled hearing will happen again: [Kavanaugh hearing once again in question as Christine Ford raises new concerns | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/25/kavanaugh-hearing-once-again-in-doubt-as-christine-ford-raises-new-concerns.html) Who is “we”? I didn’t see a quote there suggesting that Ford wouldn’t testify. It merely stated the facts that Republicans were already smearing Ford, and that Republican Senators were too afraid to question Ford themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=167) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=169)