# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 251
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5001 "2018-09-28T20:45:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/408995-george-w-bush-reportedly-called-undecided-senators-to-sway-them](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/408995-george-w-bush-reportedly-called-undecided-senators-to-sway-them) Thanks! Appreciate the link. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5002 "2018-09-28T20:45:56Z")
For me, this is no longer even about the alleged assault. It’s about Judge Kavanaugh and his bad temperament. He’s also a liar. His performance at the hearing was absolutely disgusting. What awful behavior from a grown ass “educated” man. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5003 "2018-09-28T20:48:00Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > They have played it very well thus far. They managed to stop yesterday’s proceedings from becoming into Anita Hill Mk2. And also got some good potshots in at the Democrats. They got it out of commitee, with a favourable recommendation. How much do you want to bet that they always intended to have an FBI investigation? Every Democrat asked for one. They said it would only take a few days. > > Grassley and his committee staffers _have_ been investigating and they do have access to support from other Federal LEA. What’s the betting that they looked and found nothing. Well, I don’t think this whole cluster fuck has been well played, but I concede that MMV. I agree that they probably have a good idea as to what the FBI would or could find, especially if just given a week, and I agree that the effect of this, assuming they find nothing will hurt the Dems position. The Dems have painted themselves into a corner with the FBI investigation and a few days thing, but they were almost certainly banking on Trump being to stubborn and stupid to actually do it. I’m not sure they were wrong about that, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5004 "2018-09-28T20:48:22Z")
To be clear, the FBI is only going to investigate the Ford assault. Not drinking (if not related), nor anything else Kavanaugh may have lied about in his yearbook, etc. I don’t think it will investigate the other accusers. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5005 "2018-09-28T20:48:46Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > George W. Bush was apparently calling the Republican members of the Judiciary Committee asking them to vote for Kavanaugh. Even more evidence that Bush isn’t the sharpest hammer in the tool-drawer. 🙂 Surely he should have known he needed only to call Flake, no? ETA: Ah, he was calling other senators as well… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5006 "2018-09-28T20:50:39Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > To be clear, the FBI is only going to investigate the Ford assault. Not drinking (if not related), nor anything else Kavanaugh may have lied about in his yearbook, etc. I don’t think it will investigate the other accusers. Is it a sure thing? I have to admit, I’ve been out of touch today as I don’t generally read a lot of news on my phone. Is the FBI going to investigate the alleged assault for sure? As to the drinking or whatever, why do you think the FBI would or should do that? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5007 "2018-09-28T20:52:39Z")
> [@XT](#): > > They probably have had it spelled out to them that it’s unlikely that the FBI would be able to actually definitively come to any sort of conclusion…which works in Kavanaugh’s favor. Unless someone is out there just waiting to give some testimony we haven’t heard yet, or one of Kav’s friends who was there is willing to corroborate Ford’s story, there just isn’t enough here to demonstrate anything conclusive. And since the Dem’s have been saying that an FBI investigation is what they want (with the presumption that whatever they find will be meaningful), it’s smart to basically give it to them and hang them on their own hook. > > I’m a bit surprised Trump et al are smart enough to take the advice though… I get that, I don’t think you can definitively prove attempted rape after 36 years. However, even if they can “clear” him in a week, anonymous accusations are already making national news, and I can already see a shift towards disqualifying him for being partisan and being a drunkard, none of which are going to _improve_ over the next week. And I am highly incredulous that the democrats are going to display any sort of satisfaction in a week even if he’s “cleared” of a 36 year old attempted rape (nearly impossible unless they have dirt that Ford’s a proven habitual pathological liar). Any other crumb is that comes out is going to merit investigation too. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5008 "2018-09-28T20:57:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > OMG JEFF FLAKE: > > [https://twitter.com/LisaDNews/status/1045732766686617600](https://twitter.com/LisaDNews/status/1045732766686617600) Flake should change his name to cupcake. I have no respect for this pathetic wussy of a man. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5009 "2018-09-28T20:57:46Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah…your memory is always in motion. And your brain wants to make a memory, especially one that’s traumatic, into a whole narrative. So, every time you bring it back up your brain is stitching things together, adding stuff to fill in the blanks and remixing it all together, then you ‘remember’ that. Rinse and repeat. > > I used to think memories, especially traumatic ones were like a video tape until this same thing happened to me. I was witness to a pretty traumatic event. Me and a bunch of other people. I was asked to testify to the event, and I gave my testimony, confident that my memory was 100% accurate. I testified to that fact too. I was wrong. And I found out that just about everyone else who was a witness was wrong as well. We weren’t punished or anything, as I’m pretty sure the authorities knew we weren’t lying (I certainly wasn’t). It shocked me enough that I did some research on the subject and on again off again I’ve followed it (I’m no expert, just a subject that interests me). To this day, my clear memory of the event tells me that what I saw was how it happened. But it wasn’t. Not even close. And I wasn’t drinking (which was unusual for me at that time), not high on anything, and the events were only a few months old at the time I was asked to testify. But my memories of those events only had a passing resemblance to what actually happened. And so were most of the other witnesses. Honestly memory, in this case, plays very little role. If you believe that Ford 1. Is telling the truth 2. Has, and had at the time, a reasonable definition of sexual assault 3. Came to the conclusion she was sexually assaulted at the time of the event. 4. Saw her attacker clearly Then you really can’t make claims about the potential effect of memory. Details may change, but the fact that “Kavanaugh sexually assaulted me” is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5010 "2018-09-28T20:58:36Z")
**Ashtura** I think they have has a one step at a time policy since this became complicated. They obviously needed a hearing to get it out of committee. They next step is the floor vote. They refused and refused an FBI investigation, and conceded it 30 minutes after it left committee. Presuming, the FBI finds nothing, they can probably force it through the full Senate and it’s game set match. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5011 "2018-09-28T20:59:06Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Is it a sure thing? I have to admit, I’ve been out of touch today as I don’t generally read a lot of news on my phone. Is the FBI going to investigate the alleged assault for sure? > > As to the drinking or whatever, why do you think the FBI would or should do that? 😕 GOP told White House to investigate “credible allegations.” The White House just said they would investigate. I don’t more than that. re: drinking. If people tell the FBI Kavanaugh was known to drink to excess and pass out/etc. during the relevant time period, I think that’s relevant to the incident that Ford is alleging. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5012 "2018-09-28T21:00:09Z")
I think the Republicans are all in on Kavanaugh. Just think: they’ll have two bitter conservatives legislating on the bench out of spite. ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5013 "2018-09-28T21:01:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are there any incidents of similar mistaken/deceptive accusations you can point at as precedent–especially from someone who, in middle age, has no record of making similar mistaken/deceptive accusations? A personal anecdote, FWIW. In high school, my friends and I were goofing around between classes after the bell had rung and a Vice Principal collared us. He must have been having a bad day, because he ranted and cursed at us a lot. I was on the school newspaper, so (immediately after the fact) I thought, “hey, I can write an expose about this guy and how out-of-control he is with students!” Unfortunately, when I first wrote the draft, I used the name of Vice Principal B instead of Vice Principal A. Both male, similar build, but different races for goodness sake. I knew them both pretty well. I don’t know how I made the initial substitution, but somewhere in writing and editing I came to picture VP B in the incident. 35 years later, I can picture the location, the lockers, etc. pretty well in my head - but with VP B incorrectly as the antagonist. When the draft was sent to the head Principal, he asked VP B, who of course denied, and I got in a lot of trouble because I literally couldn’t remember to defend myself that it wasn’t VP B. I also was a lousy journalist who didn’t check my sources, the way I figured out afterwards is that after my article was nixed, my friends all said “dude, it was VP A” (It took some convincing but I reluctantly accepted that 4 other friends were probably right). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5014 "2018-09-28T21:02:02Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I get that, I don’t think you can definitively prove attempted rape after 36 years. > > However, even if they can “clear” him in a week, anonymous accusations are already making national news, and I can already see a shift towards disqualifying him for being partisan and being a drunkard, none of which are going to _improve_ over the next week. > > And I am highly incredulous that the democrats are going to display any sort of satisfaction in a week even if he’s “cleared” of a 36 year old attempted rape (nearly impossible unless they have dirt that Ford’s a proven habitual pathological liar). Any other crumb is that comes out is going to merit investigation too. Oh, I don’t think the Dems will ‘display any sort of satisfaction’ with the investigation, but it will appear that the Pubs are at least trying to appease them, so they will be in a difficult spot if they wish to push forward the attempted rape angle. Of course, they can still say that they aren’t voting for him because of his drinking or his partisanship…those are totally valid reasons, especially from their perspective. But they won’t be able to claim that this was rail roaded through without a pause, so they will be in a weaker position, while the Pubs will be in as strong a position as they can be in this cluster fuck with this candidate. My guess is that as with Thomas the whiff of bad odor will cling to Kav for his entire tenure, but as with Thomas it will fade to the background over time, just brought up from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5015 "2018-09-28T21:10:31Z")
Left Hand of Dorkness: > [@](#): > > Are there any incidents of similar mistaken/deceptive accusations you can point at as precedent–especially from someone who, in middle age, has no record of making similar mistaken/deceptive accusations? In middle age? Not off-hand. In general, I suppose there’s Tawana Brawley, though it’s hard to say what actually came from her mouth and what Al Sharpton may have falsely claimed she said. But it’s hardly unheard of for witnesses or victims of a crime to finger a specific person and for that person to get exonerated later. Given some spare time, I could probably come up with a few specific examples, and specifically where the mistaken/deceptive witness was of middle age, but I’m sure that you’ve heard of such things yourself as well. [Here’s one](https://www.innocenceproject.org/cases/ronald-cotton/), the witness is probably not what you’d call “middle age”, but not so young you’d consider her inherently unreliable. [Here’s another](https://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/WhatWouldYouDo/story?id=4521253), it doesn’t say the age of the witness/victim, but describes her as a young mother of three, how young could she possibly be? Mid-20s, at least, I imagine. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5016 "2018-09-28T21:12:15Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > One thing I read recently was that each time you recall a memory and return it to storage, you are liable to be “modifying/corrupting” that memory, depending on countless factors related to your recollection. So in that way, memory can be like a recording or photocopy that degrades with time and repeated playing. I could certainly see that happening with peripheral details, but not the memory of a specific person hurting you. If your entire childhood was fairly unremarkable except that one time Uncle Fred molested you in the basement when you were 10, I can imagine that over time your memory might be hazy or incorrect about a number of details, like your age at the time, events leading up to the incident, what time of day it occurred, the whereabouts of others in the household, etc. But I can’t see you getting Uncle Fred wrong, particularly if this incident is something you’re regularly replaying in your head. I think people are conflating the way regular memories work with traumatic memories. Apples and oranges. If you asked me to recall my high school graduation, I will be able to recall some things with precision, but for the most part everything is vague. Details are vague not just because it’s a long time ago but because I’ve had no reason to constantly reflect back on that day over the course of my life. How I spent my afternoon four Saturdays ago is almost as vague as the night of my graduation, so time is not the only factor that matters when it comes to memory recall. As a counterpoint, ask me what my family was eating for dinner the night my sister **monstro** almost choked to death, and I can recall that with crystal clear clarity despite it happening more than 30 years ago. It was rotisserie chicken that my dad picked up from Winn Dixie. I remember this because every time grocery store-prepared rotisserie chicken comes up in conversation (and in my line of work, it’s not a rare occurrence), I flashback to the night my sister was choking on the stuff. When the incident occurred, my mind made a permanent association between choking and rotisserie chicken, and this association is what enables me to retrieve the memory behind it. It’s not a “planted” association because it has been there from the beginning. For Ford to falsely remember Kanavaugh as her attacker, one would have to assume she completely stopped thinking about the incident shortly after it happened, and then out of the blue, many years later, she started piecing together details from memories that had long been archived. But from her testimony, I get the sense this memory has been a burden on her mind since the beginning. It was never archived and allowed to collect dust like most of our long term memories do. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5017 "2018-09-28T21:14:01Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think the Republicans are all in on Kavanaugh. Just think: they’ll have two bitter conservatives legislating on the bench out of spite. I don’t know how embittered Thomas is, but if Kavanaugh gets confirmed there will definitely be five right-wing ideologues, one of whom will have all the calm impartial demeanor that we saw on display at yesterday’s hearing. Honestly, Kavanaugh seemed unstable and scary as all hell. I would have thought yesterday’s performance alone would have disqualified him. Surely I’m not the only one who caught solid vibes of crazy emanating from the man like waves from a radio tower. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5018 "2018-09-28T21:15:52Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > To be clear, the FBI is only going to investigate the Ford assault. Not drinking (if not related), nor anything else Kavanaugh may have lied about in his yearbook, etc. I don’t think it will investigate the other accusers. I think you could be mistaken here. It’s open to “current, credible accusations.” This article seems to imply the other two are open for investigation - [Under pressure, Trump orders FBI to investigate Kavanaugh amid sex misconduct allegations](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-judiciary-committee-postpones-kavanaugh-decision-friday-afternoon-n914676) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5019 "2018-09-28T21:21:30Z")
> [@squidfood](#): > > A personal anecdote, FWIW. In high school, my friends and I were goofing around between classes after the bell had rung and a Vice Principal collared us. He must have been having a bad day, because he ranted and cursed at us a lot. I was on the school newspaper, so (immediately after the fact) I thought, “hey, I can write an expose about this guy and how out-of-control he is with students!” > > Unfortunately, when I first wrote the draft, I used the name of Vice Principal B instead of Vice Principal A. Both male, similar build, but different races for goodness sake … Seems like an odd mistake to make, but it was a relatively casual incident in the large scheme of things. I’m no expert, but ISTM that if one experiences something extremely traumatic at the close-range hands of a specific individual, the identity of that individual would be the last thing you would ever forget. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5020 "2018-09-28T21:23:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Seems like an odd mistake to make, but it was a relatively casual incident in the large scheme of things. I’m no expert, but ISTM that if one experiences something extremely traumatic at the close-range hands of a specific individual, the identity of that individual would be the last thing you would ever forget. “ISTM” isn’t much of a factual basis for asserting something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=250) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=252)