# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 263
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5241 "2018-09-29T20:49:52Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Ok. But in this analogy, it was Kavanaugh who opened that door. > > He made that claim to Fox News because otherwise he could not as credibly deny Ford’s account. > > That made it totally fair game for the Senate Democrats, even if Kav was entitled to the level of protection we give a criminal defendant. Well, in the criminal context, there is also the prohibition against using extrinsic evidence to prove a collateral matter. I think a judge would allow the state maybe one witness to testify that Kavanaugh had said that he had blacked out previously. But, again, this is not a criminal trial, so there are no rules of evidence, but we don’t have those Rules of Evidence just to be stubborn and to prevent truth seeking. We have them largely (except for privileges) to better get to the truth. We don’t allow hearsay, for example, because it is largely unreliable. We could write a law review article on it, but these rules are there to get to the truth. This question of whether Kavanaugh blacked out does not help us get to the truth of whether he assaulted Dr. Ford. As most of the responses in this thread show, people acknowledge that, but want to find out if he lied under oath about blacking out, something which I pointed out is such a vague term that can never be proven false. I have complained from the beginning that this is a fishing expedition. If Ford doesn’t stick, let’s keep “investigating” until something does. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5242 "2018-09-29T20:50:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > To be fair, it doesn’t have to. > > If what Ford says is entirely true, then I could still see Brett as a respectable character in politics, if he , at the time of the events, admitted his actions and took responsibility. Even if it were some years later, when he is graduating from college, and looks back and realizes the evil he has done, he can repent of it then, even. > > For instance, I have a certain respect for Derek Black, even though what he has in his past is beyond reprehensible. But he has admitted to that, and tried to make amends, and I can see no reason to hold his past views against him now that he has truly repented and attempted to atone. (You can only attempt to atone for sins, you can never succeed.) > > It is that Kavanaugh has never admitted or repented from these actions that speaks to his character. This is the heart of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5243 "2018-09-29T20:55:14Z")
Cocaine is the Devil’s way of telling you that you’ve got too much money, and also, not nearly enough. The dice game is probably backgammon, the elite snob version of Yahtzee. A gambling game, wherein the mathtard is the natural prey of the hustler. Drinking is a vice, gambling is a vice, doing them at the same time is the express train to Fucked City. Such a configuration of stupid might well explain otherwise inexplicable financial gaps. Just sayin’, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5244 "2018-09-29T20:56:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This question of whether Kavanaugh blacked out does not help us get to the truth of whether he assaulted Dr. Ford. As most of the responses in this thread show, people acknowledge that, but want to find out if he lied under oath about blacking out, something which I pointed out is such a vague term that can never be proven false. > > I have complained from the beginning that this is a fishing expedition. If Ford doesn’t stick, let’s keep “investigating” until something does. If it is irrelevant, why did Kavanaugh raise it? The answer, of course, is that it is highly relevant to whether and how you can reconcile their memories (or lack thereof). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5245 "2018-09-29T20:57:29Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > We do know this. > > Multiple sources, including Kavanuagh himself, have confirmed a history of heavy binge drinking. Incidents spanning at least a decade: high school, undergrad, law school, and beyond. > > People with this history of binge drinking experience black outs. Often. All of them. This has been cited. > > On top of that we have at least three pieces of evidence where Kavanaugh’s own words reference black outs. Let’s make sure we are talking about the same thing. What do you consider a black out? In my mind, it is a complete blank for a period of time. Sort of like waking up in the morning in my bed with the last memory being across town at a friend’s house the night before. Something that profound. I do not consider it to be a black out if some details are fuzzy, or oh God, yes, I remember now telling that girl I wanted to bang her. Damn why did I say that. To me, a blackout is that you have no memory and when reminded, you still have no memory. Do we agree on that definition? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5246 "2018-09-29T21:00:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > …I have complained from the beginning that this is a fishing expedition… Yes, that is so. To the extent that stubborn insistence is a virtue, yours is an admirable argument. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5247 "2018-09-29T21:03:44Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I have complained from the beginning that this is a fishing expedition. If Ford doesn’t stick, let’s keep “investigating” until something does. Remember when Republicans claimed Sonia Sotomayor was unfit to be on the Court because once called herself a “wise Latino woman”? _That’s_ a fishing expedition. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5248 "2018-09-29T21:06:12Z")
Looks like the WH will tell the FBI who they can and cannot interview. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5249 "2018-09-29T21:06:23Z")
He disqualified himself by stating the leftwing conspiracy by the Clintons against him. And, he was obviously _on_ something during the hearing. He lies. We have potus who lies, a scotus justice needs to be _sober_ and truthful, without scandal. If he cannot be those things, he should go home. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5250 "2018-09-29T21:10:50Z")
It will be really amusing if Trump fucks this up by not letting the FBI interview obvious witnesses, causing Murkowski and Flake to jump ship. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5251 "2018-09-29T21:12:39Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Looks like the WH will tell the FBI who they can and cannot interview. Oy. **FBI Reaches Out To Deborah Ramirez In Background Probe Of Kavanaugh Allegations** > [@](#): > > The FBI has contacted Deborah Ramirez in the course of its background investigation into allegations of sexual assault and other misconduct against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh, the _Washington Post_ first reported Saturday… (From _Talking Points Memo_, without which, no citizen can hope to be well-informed) [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/fbi-reaches-out-to-deborah-ramirez-of-allegations-of-misconduct-against-kavanaugh](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/fbi-reaches-out-to-deborah-ramirez-of-allegations-of-misconduct-against-kavanaugh) Further than this, despondent sayeth not. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5252 "2018-09-29T21:13:16Z")
Sorry dbl post. I am surprised Trump likes Kav, you know Trump doesn’t like drinking. He has said as such, many times. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5253 "2018-09-29T21:14:13Z")
From Josh Marshall on Twitter: > [@Josh Marshall](#): > > The most generous reading of Kavanaugh’s repeated deceptions is that under normal circumstances he tells the truth but feels entitled to lie when he believes he is being treated unfairly or when a lot is on the line. In other words, a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5254 "2018-09-29T21:14:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **FBI Reaches Out To Deborah Ramirez In Background Probe Of Kavanaugh Allegations** > (From _Talking Points Memo_, without which, no citizen can hope to be well-informed) > [FBI Reaches Out To Deborah Ramirez In Background Probe Of Kavanaugh Allegations - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/fbi-reaches-out-to-deborah-ramirez-of-allegations-of-misconduct-against-kavanaugh) > > Further than this, despondent sayeth not. > **[Limits to Kavanaugh investigation have not changed, despite Trump's comments](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna915061?__twitter_impression=true)** > > Trump’s Saturday night tweet has not changed the limits imposed by the White House counsel’s office on the FBI's Kavanaugh investigation, sources say. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5255 "2018-09-29T21:14:59Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It will be really amusing if Trump fucks this up by not letting the FBI interview obvious witnesses, causing Murkowski and Flake to jump ship. He will be giving rallies in the next several days, deploying our favorite weapon, the Mouth That Roared. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5256 "2018-09-29T21:15:06Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Let’s make sure we are talking about the same thing. What do you consider a black out? > > In my mind, it is a complete blank for a period of time. Sort of like waking up in the morning in my bed with the last memory being across town at a friend’s house the night before. Something that profound. > > I do not consider it to be a black out if some details are fuzzy, or oh God, yes, I remember now telling that girl I wanted to bang her. Damn why did I say that. > > To me, a blackout is that you have no memory and when reminded, you still have no memory. Do we agree on that definition? Here’s a [cite](https://www.self.com/story/5-myths-we-need-to-stop-believing-about-alcohol-blackouts) from earlier in the thread that relies heavily on Aaron White, Ph.D., senior scientific advisor to the NIAAA director and one of the country’s leading experts on blackouts. > [@](#): > > During a blackout, an entire section of the brain (the hippocampus, which is responsible for long-term memories) experiences a neurophysiological, chemical disruption and completely shuts down. “Alcohol reduces the amount of information that makes it to the hippocampus and shuts down neurons in the hippocampus that make memories,” Aaron White, Ph.D., senior scientific advisor to the NIAAA director and one of the country’s leading experts on blackouts, tells SELF. “This creates a temporary void in the record-keeping system.” Memories lost in a blackout will never come back, because the information wasn’t stored in the first place. > > Blackouts come in two types, Dr. White says, depending on how severely the hippocampus is impaired. The most common and less severe fragmentary blackout, commonly referred to as a “brownout," gives you fuzzy memories with details missing. You might remember downing a line of shots, but not ordering them at the bar, or arriving home, but not the taxi journey. > > The more serious, complete blackouts (called “en bloc” blackouts) are when the memory is totally disabled. Welcome to my world. I’m not over-dramatizing when I say I’m lucky to be alive. When you wake up safe in your own bed with no recollection of the last 8, 9, 10 hours of your life—that’s scary. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5257 "2018-09-29T21:16:28Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > He disqualified himself by stating the leftwing conspiracy by the Clintons against him. And, he was obviously _on_ something during the hearing. He lies. We have potus who lies, a scotus justice needs to be _sober_ and truthful, without scandal. If he cannot be those things, he should go home. IMO. Tell him that there is a nice 6 pack of beer, Beer, BEER! waiting for him at home. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Sorry dbl post. > I am surprised Trump likes Kav, you know Trump doesn’t like drinking. He has said as such, many times. He does like people who say that Trump can’t get into trouble. > [@Blalron](#): > > From Josh Marshall on Twitter: It’s not really lying if the truth makes you look bad. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5258 "2018-09-29T21:25:14Z")
Kavanaugh is probably feeling blindsided by all these accounts of former classmates going out of their way to contradict his testimony. And these are from people who he hung out with socially! I don’t envy him that feeling. It seems to me Kavanaugh is the type of guy that has always thrived on being in the “in-crowd”. His opening statement made clear that he sees himself as someone everyone loves and respects. His speech at the Yale Federalist Society banquet was also a bunch of name-dropping puffery, aimed at showing who he knows and who knows him, with little focus on ideas and principles. But it seems as if he wasn’t as universally admired as he wants to believe. If he’s lying about or downplaying his past (and I have little doubt he is), he probably figured no one would out him due to some sense of loyalty. But that assumption is turning out wrong. Either he made some enemies back in the day and underestimated their willingness to talk about him, or his former friends and acquaintances value honesty more than being loyal to him. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5259 "2018-09-29T21:28:45Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > [Limits to FBI's Kavanaugh investigation have not changed, despite Trump's comments](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna915061?__twitter_impression=true) Holy shit. Is there anything the FBI _is_ allowed to investigate? Guess we already know they won’t find anything. Wonder if Flake will accept being fucked like this. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5260 "2018-09-29T21:36:57Z")
So it’s out here clear on the board: The WH is not investigating Swetnicks claim. The WH has sent the FBI witness lists of people the FBI can investigate in the Ford and Ramirez allegations. People not on the list won’t be interviewed. > **[Limits to Kavanaugh investigation have not changed, despite Trump's comments](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna915061?__twitter_impression=true)** > > Trump’s Saturday night tweet has not changed the limits imposed by the White House counsel’s office on the FBI's Kavanaugh investigation, sources say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=262) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=264)