# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 285
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5682 "2018-10-03T00:07:45Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m sure that you’ll argue that in this newly released email when he refers to his group as “prolific pikers” you’ll be arguing that it might actually mean that they are bulimic. They just ate too much spicy spaghetti, poor things. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5683 "2018-10-03T00:14:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You probably shouldn’t claim certainty about what I’ll do. Review your posts and tell me you are not predictable. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5684 "2018-10-03T00:17:29Z")
Remember Bart O’kavanaugh, the fictional character? Bretts nickname was actually Bart, and he signed letters that way, complete with FFFF before it. Whoops… (I thought FFFF was about some stuttering classmate). Why didn’t he just tell Senator Whitehouse that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5685 "2018-10-03T00:19:02Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I don’t know about congressional procedures. Possibly then you should not speak so authoritatively of them. > [@](#): > > I do know that Democrats sat on their hands when Republicans refused to hold hearings, because they tried to play a longer game and have Hillary nominate someone after she won. That’s horseshit. They did the only thing they could do which was complain bitterly about it. Ask someone who does know about congressional procedures what else they as the minority party could have done. Better yet, since you’re so authoritative about this thing you concede you don’t really know, spell out what they should have done. Hold their breath? Storm out of congress? Threaten to shut down the government? None of that would have done squat since the Republicans could give two whits about any of that including shutting down the government. > [@](#): > > But really, it’s nice that you’re satisfied. Nice strawman. Never said I was satisfied. I just put the blame where it belongs using actual knowledge of congressional procedure rather than put everyone on blast because I am too lazy to look up congressional procedures and desire to make false equivalencies based on comforting falsehoods and ignorance. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5686 "2018-10-03T00:20:02Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I never saw RBG exhibit “animosity” for trump. She is entitled to respond to public life in a proportional way without being characterized that way. The whining and bitching about “anti-trump” stuff is absurd. > > I can’t see anything the two have in common. She has not launched into paranoid, alcoholic, denialist rants while being confirmed, for just one thing. Without false equivalences they would have none. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5687 "2018-10-03T00:22:03Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Review your posts and tell me you are not predictable. In fairness a person who argues that “I know him personally” should be interpreted to mean “I don’t know him personally” is fairly unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5688 "2018-10-03T00:23:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > But now you’ve made a claim that I wonder if you can support. I’m taking the author at face value with the assumption that The Atlantic has done some vetting and cross checking. Same as I would for any op-ed written by someone claiming knowledge on a certain subject. > [@](#): > > AFAICT, the article is by an author that is overselling the shit out of a slight acquaintance with Kavanaugh over the years to try to leave gullible people with the impression that one of Kav’s “close friends” / personal relations is denouncing him. I think you (and Evil Economist) fell for it. Did you forget to provide a cite to support this belief? > [@](#): > > I welcome evidence to the contrary. It doesn’t work like that. The evidence is provided in the article. The onus is on you to show Wittes doesn’t really know the guy, if that is your position. But why act as this matters to your opinion? If it was revealed that Witttes and Kavanaugh knew each other as intimately as two heterosexual men could, it ain’t like his negative assessment of Kav as a potential justice would suddenly make you see him as a poor nominee, would it? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5689 "2018-10-03T00:30:47Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Review your posts and tell me you are not predictable. Do you think you could accurately predict what I’m going to post next, or the arguments I’m going to make with any precision or detail? If so, let’s play a game. You can PM some neutral third party your guess, and after I post, we can ask that person to reveal your guess and we can see if it was close or not. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5690 "2018-10-03T00:31:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, that is weird. I think he knows him, but the claim in question was this: “… this someone who knows Kavanaugh on both a personal and professional level …” > > What sort of things, in your mind, would move a relationship from a “professional level” to a personal one? Has Wittes done those things with Kavanaugh? > > ETA: let me put it this way - I have met some people through work that are not particularly good at their job. I might say “I’m fond of him personally, but he’s not very good at his job”. This does NOT mean that I know that person on a “personal level”. I may have never met their family, or hung out with them on the weekends, or get a Christmas card from them, or whatever else might denote knowing someone on a “personal level”. Do you understand? Yes, you may be fond of this person but you made a comment on their job worthiness. Wittes should be granted the same privilege. I personally would rather hear a recommendation for a person seeking employment from a work relation. A person in a intimate relationship with said person is not trustworthy. Of course they will vouch for them. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5691 "2018-10-03T00:31:23Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > In fairness a person who argues that “I know him personally” should be interpreted to mean “I don’t know him personally” is fairly unpredictable. Just like when people say, “He’s a really good friend of mine,” they mean they rode up in an elevator with him one time. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5692 "2018-10-03T00:32:49Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > … Ask someone who does know about congressional procedures what else they as the minority party could have done. … I know a bit about Congressional procedures. I think they should have all resigned their seats in protest. That would have been a powerful, united statement. It would have really shown the strength of their convictions. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5693 "2018-10-03T00:42:27Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > … It doesn’t work like that. The evidence is provided in the article. The onus is on you to show Wittes doesn’t really know the guy, if that is your position. … My “position” was spelled out in post #5657: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … But now you’ve made a claim that I wonder if you can support. You said Wittes knows him on a personal level. What’s your cite for that? Everything the author offers in the article (the Starr investigation, the White House counsel’s office, the D.C. Circuit) deals with a professional relationship, not a personal one. … It was asking you for a cite, because the one we had on offer did not support your claim that they knew each other “on both a personal and professional level”. Are you sure you understand how this works? The claim in question is yours. The onus to provide evidence is on you. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > … But why act as this matters to your opinion? If it was revealed that Witttes and Kavanaugh knew each other as intimately as two heterosexual men could, it ain’t like his negative assessment of Kav as a potential justice would suddenly make you see him as a poor nominee, would it? No, it would not. Beckdawrek said “A person in a intimate relationship with said person is not trustworthy.” You’re probably not going to convince me on the broader matter of Kavanaugh’s fitness for SCOTUS because your arguments aren’t very good and the evidence to support your position is weak, BUT if you could show that they actually did know each other “on both a personal and professional level”, then you could claim a win for being correct on that point, as opposed to the loss you’re currently facing for being incorrect. But I don’t know, perhaps being correct / accurate in what you post is not really important to you. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5694 "2018-10-03T00:43:29Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Just like when people say, “He’s a really good friend of mine,” they mean they rode up in an elevator with him one time. Wittes didn’t say “he’s a really good friend of mine”. **Evil Economist** imagined something along those lines, but has since retracted the claim. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5695 "2018-10-03T00:46:42Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > He’s a habitual liar (doesn’t matter if he manages to stay just this side of perjury), he’s a generally nasty person, he’s got a serious self-control problem, he’s embraced a nutso conspiracy theory, and as Ravenman says, he’s clearly got scores to settle, which he has hinted that he might well do from the bench. If he’s such a bad judge and a bad person, why was he confirmed 12 years ago? Did YOU complain at that time? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5696 "2018-10-03T00:48:40Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Remember Bart O’kavanaugh, the fictional character? > > Bretts nickname was actually Bart, and he signed letters that way, complete with FFFF before it. Whoops… (I thought FFFF was about some stuttering classmate). > > Why didn’t he just tell Senator Whitehouse that? The exchange went like this ([according to WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2018/09/27/kavanaugh-hearing-transcript/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.04df28d9ba18)): > [@](#): > > LEAHY: Judge Kavanaugh, I’ve heard your — your line (ph) and you state it over and over again. And I have that well in mind. But let me ask you this. He authored a book titled, “Wasted: Tales of a Genx Drunk.” He references a Barthold (ph) Kavanaugh vomiting on someone’s car during Beach Week and then passing out. Is that you that he’s talking about? > > KAVANAUGH: Senator, Mark Judge was… > > LEAHY: To your knowledge, is that you that he’s talking about? > > KAVANAUGH: I’ll explain it if you let me. > > LEAHY: Proceed, please. > > KAVANAUGH: Mark Judge was a friend of ours in high school who developed a very serious drinking problem, an addiction problem that lasted decades and was very difficult for him to escape from. > > And he nearly died. And then developed — then he had leukemia as well, on top of it. > > Now, as part of his therapy — or part of his coming to grips with sobriety, he wrote a book that is a fictionalized book and an account…. > > (CROSSTALK) > > KAVANAUGH: I think he picked out names of friends of ours to throw them in as kind of close to what — for characters in the book. So, you know, we can sit here… > > LEAHY: So you don’t know — you don’t know whether that’s you or not? > > KAVANAUGH: … we can sit here and you (ph) like (ph), make — make fun of some guy who has an addiction. > > LEAHY: I’m not making… > > (CROSSTALK) > > KAVANAUGH: I don’t think that really makes — is really good… > > LEAHY: … Judge Kavanaugh, I’m trying to get a straight answer from you under oath. Are you Bart (ph) Kavanaugh that he’s referring to, yes or no? That’s it (ph)… > > KAVANAUGH: You’d have to ask him. > > LEAHY: Well, I agree with you there. And that’s why I wish that the chairman had him here under oath. Earlier in this thread, I believe it was John Mace that shared the story about a lawyer prepping a client for trial. He’d ask them “what time is it?” and when they’d look at their watch, he would correct them that the answer is “I don’t know”. This exchange reminded me of that. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5697 "2018-10-03T00:53:48Z")
[Interesting exchange:](https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-10-02/the-latest-ernst-says-she-intends-to-vote-for-kavanaugh) \*Asked about McConnell pledge to move forward with the vote, Murkowski told The Associated Press that McConnell “talked about a vote a last week, too.” Maine Sen. Susan Collins, another undecided Republican, was riding with Murkowski on an underground Senate train. Collins smiled and told her colleague, “Good answer.”\* ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5698 "2018-10-03T01:03:07Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Possibly then you should not speak so authoritatively of them. > > … I never did speak about congressional procedures. I spoke about Democrats and their willingness to play coy, smug games while being played for fools. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5699 "2018-10-03T01:03:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > But I don’t know, perhaps being correct / accurate in what you post is not really important to you. You’re focused on minutiae that you admit is inconsequential to your opinion about the man. Im not interested in going down rabbit holes with you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5700 "2018-10-03T01:08:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Wittes didn’t say “he’s a really good friend of mine”. **Evil Economist** imagined something along those lines, but has since retracted the claim. However I stand by the remainder of my position that: [ul] [li]Wittes has known Kavenaugh for decades, and knows Kavenaugh better than you do[/li][li]And is better equipped to judge his fitness for office than you are[/li][li]And previously wrote extensively supporting Kavenaugh [/li][li]And has withdrawn his support based on Kavenaugh’s lies, poor behavior, and unacceptable demeanor[/li][/ul] If your only counterargument is that they didn’t spend the Autumn spooning in a bed and breakfast in Virginia, then you got nothing but bluster and nitpicking. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5701 "2018-10-03T01:24:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The exchange went like this ([according to WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2018/09/27/kavanaugh-hearing-transcript/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.04df28d9ba18)): > > Earlier in this thread, I believe it was John Mace that shared the story about a lawyer prepping a client for trial. He’d ask them “what time is it?” and when they’d look at their watch, he would correct them that the answer is “I don’t know”. This exchange reminded me of that. The best part of that exchange was Kav being asked about Mark Judge, responding “you’d have to ask [Mark Judge].” When I heard it live, it kind of summed up for me why we needed an FBI investigation. Guess Kav didn’t take prep well because you say anything but that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=284) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=286)