# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 192
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3821 "2018-09-26T18:14:44Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > She saw him waiting in a line of boys who were taking turns raping a girl. What do you suppose he did when he got to the front of the line? Order a bagel? She saw him outside a room. Inside which she claimed that a girl was being raped? She knows that fact how? Did the girl tell her? Did any of the guys (whom) boast about it. Did she witness it? Avenatti needs to up his game BTW. If one of my associates drafted such an unclear witness statement, they would be writing memos on Aussie trademark law for a month. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3822 "2018-09-26T18:16:53Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Yes, we are in agreement. I said that days ago when the “gang rape” talk first started. If any of these allegations are true, I want Kavenaugh to burn. > > Should an investigation bear fruit, I would also like an investigation into how 6 FBI background checks, going all the way up to a supreme court nominee, couldn’t sniff out a known GANG RAPIST. Good question. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3823 "2018-09-26T18:18:54Z")
Avenetti’s not a prosecutor trying to get a conviction. He’s not really acting as a lawyer in this matter, he’s acting as a public relations agent who happens to also be a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3824 "2018-09-26T18:19:51Z")
Someone’s going to regret taking the black out drunk defense off the table. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3825 "2018-09-26T18:20:25Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > She saw him waiting in a line of boys who were taking turns raping a girl. What do you suppose he did when he got to the front of the line? Order a bagel? “No soup for you! Come back… two weeks!” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3826 "2018-09-26T18:20:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Ditka, how many more women do you need to hear from before you throw in the towel? 10? 20? Jesus. Henry. Christ. How many more times do you need to engage with him before YOU throw in the towel? :smack: 1,000? 10,000? 50,000? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3827 "2018-09-26T18:26:24Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > She saw him outside a room No. I will repeat myself. She saw him waiting in a line of boys who were taking turns raping an incapacitated girl. He was not standing innocently outside some random room. HE WAS WAITING IN LINE.\* - To order a bagel. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3828 "2018-09-26T18:27:59Z")
Remember the good old days when the Republicans were trying to force red state Dems to cast a difficult vote before the mid-terms? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3829 "2018-09-26T18:28:05Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Probably because, at this late date, it’s going to be as hard to prove a negative as it is to prove he raped his way through highschool, as many in this thread are leaping too. What do you think an investigation is going to find at this point? Perhaps you’ll have several people claim something happened. But to separate events that don’t seem related, and with a lot of holes and questions (even to ‘what day did this happen?’ and ‘where did this happen?’) And several people who claim nothing happened. You’ll have the prime suspect and accuser(s) making contradictory statements. You’ll have no physical evidence. > > Unless a number of people who witnessed similar things AT THE SAME EVENT come forward and give compelling enough testimony you aren’t going to get Kavanaugh on anything you could prosecute him for. Turn that around though…how would you convince people, especially many in this thread that none of this happened at all? They are convinced at this point that he’s guilty. So, what does he gain if there is an investigation that says, basically, that there isn’t enough information to determine he’s guilty of a crime? Which, frankly, is the best he could hope for. > > Of course, this isn’t about a court of law…it’s about keeping him from the USSC. I figure once that happens (and I think the odds are good it will at this point), I doubt any investigations will go forward, or if they do that the public (or this board) will care that much about them, outside of the really passionate folks like iiiandyiii. Because I suspect that there simply isn’t going to be enough hard evidence for either a conviction or to prove full innocence. Just enough to question his character. Your post just makes me think even more that he would want an investigation to clear his name. I know I would. Whether my innocence could be proven to the standards required for a criminal proceeding I seriously doubt I would just issue a denial and then throw up my hands and walk away saying, “Well, I guess there is nothing that can be done prove this is bullshit.” ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3830 "2018-09-26T18:29:51Z")
I’m really happy that the Republicans are taking this opportunity to position themselves going into the midterms as the party of “She didn’t actually say she _saw_ him rape anybody!”. Any normal President at this point just withdraws the nomination and calls whoever the Federalist Society’ second choice was. But they have a President who believes a real man should never have to withdraw just because some woman tells him to. Protecting a sexual abuser from consequences is a matter of the highest principle to him. So he won’t back down, even if it means both the nomination and his party’s Senate majority go up in flames over it. Good times. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3831 "2018-09-26T18:31:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > No. I will repeat myself. She saw him waiting in a line of boys who were taking turns raping an incapacitated girl. Back in the 80’s this was called trying to… You know what? Maybe it’s a little too soon for this joke. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3832 "2018-09-26T18:32:41Z")
Yes. Like Donald Trumps Presidential Campaign crashed when the Access Hollywood tape came out… wait! Don’t count your election victories before they are won. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3833 "2018-09-26T18:38:14Z")
maybe their new slogan is "he just likes to watch rapes , not take part " ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3834 "2018-09-26T18:42:32Z")
Senator filing an injunction to prevent the vote from occurring Friday. Is that possible? > **[Merkley seeks injunction to stop Kavanaugh vote](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/26/merkley-injunction-stop-kavanaugh-vote-843080)** > > "The President and Mitch McConnell want to ram through this nomination come hell or high water," Merkley says. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3835 "2018-09-26T18:43:13Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > No. I will repeat myself. She saw him waiting in a line of boys who were taking turns raping an incapacitated girl. > > He was not standing innocently outside some random room. HE WAS WAITING IN LINE.\* > > - To order a bagel. You are making the common laypersons mistake of ascribing to statements what they do not say and mixing up fact with inferences. What you say is an inference. Its very expressly not stated as a fact. Read the statement again, [particularly para 12](https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor). She says she saw boys outside a room. That they were waiting for a girl inside the room, waiting for their “turn”. It does _not_ state how she knew there was any sexual activity going on and why she knew it was non-consensual, and crucially she does not say she saw Kavanaugh or Judge actually rape (or have any penetrative sexual contact) at all. Its an inference that can be drawn, but don’tmix that up with fact. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3836 "2018-09-26T18:45:22Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I’m really happy that the Republicans are taking this opportunity to position themselves going into the midterms as the party of “She didn’t actually say she _saw_ him rape anybody!”. > > Any normal President at this point just withdraws the nomination and calls whoever the Federalist Society’ second choice was. But they have a President who believes a real man should never have to withdraw just because some woman tells him to. Protecting a sexual abuser from consequences is a matter of the highest principle to him. So he won’t back down, even if it means both the nomination and his party’s Senate majority go up in flames over it. Good times. 😃 Well, at this point, I think two things need to be considered. 1. How long would it take to perform an FBI investigation that would “clear his name”? It took three days to “clear” Clarence Thomas, and I would note it didn’t actually “clear” him, as Biden’s “FBI investigations do not reach conclusions” talk proves. I do not think an FBI investigation is going to take 3 days at this point. Not even close 1. How long would it take to find an acceptable female SCOTUS nominee that would likely pass a Senate vote, and get her through the confirmation process? If Kavenaugh is innocent and this is, in fact, a coordinated smear campaign, then nominating another old white guy would be idiotic. If 2 would take less time, I say go with that. That would also, hopefully, provide a somewhat of a catharsis for democratic revenge fantasies regarding Merrick Garland. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3837 "2018-09-26T18:46:15Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > No. I will repeat myself. She saw him waiting in a line of boys who were taking turns raping an incapacitated girl. > > He was not standing innocently outside some random room. HE WAS WAITING IN LINE.\* > > - To order a bagel. A lot of us are junior lawyers working on our degree from Internet U, so take this with a grain of salt. From what I’ve learned about evidence in my Saturday night “Dateline 301” class, this bit of evidence would not be sufficient on it’s own. Even if there was video of him waiting outside the room, going in, and coming out 2.5 minutes later, you could not say for certainty what happened in that room. A DA likely would not go forward with a case if that’s all they had. However, the investigators would continue to gather additional evidence that would help their case. Even if all their evidence was circumstantial, they can eventually gather enough circumstantial evidence to make their case and get a conviction. It will be harder to do, but often that’s all they have. What we’re seeing in K’s case is that each piece of evidence is flimsy and circumstantial on its own. There is no video or forensic evidence. It depends on the 30 year old foggy memories of teens, some of whom were drinking. Each piece can be torn apart. But combined together it’s making a pretty solid case against him. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3838 "2018-09-26T18:46:29Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Senator filing an injunction to prevent the vote from occurring Friday. Is that possible? > > [https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/26/merkley-injunction-stop-kavanaugh-vote-843080](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/26/merkley-injunction-stop-kavanaugh-vote-843080) No. Classic non-justiciable question. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3839 "2018-09-26T18:47:57Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > No. I will repeat myself. She saw him waiting in a line of boys who were taking turns raping an incapacitated girl. > > He was not standing innocently outside some random room. HE WAS WAITING IN LINE.\* Can you quote where she said she saw that? The reports I’ve seen aren’t clear if she was a witness or heard it from others. Also, since you seem to insist that there was a line, can you quote how she knew that the girl was being raped and that the guys outside were “waiting in line”? I mean, were they seen going in, one after another, to rape the girl? It seems like this is sill rather vague to be making such clear-cut claims. I’m just trying to understand what the facts are now, as we know them. I assume this will get clearer as time goes on. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3840 "2018-09-26T18:49:30Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > No. Classic non-justiciable question. That’s what I figured. Or rather, classic grandstanding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=191) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=193)