# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 171
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3401 "2018-09-25T17:04:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There is, actually, a lot of evidence that he and his friends were _not_ teetotalers in high school. That’s not really the matter in doubt though. **you with the face** asked me if I believed his “No. That never happened” answer to the question “Was there ever a time you drank so much that you couldn’t remember the night before?” I’ve been around people who were drunk at parties. Some of them drank so much that they would stumble / fall over and I’d have no qualms describing their speech as “incoherent”. I’ve also been with some the next day who did not remember the previous night’s “festivities”. I don’t find it at all implausible that Kavanaugh got drunk, perhaps even quite drunk, but was still able to “remember the night before”. Do you? Fair point, that “incoherent” may not necessarily mean “blackout drunk.” However, let’s also bear in mind that he was asked, and answered, a very specific question; I don’t know if the Fox interviewer asked him if he drank to excess while in high school, or at Yale. “I was never unable to remember the night before,” of course, is very different from “I never got drunk,” and Kavanaugh’s answers during that interview seemed to sometimes be dancing around that point. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3402 "2018-09-25T17:08:55Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Fair point, that “incoherent” may not necessarily mean “blackout drunk.” However, let’s also bear in mind that he was asked, and answered, a very specific question; I don’t know if the Fox interviewer asked him if he drank to excess while in high school, or at Yale. “I was never unable to remember the night before,” of course, is very different from “I never got drunk,” and Kavanaugh’s answers during that interview seemed to sometimes be dancing around that point. I agree. He seemed to me to be engaging in some rather careful lawerly parsing to avoid admitting to underage drinking. My response to **you with the face** was also an answer to a very specific question. On the broader matter of whether Brett Kavanaugh drank in high school or college, I think it’s reasonably clear that he did. I think that reasonable clarity stops somewhat short of being able to accurately describe him as a “blackout drunk”, which several Dopers are wont to do. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3403 "2018-09-25T17:10:29Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Fair point, that “incoherent” may not necessarily mean “blackout drunk.” However, let’s also bear in mind that he was asked, and answered, a very specific question; I don’t know if the Fox interviewer asked him if he drank to excess while in high school, or at Yale. “I was never unable to remember the night before,” of course, is very different from “I never got drunk,” and Kavanaugh’s answers during that interview seemed to sometimes be dancing around that point. He drank to the point of throwing up and passing out. Maybe he didn’t blackout, but he was a heavy drinker. I also notice he said no to “I was never unable to remember the night before”, but he didn’t say that he was never unable to remember \*all \*of the night before. Curious omission. It’s the kind of thing I would say if I were trying to technically tell the truth while concealing that I’d drunk to the point of not recalling everything that happened. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3404 "2018-09-25T17:15:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > … I also notice he said “I was never unable to remember the night before”… I don’t think you noticed any such thing. You should review the video. Kavanaugh’s words were “No. That never happened” and “No. That did not happen.” The “curious omission” that you’re imagining never happened because the phrase you imagine that Brett Kavanaugh said (“I was never unable to remember the night before”) was something posted by **kenobi 65** as a hypothetical / paraphase, not an actual quote said by Kavanaugh. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3405 "2018-09-25T17:15:07Z")
Whoever lives a life where all your important decisions can be made on the basis of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt? Scientists, mathematicians can, they have that luxury. The rest of us do not, we must choose, we must make important decisions based on reason, and doubt is a function of reason. We are given this candidate, and assured that he is the very best that the Republicans have to offer, a sterling character, a profound legal understanding, etc. And if we doubt that, we must prove it _beyond_ doubt, to the standard of a criminal defense. When does this ever happen? When do we get the luxury of certainty? Maybe you do, but I can count on one hand the number of important decisions I have had to make where I was totally sure. Well, OK, Nixon, but that was just one. Reason is doubt, certainty is the absence of reason. Sith happens. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3406 "2018-09-25T17:18:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The omission that you’re imagining never happened because the phrase you imagine that Brett Kavanaugh said (“I was never unable to remember the night before”) was something posted by **kenobi 65** as a hypothetical / paraphase, not an actual quote said by Kavanaugh. Correct, and my apologies if it was misleading (I was, indeed, paraphrasing). The actual verbiage from the Fox News interview (source: [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/us/transcript-of-brett-kavanaughs-interview-with-fox-news.html)): > [@](#): > > MS. MacCALLUM: Sir, you are going to be pressed on something that you just said about people do things in high school, and you were all drinking, were there times when perhaps you drank so much — was there ever a time that you drank so much that you couldn’t remember what happened the night before? > > JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, that never happened. > > MS. MacCALLUM: You never said to anyone, “I don’t remember anything about last night”? > > JUDGE KAVANAUGH: No, that did not happen. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3407 "2018-09-25T17:21:39Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Correct, and my apologies if it was misleading (I was, indeed, paraphrasing). > > The actual verbiage from the Fox News interview (source: [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/us/transcript-of-brett-kavanaughs-interview-with-fox-news.html)): I don’t think you need to apologize. I didn’t have any trouble following what you were saying, and I certainly didn’t think it was misleading. Our pal **Evil Economist** just got a wee bit confused and I was trying to set him straight. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3408 "2018-09-25T17:21:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think you noticed any such thing. You should review the video. Kavanaugh’s words were “No. That never happened” and “No. That did not happen.” The “curious omission” that you’re imagining never happened because the phrase you imagine that Brett Kavanaugh said (“I was never unable to remember the night before”) was something posted by **kenobi 65** as a hypothetical / paraphase, not an actual quote said by Kavanaugh. Probably why I said: > [@](#): > > I also notice _he said no to_ “I was never unable to remember the night before” Notice the italicized bit that you left off my quote for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3409 "2018-09-25T17:24:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t find it at all implausible that Kavanaugh got drunk, perhaps even quite drunk, but was still able to “remember the night before”. Do you? If you’re blackout drunk, you often don’t know what it is you’re not remembering. I’m not what you call a heavy drinker at all, and like a good little girl, waited until age 21 before I touched the stuff. But there have been a few times that I’ve gotten so drunk that if I’m being honest, I can’t rule out being blacked out. If you’re “incoherently drunk” by definition you aren’t capable of thinking straight. So we can we trust an “incoherently drunk” person to accurately surmise whether their memory bank doesn’t contain gaps? Nope. You’d think a lawyer would get this better than most people, and thus, would add some qualifiers to keep themselves in the clear. Don’t just flatly deny any blackouts, when there are people who saw you getting plastered on a weekly basis. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3410 "2018-09-25T17:30:21Z")
Strategically, Kavanaugh can’t leave any doubt. If he opens the door and admits he drank to point of maybe losing his memory on occasion, then it’s possible Ford is telling the truth and Kavanaugh just doesn’t remember. That can’t happen, so he’s doubling down. If it’s only Ford and Kavanaugh, who can dispute what he says. The problem is the truth is messy. I expect Ford’s story to have holes in it, to not remember things. It’s more credible to me. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3411 "2018-09-25T17:30:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Probably why I said: > > Notice the italicized bit that you left off my quote for some reason. I see the post in question was edited. Did your edit include inserting the words “no to”? I certainly didn’t deliberately mangle your quote. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3412 "2018-09-25T17:33:53Z")
You do realise he _has_ used lawyers prattle, he has said that he did not get blackout drunk? Unless there is a dated blood alcohol level test somewhere, it’s unlikely anyone can prove that he did in fact get so drunk and anyone who says otherwise can be countered having misperception. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3413 "2018-09-25T17:36:51Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > It’s becoming more and more evident that the GOP senators are desperately trying to find some way to get rid of this hot potato without offending either their hard-core deplorable base or their traditional Main Street voters. News Flash: you won’t find it because it doesn’t exist. > > At this point, their best shot at damage control is to vote down the nomination and tell the hard-corers “Suck it up, buttercup; you’re gonna come out and vote for me anyway because you don’t want the Democrats to get the Senate”. It probably won’t work, but every other option I can think of _definitely_ won’t work. But if that’s true, then doesn’t a new option become the lesser of two evils? If we grant what you say, then we can expect Kavanaugh to get voted down. But if we grant _that,_ then folks of the smoke-filled-room variety can take Kavanaugh aside and patiently explain that, _look, your nomination is set to be voted down; and then you get nothing, and it’ll be like you’re standing there stamping your foot and whining that you wanted them to vote the other way._ And they pause, and present Option #2: _it’s either that, or you announce that you’re withdrawing for the good of the country. Again, either way, it’s already over; but one way involves experts opining that you maybe would’ve gotten voted in, while you look like you’re calling the shots and you also get this here bribe._ To which the only sensible reply is, uh, Hang On; What’s The Bribe, Exactly? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3414 "2018-09-25T17:38:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > He clearly was the first 18 year old in human history to claim to be more sexually experienced then he was.:rolleyes: Bingo. As a college freshman, he may have lied by saying he’d already lost his virginity. So fucking what? Two things about this one: assuming he lied back then, (1) it was a lie about something inconsequential, and (2) it doesn’t give any window at all into his overall veracity. This is something guys lie about, even guys who are completely honest about everything else. (Yeah, #notallguys, but an awful lot of guys.) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3415 "2018-09-25T17:40:16Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Strategically, Kavanaugh can’t leave any doubt. If he opens the door and admits he drank to point of maybe losing his memory on occasion, then it’s possible Ford is telling the truth and Kavanaugh just doesn’t remember. That can’t happen, so he’s doubling down. If it’s only Ford and Kavanaugh, who can dispute what he says. True, but when you think about it, even if he’d never been blackout drunk, he still could have assaulted her (and Ramirez). The credibility of Ford’s allegation remains the same regardless of his drinking. It’s a red herring much like the virgin thing. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3416 "2018-09-25T17:40:27Z")
[FiveThirtyEight has a good piece on the least-worst options on Kavanaugh at this point](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-gops-least-worst-option-is-if-kavanaugh-withdraws-and-soon/)(in which they readily admit it’s a very fluid situation, so everything could change hour by hour). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3417 "2018-09-25T17:41:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I see the post in question was edited. Did your edit include inserting the words “no to”? I certainly didn’t deliberately mangle your quote. I honestly don’t remember what changes I made, but that would certainly explain it. I don’t think you edited my quote, sorry for the implication. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3418 "2018-09-25T17:51:43Z")
Interesting article on [Mother Jone](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/09/we-all-know-what-happened-why-do-we-pretend-we-dont/)s: I think pretty much everyone—Democrat and Republican alike—does know the truth of what happened. It’s simple: Christine Blasey Ford has no reason to make anything up, and her allegations are basically true. It’s also true that they happened 35 years ago, when Brett Kavanaugh was 17 years old. In a normal universe, Kavanaugh would have acknowledged what happened, apologized sincerely, and attributed it to “sort of a wild youth.” And that would have been the end of it. Lefties probably would have tried to keep the outrage going, but I don’t think public opinion would have followed. I think this is right. If Kavanaugh hadn’t tried to lie his way out of it, this would already be over. Instead he decided to lie, and then double down, and then double down again, which kept everything in the public eye. As always, it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3419 "2018-09-25T17:55:11Z")
Alex Bolton, a staff writer for The Hill, [reports](https://twitter.com/alexanderbolton/status/1044640768772763649), “Sen. Bob Corker says GOP senators were told at lunch to expect to be in DC this weekend to process Kavanaugh nomination quickly.” At this point, it’s clearly not about any issue of great moral principle. It’s about that Monday photo op. When the picture is taken of the Supreme Court Justices when their term opens on the first Monday in October, they want Kavanaugh to be in the picture. They’re willing to throw away their responsibilities to the nation…for a photo op. ETA: Me, I’m hoping he ends up a cartoon in a cartoon graveyard. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3420 "2018-09-25T17:58:54Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Interesting article on [Mother Jone](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/09/we-all-know-what-happened-why-do-we-pretend-we-dont/)s: > > I think pretty much everyone—Democrat and Republican alike—does know the truth of what happened. It’s simple: Christine Blasey Ford has no reason to make anything up, and her allegations are basically true. It’s also true that they happened 35 years ago, when Brett Kavanaugh was 17 years old. In a normal universe, Kavanaugh would have acknowledged what happened, apologized sincerely, and attributed it to “sort of a wild youth.” > > And that would have been the end of it. Lefties probably would have tried to keep the outrage going, but I don’t think public opinion would have followed. > > I think this is right. If Kavanaugh hadn’t tried to lie his way out of it, this would already be over. Instead he decided to lie, and then double down, and then double down again, which kept everything in the public eye. > > As always, it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up. I think this is a good take. Bad teenage behavior – even very, very bad behavior as a teenager – shouldn’t necessarily be disqualifying, IMO. But how one responds to it, even years later, can be disqualifying, if it shows dishonesty and extreme callousness (which Kavanaugh’s behavior has shown if Ford’s allegation is true). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=170) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=172)