# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 261
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5201 "2018-09-29T19:29:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How is his drinking relevant? I’m not sure if you’re serious with this question. Do you really not understand why his excessive drinking might be a problem? Have you tried thinking really hard about it? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5202 "2018-09-29T19:32:08Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If that is relevant, the Ford’s drinking habits are relevant. Perhaps she was intoxicated and unsure about what happened. The fact that she’d been drinking that night was repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly brought up. And you didn’t make a peep when when it was brought up, brave guy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5203 "2018-09-29T19:36:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > As has been stated over and over and over and fucking over again, the FBI cannot prove his innocence. Short of testimony from God, there can be no way to prove that he wasn’t at some house on some day between 1981 and 1984. This is a red herring and it always has been. If Ford’s therapist comes forward, and admits that she falsified her records because Soros paid her to do so, that would be very strong proof of Ford lying. If anyone at all comes forward and talks about how Ford colluded with them to get her story straight, that would be evidence that she is lying. Staffers for democratic senators may come forward, as they may have witnessed this collusion and conspiracy. For instance, earlier in the thread, you were talking about what would happen if you made a false allegation. Well, in the investigation, they would look into your social media, see your posts on making false allegations, and that would be pretty strong evidence against your telling of the truth. Same thing, if she were lying, then there is likely some sort of trail somewhere that would indicate such. That would be the reason why the person who believes that they are telling the truth would want an investigation. The person who is not telling the truth doesn’t want their story looked into too deeply. These are things that could come out in the investigation. If Ford is lying, I think that the investigation would uncover that quite handily. > [@](#): > > How did he lie? How is his drinking relevant? If a person is an alcoholic, are they a rapist then by definition? If that is relevant, the Ford’s drinking habits are relevant. Perhaps she was intoxicated and unsure about what happened. His drinking is relevant because he claims that he doesn’t remember ever having done the things he is accused of. If it can be shown that he got blackout drunk frequently at the time, then he may be entirely honest that he doesn’t remember it, but she is entirely honest that he did it. > [@](#): > > She cannot even remember how she got home even though she admitted that her home was not in walking distance and would have had to walk back inside the house she just escaped from or gone to a stranger’s house to make a phone call. > > As I have said before, I don’t know what happened, neither do you, and nothing at this late date can be found to substantiate it. Oh, but we can find people to accuse Kavanaugh of being a drunk or being a dick to women in his yearbook, so let’s keep investigating. Anything to keep him off the Court! What does Ford gain here? That’s what it really comes down to. Sure, this works out well for the democrats, so the “democrat collective” has a reason to lie, but she is not the “democrat collective”, she is an individual who, up until a few weeks ago, lived a fairly quiet and unremarkable life. You said earlier about you falsely accusing a nominee of some kind. Would you really do that? What do you have to gain from this? Keep in mind, that you are not just getting fame, you are getting death threats, not just to you, but to your family. If your accusation is false, then you have to be highly concerned that at some point, the investigation pulls on one of your loose threads, and the whole lie comes tumbling down, subjecting you to pretty severe criminal penalties at this point. What do _you_ get out of this false accusation that makes you think that it would be so commonplace? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5204 "2018-09-29T19:37:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where did you get this last sentence from? Did it come from some FBI’s “Rules for Investigating”? From Flake? Or from your imagination? > > I understand that the FBI may WANT to. Your side would probably LIKE them to. But you didn’t say “want” or “like”. You said “need”. What, in your view, compels this “need”? You don’t think the FBI should investigate a participant in a crime when they’re investigating that crime? If I ever commit a crime, I’d want you to investigate it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5205 "2018-09-29T19:38:41Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’m not sure if you’re serious with this question. Right? It’s just such a weird argument style where people have to constantly wonder if you’re serious. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5206 "2018-09-29T19:39:14Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’m not sure if you’re serious with this question. Do you really not understand why his excessive drinking might be a problem? Have you tried thinking really hard about it? His drinking in the 1980s? No. The hearing was about sexual assault. It doesn’t matter if he was a teetotaler or drank whiskey for breakfast: it has no bearing on whether he committed this assault against Dr. Ford. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5207 "2018-09-29T19:40:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > His drinking in the 1980s? No. The hearing was about sexual assault. It doesn’t matter if he was a teetotaler or drank whiskey for breakfast: it has no bearing on whether he committed this assault against Dr. Ford. A sexual assault he committed while stumbling drunk (allegedly). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5208 "2018-09-29T19:40:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How did he lie? That’s been gone over many times. But you said specifically you don’t care if he lied about drinking or yearbooks or demeaning women, so I’m certainly not going to go to effort showing you lies under oath that you say you don’t care about. > [@](#): > > How is his drinking relevant? If a person is an alcoholic, are they a rapist then by definition? If that is relevant, the Ford’s drinking habits are relevant. Perhaps she was intoxicated and unsure about what happened. Because his intoxication is a big part of Ford’s story. And who said Ford’s drinking habits aren’t relevant? She’s talked about her own drinking extensively. You’ve already said you don’t care if he lied, so there’s not much point to further discussion on that with you. You might be comfortable with a SCOTUS justice with poor enough character to lie under oath, but many of us think that SCOTUS justices should have a strong enough character that they would never lie under oath. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5209 "2018-09-29T19:40:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What does Ford gain here? That’s what it really comes down to. Sure, this works out well for the democrats, so the “democrat collective” has a reason to lie… But the “Democratic collective” doesn’t have reason to lie. We’re getting one extreme right-wing justice or another, nothing we can do about it. The only reason the “Democratic collective” is opposing this guy is because of his behavior. His actual behavior. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5210 "2018-09-29T19:44:59Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > A sexual assault he committed while stumbling drunk (allegedly). He admitted that several times he had “too many” beers. Assume he was drunk every night in high school. How does it make the allegation more or less likely? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5211 "2018-09-29T19:45:06Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > His drinking in the 1980s? No. The hearing was about sexual assault. It doesn’t matter if he was a teetotaler or drank whiskey for breakfast: it has no bearing on whether he committed this assault against Dr. Ford. If he’s lying about recent occurrences of getting black-out drunk, then he’s probably lying about occurrences of getting black-out drunk in high school. Also, you probably don’t want a alcoholic sitting on the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5212 "2018-09-29T19:46:58Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > He admitted that several times he had “too many” beers. Assume he was drunk every night in high school. How does it make the allegation more or less likely? Well, if he got black out drunk in high school, then his protestations that he didn’t assault Ford go away, because he wouldn’t remember doing it. Are you sure you’re a lawyer? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5213 "2018-09-29T19:48:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > He admitted that several times he had “too many” beers. Assume he was drunk every night in high school. How does it make the allegation more or less likely? It corroborates a detail of her story. Have you taken the time to familiarize yourself with what that word means? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5214 "2018-09-29T19:54:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Well, if he got black out drunk in high school, then his protestations that he didn’t assault Ford go away, because he wouldn’t remember doing it. > > Are you sure you’re a lawyer? I’m sick of these personal attacks, but that is par for the course for your side. In any event, just because a person might have blacked out, that does not mean that he attempted to rape someone. No court would allow such testimony (and I know this isn’t a court) because there is no link between the two. I admitted that I blacked out at times in college. That doesn’t mean I committed murder, rape, or mayhem. It is not competent evidence of anything; it is merely character assassination. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5215 "2018-09-29T20:00:08Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It corroborates a detail of her story. Have you taken the time to familiarize yourself with what that word means? More snarky personal attacks. You need to understand what corroboration means because you have continually shown that you do not. When it was well known that Kavanaugh was a drinker, saying that he was drunk when he did action X is not corroboration. In fact, it is the opposite because it is a believable negative character trait that a false accuser (if Ford is a false accuser) can use to add legitimacy to her story. Let’s say I make up something that Robert Downey, Jr. did to me in 1998. If I say that I saw him using cocaine at the time, is that corroboration to my story? Of course not. Everyone knows of Downey, Jr.'s battles with cocaine. If I accuse Jimmy Buffett of something and say that he was drinking a margarita and wearing flip flops, is that corroboration? It is not. Before you continue with your Pit threads and your shitty snark, you should do more to understand what these words mean. ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5216 "2018-09-29T20:01:00Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m sick of these personal attacks, but that is par for the course for your side. > > In any event, just because a person might have blacked out, that does not mean that he attempted to rape someone. No court would allow such testimony (and I know this isn’t a court) because there is no link between the two. > > I admitted that I blacked out at times in college. \*\*That doesn’t mean I committed murder, rape, or mayhem. \*\* It is not competent evidence of anything; it is merely character assassination. It doesn’t mean you DIDN’T either. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5217 "2018-09-29T20:01:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > In any event, just because a person might have blacked out, that does not mean that he attempted to rape someone. No court would allow such testimony (and I know this isn’t a court) because there is no link between the two. > > I admitted that I blacked out at times in college. That doesn’t mean I committed murder, rape, or mayhem. It is not competent evidence of anything; it is merely character assassination. You’re right, and that’s exactly one of the reasons we believe you when you say you didn’t commit those crimes. You’re not up here saying “I was a church-going virgin who read the bible every night” even though people who knew you are saying “He drank, like we all did. He got blackout drunk at times, like some of us did.” Not only is Kavanaugh saying he never got blackout drunk or passed out (only fell asleep lol!), he’s trying to create a goody-two-shoes caricature of himself. “It couldn’t of happened on weekdays, because I was working out and then studying the bible. The weekend was the only time I drank beer (but just in moderation lol!). And it couldn’t have happened on the weekend, because I didn’t write it on my calendar. And why are you saying I drink too many beers. Do you drink beers? How many beers do YOU drink!” We believe you because you are describing your HS self in a reasonable way that is consistent with common sense and what other people say about you. I don’t believe Kavanaugh because his description of his HS self is unreasonable just on face value. And it’s inconsistent with what other people say about him at that time. I’m more likely to believe Kavanaugh is guilty because it seems like he’s lying about these basic facts. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5218 "2018-09-29T20:02:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m sick of these personal attacks They’re not personal attacks, buddy. They’re serious questions. You don’t seem to think that Kavanaugh’s lying reduces his credibility. It shocks me that a lawyer would think that. > [@](#): > > In any event, just because a person might have blacked out, that does not mean that he attempted to rape someone. What if they are giving testimony and then lie about blacking out. Should we believe they’ve suddenly stopped lying when they then claim they didn’t attempt to rape someone? Haven’t they already proven they’re a liar? Don’t they have more reason to lie about rape than about their drinking habits? And if they repeatedly got black-out drunk, then they don’t know what they did, do they? > [@](#): > > I admitted that I blacked out at times in college. That doesn’t mean I committed murder, rape, or mayhem. It is not competent evidence of anything; it is merely character assassination. What if you were credibly accused of attempting to commit a crime when you were black-out drunk? Would you even know if you did it? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5219 "2018-09-29T20:03:33Z")
If it doesn’t matter, why is he telling obvious lies about it? Furthermore, his obvious lies are in no way limited to his high school drinking habits. He has told obvious lies about stolen emails, his involvement in the torture program, and more. He has lied a lot in this process. What is the largest number of obvious lies someone can tell in a job interview and still be considered for the position in your view **UltraVires**? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5220 "2018-09-29T20:04:39Z")
His harping on liking beer beer beer, without mentioning harder stuff, was also a tell. It’s like he’s playing to the idea that drinking beer is just harmless good ole American fun; it doesn’t count as really binge drinking if all you’re talking about is beer. Because everyone likes beer, right? Does anyone really think his intake was limited to beer, though? High school kids who aspire to party as hard as Animal House ain’t just drinking brewskis, particularly those with a reputation for getting sloppy drunk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=260) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=262)