# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 288
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5742 "2018-10-03T14:05:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Who knows, but the length of time taken on the fear of flying thing is also puzzling. Not to mention the question about, “You’ve been to Australia, RIGHT?” “Uh, no, I sometimes work for an Australian company.” Oops. Despite the miss on the Australia question, I thought the whole line of questioning demonstrated effectively that Ford didn’t actually have a “fear of flying”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5743 "2018-10-03T14:07:21Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I’m starting to see a pattern with regard to the level of evidence you require when it’s something that you want to be true, compared to something that you don’t want to be true. What does the post that qlyou quoted have to do with this? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5744 "2018-10-03T14:19:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Despite the miss on the Australia question, I thought the whole line of questioning demonstrated effectively that Ford didn’t actually have a “fear of flying”. First of all, I know quite a few people who have a very strong fear of flying who, in certain circumstances, simply have to fly once in a while; even though they go to great lengths to avoid doing so. For example, a relative of mine who was scarred by having a job to take photographs of airplane crash sites during a war. Also, B.A. Baracus. Second of all, did this line of inquiry have any probative value at all? I think not. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think so too. No other reason to ask if she had ever GIVEN polygraph tips unless they already knew she had. OMG! It’s a Feinstein-like cover up! Why didn’t the prosector SAY THE NAME of the accuser at the hearing WHEN SHE HAD A CHANCE?!?!?! This attempt to assassinate Ford’s character is a CIRCUS, a SHAM, and her FAMILY IS NOW DESTROYED!1! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5745 "2018-10-03T14:25:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > First of all, I know quite a few people who have a very strong fear of flying who, in certain circumstances, simply have to fly once in a while; even though they go to great lengths to avoid doing so. For example, a relative of mine who was scarred by having a job to take photographs of airplane crash sites during a war. Also, B.A. Baracus. That’s fine, but she flew for vacations. You’re not seriously trying to argue that Ford really does have a “fear of flying” that was a serious obstacle to her coming to Washington to testify, are you? > [@Ravenman](#): > > Second of all, did this line of inquiry have any probative value at all? I think not. It showed, convincingly I believe, that the “fear of flying” excuse was a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5746 "2018-10-03T14:27:40Z")
GOP Senators are bashing Donny over his bashing of Ford. Not to worry though , they will surely vote for Brett anyway. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5747 "2018-10-03T14:28:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > First of all, I know quite a few people who have a very strong fear of flying who, in certain circumstances, simply have to fly once in a while; even though they go to great lengths to avoid doing so. It’s like public speaking. I think many people have a fear of public speaking, but that doesn’t mean they are unable to do it at all. They likely avoid such situations if possible, but sometimes it cannot be avoided. I get waves an anxiety and will have sweat dripping down my back, but I’ve done it when I have to. I also take medication at those times to reduce the anxiety symptoms. It’s not a contradiction at all to say someone has a fear of public speaking even though there are instances of them giving presentations. I don’t have a fear of flying, but I can totally understand if it’s the same kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5748 "2018-10-03T14:29:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s fine, but she flew for vacations. You’re not seriously trying to argue that Ford really does have a “fear of flying” that was a serious obstacle to her coming to Washington to testify, are you? > > It showed, convincingly I believe, that the “fear of flying” excuse was a lie. I wasn’t aware that fear of flying or the timing of the hearing had any significant material bearing on Kavenaugh’s fitness to be on the Supreme Court. If Ford says she likes veggies, but actually feeds them to the family dog under the table, is that another reason why Kavenaugh should be confirmed? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5749 "2018-10-03T14:32:21Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > It’s common for lawyers to front expenses on behalf of their clients and refer them for expert help. It’s also common for opposing counsel to use that against them. Classic example is a lawyer referring a client to a doctor/doctor not getting paid until the case settles. In that scenario, the opposing party deposes the doctor to understand his credentials, and how often he works with this lawyer, for Plaintffs in general, etc. Sometimes it’s shady, sometimes it’s not. > > In this matter, that seems what Mitchell was trying to do with the polygraph. Lawyers paid for it/found the polygraph person/set it all up = can’t trust results. That’s also why Ford wanted the former FBI agent who administered the test to testify and speak to his credentials. 🙂 I know that, being a lawyer myself (and having yesterday just signed up a client for a physiatrist’s examination, which I know I have little chance of being reimbursed for, this fact is right now seared into me :mad: -I digress). And certainly on its own when this line of questioning was pursued, this would have been the obvious answer, and in fact one of the reasons so many people found this strategy puzzling. On the other hand, if Dr Ford did have some prior experience with the workings of polygraphs then this questioning makes sense. Especially since the answer was a straight denial. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5750 "2018-10-03T14:32:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It showed, convincingly I believe, that the “fear of flying” excuse was a lie. What nonsense. I gotta start keeping track of all the times you guys inappropriately try to simplify things like this to a yes/no, on/off sort of thing. How about she _can_ fly, but she finds it quite stressful and emotionally taxing for the reasons she’s given. She will face up to all that, given a good enough reason, but it doesn’t negate the underlying reality. Now that isn’t to say that’s how it is for her; I don’t know her at all. But let’s postulate that as a possibility. And the existence of that possibility means your assertion is false until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5751 "2018-10-03T14:38:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I wasn’t aware that fear of flying or the timing of the hearing had any significant material bearing on Kavenaugh’s fitness to be on the Supreme Court. > > If Ford says she likes veggies, but actually feeds them to the family dog under the table, is that another reason why Kavenaugh should be confirmed? It too would speak to her credibility and truthfulness. The Senators’ opinion of Kav’s fitness largely hinges on whether they believe Ford or not. If she lied about a bunch of stuff, she’s less likely to be telling the truth about other things. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5752 "2018-10-03T14:43:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It too would speak to her credibility and truthfulness. The Senators’ opinion of Kav’s fitness largely hinges on whether they believe Ford or not. If she lied about a bunch of stuff, she’s less likely to be telling the truth about other things. Okay, so we know that Kavenaugh misrepresented his drinking – further evidence that he committed the sexual assault. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5753 "2018-10-03T14:44:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It too would speak to her credibility and truthfulness. The Senators’ opinion of Kav’s fitness largely hinges on whether they believe Ford or not. If she lied about a bunch of stuff, she’s less likely to be telling the truth about other things. Even if she did lie, it still doesn’t excuse Kav’s lies and partisan BS. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5754 "2018-10-03T14:48:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Okay, so we know that Kavenaugh misrepresented his drinking – further evidence that he committed the sexual assault. Right? I don’t think we “know” that. And, for clarity’s sake, I don’t think we “know” that Ford lied about giving polygraph tips or having a “fear of flying”, but there’s now some good evidence available that she did. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5755 "2018-10-03T14:49:52Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Even if she did lie, … But it does, at least in the minds of many people, cause some doubt about the other things she claimed. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5756 "2018-10-03T14:50:57Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > What nonsense. I gotta start keeping track of all the times you guys inappropriately try to simplify things like this to a yes/no, on/off sort of thing. > > How about she _can_ fly, but she finds it quite stressful and emotionally taxing for the reasons she’s given. She will face up to all that, given a good enough reason, but it doesn’t negate the underlying reality. > > Now that isn’t to say that’s how it is for her; I don’t know her at all. But let’s postulate that as a possibility. And the existence of that possibility means your assertion is false until proven otherwise. TBasically in the days leading up to the hearing there was a lot of claims being and that Professor Ford did not want to come to D.C due to a fear of flying. The line of questioning was to attack that claim and put it to her that she was doing this to avoid timely questioning, again basic cross examination techniques. And yes, that could have been countered by what you post above. However, in the eventProfessor Ford volunteered herself that she did not know the committtee was willing to fly out to California and she would have been happy to host them there. So it became moot. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5757 "2018-10-03T14:51:08Z")
After a midair near-emergency, I had a “fear of flying” (in that I experienced considerable anxiety during takeoff and landing, and sought alternatives when possible), for many years. Nevertheless, I frequently flew, both for work and leisure travel, and just sucked it up knowing that I’d feel anxiety. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5758 "2018-10-03T14:53:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > But it does, at least in the minds of many people, cause some doubt about the other things she claimed. Interesting how you clipped my post there. :rolleyes: What argument are you trying to make? It’s okay if he does it, but NOT ok if she does it? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5759 "2018-10-03T14:54:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think we “know” that. And, for clarity’s sake, I don’t think we “know” that Ford lied about giving polygraph tips or having a “fear of flying”, but there’s now some good evidence available that she did. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5760 "2018-10-03T14:54:25Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Lindsay Graham apparently just said that if Kavanaugh is rejected, that Trump should renominate Kavanaugh. I can’t even tell what the possible strategy there would be. Senator Graham elaborated a bit on this on South Carolina radio. He proposes that if the Kavanaugh nomination fails by one vote that in that case Trump should renominate Kavanaugh. He emphasized the one vote margin a few times. Graham thinks that a “No” vote by Democratic senators in states that Trump won could then be used effectively in electioneering to help Republicans win Senate seats in North Dakota, West Virginia, and Indiana. And a Republican win in any one of those states (assuming Republicans hold all their incumbent seats up for reelection in the senate) would be the 50th vote needed to get a renominated Kavanaugh confirmed with Pence casting the tie breaking vote. But if Republicans do not pick up a seat they could withdraw the renomination of Kavanaugh and go with someone else, Senator Mike Lee being an oft mentioned alternative choice. And a Senate with an unchanged R-D balance may be able to approve a different nominee. And if Republicans lose control of the Senate entirely they still have until early January to ram through another nominee in a lame duck session. Oddly, Graham has referred to his renomination idea as appealing a NO vote on Kavanaugh to the voters. Yet it hinges on a fall back plan of filling the seat with a lame duck session nominee if the voters oust incumbent Republicans and give control of the incoming Senate to Democrats — precisely the opposite of the will of the voters in such case, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/5761 "2018-10-03T14:55:26Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Interesting how you clipped my post there. :rolleyes: > > What argument are you trying to make? It’s okay if he does it, but NOT ok if she does it? I don’t think I’d call it “OK” in either case. I certainly don’t approve of it or recommend it to anyone as a best practice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=287) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=289)