# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 174
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3461 "2018-09-25T19:35:15Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Why is it the Republican strategy to push it through without proper vetting? They went a year until Gorsuch was nominated, why is it critical to get this seat filled? Politics. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3462 "2018-09-25T19:35:58Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Why is it the Republican strategy to push it through without proper vetting? They went a year until Gorsuch was nominated, why is it critical to get this seat filled? they are afraid they will lose the Senate majority in Nov. Not likely to happen but there is a chance . ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3463 "2018-09-25T19:37:47Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Fox interview he also said that he remained a virgin for many years after the alleged attempted rape. How does that answer the accusations? Attempted rape doesn’t change your virginity status. Neither does the Deborah Ramirez accusation that he exposed himself to her. > > He parses his answers very carefully. He does parse, but he’s also been a judge and lawyer for a very long time. I don’t know him, so not sure if it’s out of habit or calculated. Honestly though, what will matter to him is how it comes off whether intentional or not. I’ve yet to hear her (that’s not a negative, just reality). It’s pretty important to actually listen to her before I believe her. I feel for her, because so much seems to be riding on her ability to convince strangers via TV. The rest, virginity, etc., is just the PR machine in effect. We haven’t seen them smear Ford yet (nothing specific, have we?), but I expect we will. At the hearing, or after. As a teacher she’s crossed paths with many people. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3464 "2018-09-25T19:38:33Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Why is it the Republican strategy to push it through without proper vetting? They went a year until Gorsuch was nominated, why is it critical to get this seat filled? Gamble v. United States ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3465 "2018-09-25T19:39:26Z")
> [@XT](#): > > See, rock solid certainty. I think they could both be telling the truth I don’t see any way all of his statements could be true and Ford’s statement could be true–I think you’re trying too hard to play both sides. > [@](#): > > But you said it all right there…you ‘believe’. And it’s impossible to shake the faith of the faithful. 'Nuff said. They’re not “beliefs” in the sense you’re using the word, they’re logical deductions. I have applied intelligence, logic, and my experience of people’s behavior to come to a conclusion which I believe is the right one. I spelled out my thought process for you, and you’re insisting instead on this “belief” garbage. Not sure why, but you do you. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3466 "2018-09-25T19:40:13Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Is this second person to do this in this thread or the did the same guy do it twice? > > Not all hispanic name are interchangeable. Yeah, my bad. I’m terrible with names. If I met Kavenaugh in 1982 his name would probably be O’Connor by now. (Who am I kidding, I don’t remember the names of anybody back then). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3467 "2018-09-25T19:41:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > they are afraid they will lose the Senate majority in Nov. Not likely to happen but there is a chance . Even if they lost in November, they have until January to vote in another nominee. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3468 "2018-09-25T19:46:07Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Even if they lost in November, they have until January to vote in another nominee. Part of the point in pushing for a vote is to force red-state Dems to take a tough (although, probably less tough than it looked to be two weeks ago) vote ahead of the midterms. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3469 "2018-09-25T19:46:57Z")
yes but after the election there could be more delays so they don’t want to risk that. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3470 "2018-09-25T19:51:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Part of the point in pushing for a vote is to force red-state Dems to take a tough (although, probably less tough than it looked to be two weeks ago) vote ahead of the midterms. The vote would be tougher if the candidate was better. They should have dumped him already. Now it’s going to be Republicans who are going to have to defend their votes. Now and in 2020. Won’t lie–I’m kinda enjoying that. “Senator X voted for an attempted rapist to sit on the Supreme Court…” Yeah, this shit will blow back. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3471 "2018-09-25T19:51:11Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I don’t see any way all of his statements could be true and Ford’s statement could be true–I think you’re trying too hard to play both sides. Perhaps **XT** should have said that maybe neither one is lying. There is his side of the story and her side of the story and “the truth”. I suspect neither one is telling “the truth” and although I want an investigation to be done, even that is not going to tell us what “the truth” is-- that is, a factual account of what actually happened. The best we can hope for is it can tell us which story is more likely to be closest to the the truth. But even that is a long, long shot. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3472 "2018-09-25T19:52:34Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > If so then he really has nailed his colours to the mast. He has to be confident he will have them when it counts because right now he is all in. He _is_ all in. But IMHO, not the way you think. McConnell is no dummy. Loathsome, but not stupid. He can see the writing on the wall. The longer this goes on, the more the public sees pig and not lipstick. The fastest way to jettison Kavanaugh is to call for a vote. Vote fails; boom. Kavanaugh gone. On to the next nominee. Who will be a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3473 "2018-09-25T19:53:28Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Gamble v. United States It definitely feels like they’re betting against the country. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3474 "2018-09-25T19:54:14Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Replying again to clarify the reasons I believe her all in one post: > > Her story seems completely believable: so believable in fact that many people are arguing that “this sort of thing happens all the time” and so shouldn’t disqualify Kavanaugh. Especially the lack of detail in her memory was noted by experienced sexual abuse prosecutors as being consistent with the experience of sexual abuse victims. Her classmates have come forward in support of her, saying she’s an honest and believable person. > > She’s a married 51-year-old professor with kids, who gained no benefit from going public, and in fact was immediately subject to horrendous death threats (which anyone who is familiar with the ugliness of the right wing in this country would know would happen). > > She knew him. He was known to drink heavily. He’s known to become angry and belligerent after drinking. He’s repeatedly lied about other things. There’s evidence (e.g., from his yearbook) of him treating women horribly. Other women have come forward. There are persistent rumors about his expectations of his female interns. > > Her story contains details (e.g., about his high school buddy) that someone who made up a story wouldn’t know. > > She mentioned the attack to her therapist years before Kavanaugh was nominated. > > Kavanaugh was a member of a frat that thought rape was such a joke that it was suspended for chanting “no means yes and yes means anal” outside a women’s shelter. He was also a member of the “Tit and Clit” club, whose goal was to “get drunk and get laid.” > > Not only do I believe her, I doubt the sincerity of people who claim not to believe her. You don’t see how circumstantial this all is, I’m sure, but look at what you are saying. You believe her because her story is believable (duh!), many people say this happened all the time (which seems to have no bearing on the validity but informs WHY you believe this), her story is consistent, supposedly, with what sex abuse prosecutors say are true stories (first I’ve heard this one…I’ll look back up thread for a cite as I’m sure you’ve provided one already), she is 51 and gains nothing from this story, plus he’s a known drunk and liar (supposedly) who is an angry drunk, etc etc. Of these, the only one that points to any sort of evidence to inform your belief is the one about the sexual prosecutors dissecting her story and saying it’s consistent…and even that one is thin, but it is something. The rest say more about you and your belief than any sort of facts. You claim Kavanaugh didn’t know Ford or didn’t know she was at the party, and thus it’s an either or…one has to be lying. But I actually went to parties when I was 17, and I couldn’t tell you who was at a specific party 37 years ago or whether I was even there or not if my life depended on it…and that’s even if I wasn’t drinking heavily. If you asked me if someone, even someone I knew later on was there or if I knew them I couldn’t tell you for sure. And I seriously doubt most people in this thread could do it either. Something that, to Ford might have been a scary and formative event could, plausibly to Kavanaugh not have left enough impression to even have a memory of it. To a 15 year old girl, out drinking and at a party with a bunch of drunk, potentially scary older kids might have left a HUGE impression on her. And her memories could be cloudy about what happened from the drink, the noise, the confusion, etc, and she could have expanded on those memories over time, blowing them out of proportion. Or she could have a razor sharp memory of exactly what happened, and Kavanaugh was simply too drunk to recall. Or one of them could be lying for myriad reasons. Or, both could be lying or exaggerating. Like I said, I believe she is telling the truth. The thing I find most plausible about her telling the truth is that she asked that none of this circus happen. But I don’t think that means her story is correct, or that if she is telling the truth that means that Kavanaugh has to be lying (or vice versa). I get why you are rock solid in your belief, and appreciate you laying it out. But to me it just underscores all of the things you are assuming about this narrative that informs your belief. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3475 "2018-09-25T19:54:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > The vote would be tougher if the candidate was better. They should have dumped him already. > > Now it’s going to be Republicans who are going to have to defend their votes. Now and in 2020. Won’t lie–I’m kinda enjoying that. “Senator X voted for an attempted rapist to sit on the Supreme Court…” > > Yeah, this shit will blow back. Yeah, I’m sure Dean Heller is thinking maybe it won’t be so bad if there’s an investigation. What’s the rush? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3476 "2018-09-25T19:55:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Perhaps **XT** should have said that maybe neither one is lying. There is his side of the story and her side of the story and “the truth”. I suspect neither one is telling “the truth” and although I want an investigation to be done, even that is not going to tell us what “the truth” is-- that is, a factual account of what actually happened. The best we can hope for is it can tell us which story is more likely to be closest to the the truth. But even that is a long, long shot. But Kavanaugh has made statements under oath that means even a misunderstanding makes him a liar. Maybe the misunderstanding was that he wasn’t trying to rape her, he was just trying to swat a bee out of her hair—except he’s said that he was never at the party. Or maybe he got blackout drunk and doesn’t remember–but he said he’s never been blackout drunk. I don’t see a way that even a “misunderstanding” doesn’t disqualify him. He’s closed every door except the “she’s a liar” one. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3477 "2018-09-25T19:55:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Perhaps **XT** should have said that maybe neither one is lying. There is his side of the story and her side of the story and “the truth”. I suspect neither one is telling “the truth” and although I want an investigation to be done, even that is not going to tell us what “the truth” is-- that is, a factual account of what actually happened. The best we can hope for is it can tell us which story is more likely to be closest to the the truth. But even that is a long, long shot. I thought I had, but as always my posts are often confused and confusing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3478 "2018-09-25T19:57:36Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > … He’s closed every door except the “she’s a liar” one. Or the “she’s mistaken him for someone else” one. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3479 "2018-09-25T19:58:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Or the “she’s mistaken him for someone else” one. Pretty sure everyone’s abandoned that particular defense. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3480 "2018-09-25T19:59:48Z")
> [@XT](#): > > See, rock solid certainty. I think they could both be telling the truth, or what they think is the truth. Or one could be lying. Or both could be lying. To me, there are a lot of plausible variations here. Yeah, maybe we should get the FBI or someone to dig into both women’s stories and find out what they can. And while they’re at it, figure out where Kavanaugh got his money, and where his debt went. > [@](#): > > But you said it all right there…you ‘believe’. And it’s impossible to shake the faith of the faithful. 'Nuff said. At this point, it’s pretty hard not to believe. When one side wants to find the truth, and one side wants to keep it buried and rush to a vote, I’d be predisposed to believe the first side before I had any idea what it was about. Back in the spring of 1973, it was pretty obvious that Nixon was guilty because he was _acting_ guilty. I was 19, but I could look back at my own childhood and say, “this is how I acted when I had something to hide that could get me into trouble.” Same thing here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=173) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=175)