# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 195
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3881 "2018-09-26T19:45:30Z")
NM…just saw Thing Fish’s reply. I guess my own high school experiences are so far out, or I was in such an out crowd that I might as well have been going to HS on a different planet. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3882 "2018-09-26T19:46:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So Ms. Swetnick attended multiple parties where gang rape was organized? As in, after she learned what was going on, she continued to attend? That’s surprising. I would have thought it was less surprising for a conservative. Aren’t conservatives all adherents to the Just World fallacy: She thought if she did the right thing (don’t drink the “punch”) she could avoid the fate of those other girls, who clearly deserved what they were getting? Why can’t conservatives be consistent in their opinions? If you believe in the just world fallacy in one case, believe in it in all cases. Have some character. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3883 "2018-09-26T19:46:33Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Frankly, I think the second and third allegations won’t even make a civil standard of proof and would be dismissed with summary judgement. So: do you think that the standard of evidence required to reach a finding of fault in a civil trial should be the same standard used to judge someone’s fitness for a lifetime appointment to a position of extraordinary public trust? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3884 "2018-09-26T19:47:09Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So…him and his friend were invited to college drunken rape parties while they were in high school? And that seems…reasonable to you? I’m genuinely curious, as to me this little tidbit is kind of setting off multiple alarm bells (that were already ringing in my own bullshit detector even before this). You think formal invites went out, like to a wedding? Maybe you’re overthinking things. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3885 "2018-09-26T19:48:21Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > …I thought he is supposed to have led a gang rape train; that sure sounds like organizing to me, For someone who insists on facts, you sure seem to be making claims not in the victim’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3886 "2018-09-26T19:48:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > NM…just saw Thing Fish’s reply. I guess my own high school experiences are so far out, or I was in such an out crowd that I might as well have been going to HS on a different planet. Yeah, I attended a lot of college parties when I was in high school, though as far as I know nobody ever got raped there. These aren’t the kind of parties you get “invited” to, you just show up and pay your five bucks. If you know where the party is, you must be cool enough. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3887 "2018-09-26T19:50:25Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You think formal invites went out, like to a wedding? Maybe you’re overthinking things. In my own experience high school kids weren’t usually invited or given an option to attend drunken college parties. Nor did college women, in my own experience, notice high school boys enough to recognize them, let alone recall them standing in a rape line 37 years later. But, as I said, this is obviously beyond my own high school experience. Which didn’t include things like formal invites, btw. Not sure where you went to high school, but mine certainly didn’t so stuff like that either. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3888 "2018-09-26T19:53:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It wouldn’t be unheard of, especially since she went to University of Maryland. I don’t think that is any kind of mark against her accusations. And it could be the other way around-- HS student attending parties thrown by college students. 3 years ahead of him, so when she was a College junior, he would have been a senior. Not exactly two cohorts who socialize a lot. And a High School boy is attending college parties (ok fine reasonable) where he is taking the lead in organizing gang rape “trains”. Multiple times. And no one, including college students who were much older than him and under whom he had no power never reported this ever, to the police or even did a _man these High Schoolers are rather rapey, lets not invite them_? I mean its possible… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3889 "2018-09-26T19:54:48Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > where he is taking the lead in organizing gang rape “trains” Provide the cite where the victim claims he “led” or “organized” the rapes (or stop claiming it). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3890 "2018-09-26T19:55:06Z")
Ford released her polygraph [Christine Blasey Ford Polygraph Regarding Kavanaugh Assault Allegation Released | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford_us_5babcac1e4b0353bd2d0489b) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3891 "2018-09-26T19:58:20Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Parties organised by school kids when she was in college herself… and she is 3 years ahead of Kavanaugh and Judge. That is not exactly my point. I would think that a woman would not want to go to parties where gang rape was on the entertainment whether the other guests were three years older or three years younger. According to her affidavit, it was at least ten parties over two years. A dark place, where drunken lechers display the darkest sides of their bestial natures and demean and attack women. And it took her two years to decide that it was a place where she shouldn’t be. Hmmm. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3892 "2018-09-26T19:58:51Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Nor did college women, in my own experience, notice high school boys enough to recognize them, let alone recall them standing in a rape line 37 years later. It’s possible Kavanaugh and Judge did something to stand out. Like get belligerently drunk and start groping and grinding on women. Do that enough times and people will start to recognize you. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3893 "2018-09-26T20:00:37Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > It’s possible Kavanaugh and Judge did something to stand out. Like get belligerently drunk and start groping and grinding on women. Do that enough times and people will start to recognize you. Probably why I wasn’t noticed a lot by college girls when I was in high school. Plus the whole not speaking very good english thingy. I was doomed. On the bright side, I could get through the USSC process without any accusations or rape, so there is that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3894 "2018-09-26T20:01:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That is not exactly my point. I would think that a woman would not want to go to parties where gang rape was on the entertainment whether the other guests were three years older or three years younger. > > According to her affidavit, it was at least ten parties over two years. > > A dark place, where drunken lechers display the darkest sides of their bestial natures and demean and attack women. And it took her two years to decide that it was a place where she shouldn’t be. > > Hmmm. > > Regards, > Shodan Rape culture is powerful and insidious and can even alter the decisions for the worse of intelligent boys and girls. If you had to go to these parties to be cool, then the kids who really want to be cool are going to go to these parties, even if they might be dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3895 "2018-09-26T20:01:43Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Ford released her polygraph > > [Christine Blasey Ford Polygraph Regarding Kavanaugh Assault Allegation Released | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford_us_5babcac1e4b0353bd2d0489b) Aren’t polygraph tests basically psudoscience at this point? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3896 "2018-09-26T20:03:12Z")
> [@XT](#): > > NM…just saw Thing Fish’s reply. I guess my own high school experiences are so far out, or I was in such an out crowd that I might as well have been going to HS on a different planet. You and me both. I was in high school at the same time and would be shocked to find out my classmates were attending parties like this one with gang bangs happening. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen but jeez, I would expect word of something like this would get around pretty fast. So far the only thing I’ve seen corroborating anything like this happening is the statement from Judge’s ex-girlfriend. If these parties were going on finding others who knew about them shouldn’t be too difficult. Getting them to admit publicly they were in attendance on the other hand is likely to be tricky. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3897 "2018-09-26T20:03:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > … > A dark place, where drunken lechers display the darkest sides of their bestial natures and demean and attack women. And it took her two years to decide that it was a place where she shouldn’t be. > > Hmmm. > > Regards, > Shodan So because she used bad judgement as a teenager rape lines were okay? Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3898 "2018-09-26T20:06:12Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Ford released her polygraph > > [Christine Blasey Ford Polygraph Regarding Kavanaugh Assault Allegation Released | HuffPost Latest News](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford_us_5babcac1e4b0353bd2d0489b) It adds details to the story I did not know about (forget whether they are truthful or not): Party was attended by “four boys and a couple of girls”. Ford met Kavanaugh before at parties and briefly dated a friend of Kavanaugh prior to this incident. Re: polygraphs in general. They determine whether Ford believes the statements are true or not. This polygraph indicates she does. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3899 "2018-09-26T20:07:23Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > YSo far the only thing I’ve seen corroborating anything like this happening is the statement from Judge’s ex-girlfriend. That statement from Judge’s ex-girlfriend (basically that he stood in line to have sex with a drunk girl) is so on-the-nose that it’s actually a little worrying. I hope Swetnick can provide evidence that she told people about this prior to the statement coming out, or that other witnesses come forward. On the other hand, if the ex-girlfriend’s statement and Swetnick’s statement are independent, then that’s a hugely damning piece of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/3900 "2018-09-26T20:09:37Z")
This may be why they’re so desperate to ram through this confirmation as quickly as possible: [Orrin Hatch, the Supreme Court, and Trump's Pardons - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/571285) > [@](#): > > The Utah lawmaker Orrin Hatch, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee, filed a 44-page amicus brief earlier this month in Gamble v. United States, a case that will consider whether the dual-sovereignty doctrine should be put to rest. The 150-year-old exception to the Fifth Amendment’s double-jeopardy clause allows state and federal courts to prosecute the same person for the same criminal offense. According to the brief he filed on September 11, Hatch believes the doctrine should be overturned. > … > Within the context of the Mueller probe, legal observers have seen the dual-sovereignty doctrine as a check on President Donald Trump’s power: It could discourage him from trying to shut down the Mueller investigation or pardon anyone caught up in the probe, because the pardon wouldn’t be applied to state charges. Under settled law, if Trump were to pardon his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, for example—he was convicted last month in federal court on eight counts of tax and bank fraud—both New York and Virginia state prosecutors could still charge him for any crimes that violated their respective laws. (Both states have a double-jeopardy law that bars secondary state prosecutions for committing “the same act,” Of the dual-sovereignty doctrine is endes states couldn’t retry the same crime at the state level so states couldn’t retry persons pardined at the federal level. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=194) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=196)