# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 327
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6522 "2018-10-06T19:08:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … This is to determine if Kavanaugh is fit to sit on the Supreme Court. Something he is not entitled to. … I think we’re likely to see that a majority of the US Senate disagrees with your opinion on this point. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … Second, we have corroborating evidence that Kavanaugh is a rapey kind of guy. From Julie Swetnick and Deborah Ramirez … I believe neither Julie Swetnick nor Deborah Ramirez claimed that Kavanaugh raped anyone. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … Third, you have the very credible testimony given by Blasey-Ford. Even republican senators claimed it was credible. … “credible” != corroborated > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … Fourth, Brett Kavanaugh’s testimony caught him in [lies and weird fabrications](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brett-kavanaugh-lies_us_5bb26190e4b027da00d61fcd) (Devil’s Triangle is a drinking game…really?). … Yes, I think it has been fairly convincingly shown that [“Devil’s Triangle” likely was a drinking game among Kav’s high school pals](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/devils-triangle-drinking-game-explained-by-ex-classmates-of-brett-kavanaugh). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6523 "2018-10-06T19:19:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Honestly? Probably not, not that I actually have a daughter. Because my emotions would probably trump rationality in that situation. But if I’m a hiring manager for a company, let alone for the government, I have a duty to be impartial and rational, not emotional, about the hiring. > > This demonstrates another way that false allegations are so damaging. Even people like me, who know it’s wrong to judge based on a mere allegation, would probably end up doing so. > > However, we’re not just talking about an unproven allegation here, with respect to Kavanaugh. We are talking about one that has been thoroughly shown to have not happened in the way Ford described, with significant evidence against it and nothing apart from her claim in favour of it. > > And no, the claim that she told someone about it 2 years ago doesn’t corroborate her story. At most it shows she’s been making an unsupported claim for slightly longer, depending on whether you believe that she told the therapist about the same incident - despite the lack of names and differing details. This is just total nonsense from start to finish. First of all anyone hiring such a babysitter would not be judged by any sane person to be acting “rationally”; anyone hiring such a babysitter would be judged to be recklessly irresponsible. Again, no rational person would apply the standards required to secure a criminal conviction when assessing the character of a candidate for a critical position of power in which he could potentially do great harm. Ford’s testimony was detailed and self-consistent and presented in a very credible fashion. No one refuted it. Kavanough, meanwhile, [lied his ass off _ **under oath** _](https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/brett-kavanaugh-lies_us_5bb26190e4b027da00d61fcd), and delivered the entire testimony – lies and all – in a manner that demonstrated an unhinged temperament unsuitable for judge in the top court – so much so that he was persuaded to write a sort of apology in the WSJ. His testimony alone should have disqualified him. His perjury should have disqualified him – and he clearly lied even if his denial of Ford’s story is truthful. Plus the fact that the purpose of the lies was to hide his true character as a drunken lout, which is consistent with behaving in the way that Ford described. Which is why [all these prominent non-political or conservative people and organizations](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21251984&postcount=6477) opposed his nomination. This is a sad moment in the history of this country and it’s going to have repercussions for many many years to come. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6524 "2018-10-06T19:38:26Z")
And the fake news! President ShroomDick just tweeted about the masses of Women for Kavanaugh coming to demonstrate their support, and the fake news is just showing a bunch of paid protestors and their fancy-dancy signs! No cameras trained on the aforementioned masses of Women for Kavanaugh. I’ll just bop over to Fox…oh. Same picture. Shit, Soros has gotten to Fox! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6525 "2018-10-06T19:47:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Would you hire someone against whom there were credible but unproven allegations of sexual abuse to babysit your daughter? No? What happened to “innocent until proven guilty”? Define “credible but unproven”. Isn’t that kinda like that Obamaism where he says he doesn’t know the facts, but others acted stupidly? p.s. I babysat my own daughters. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6526 "2018-10-06T19:50:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This is just total nonsense from start to finish. First of all anyone hiring such a babysitter would not be judged by any sane person to be acting “rationally”; anyone hiring such a babysitter would be judged to be recklessly irresponsible. Again, no rational person would apply the standards required to secure a criminal conviction when assessing the character of a candidate for a critical position of power in which he could potentially do great harm. We could start by requiring _any corroborating evidence_ to the claim, which test the allegation against Kavanaugh fails. At the very minimum, preponderance of evidence should be the test - and the preponderance of evidence proves (to this standard, not to criminal standard) that the events ford claims happened did not, in fact, happen. > [@](#): > > Ford’s testimony was detailed and self-consistent and presented in a very credible fashion. No one refuted it. Kavanough, meanwhile, [lied his ass off _ **under oath** _](https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/brett-kavanaugh-lies_us_5bb26190e4b027da00d61fcd), and delivered the entire testimony – lies and all – in a manner that demonstrated an unhinged temperament unsuitable for judge in the top court – so much so that he was persuaded to write a sort of apology in the WSJ. His testimony alone should have disqualified him. His perjury should have disqualified him – and he clearly lied even if his denial of Ford’s story is truthful. Plus the fact that the purpose of the lies was to hide his true character as a drunken lout, which is consistent with behaving in the way that Ford described. Which is why [all these prominent non-political or conservative people and organizations](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21251984&postcount=6477) opposed his nomination. Ford’s testimony has been either refuted or clearly not supported by every single person she named that could possibly corroborate it. And there were no clear, unambiguous lies in Kavanaugh’s testimony. However, there was obvious evasion and attempts to change the subject, done in an unpleasant fashion. That is, to put it mildly, not great behaviour for a judge or lawyer, and if he were to be found unsuitable for that reason, that would be fine. If his demeanour in court was shown to be similar to that, I’d say he definitely _should_ be prevented from sitting on the SCOTUS. And that’s apart from his views making him unsuitable. None of which means he’s actually a sexual predator - the evidence is firmly against that. > [@](#): > > This is a sad moment in the history of this country and it’s going to have repercussions for many many years to come. It’s one in a long series of sad moments. Really, it was obvious two years or more ago, when probably the two worst possible candidates for President were put forward by the parties, that shit would be going down. Then the significantly worse of the two got elected - Hilary was, for want of a better way to put it, terrible within the normal parameters of politicians. Trump is an extreme outlier. But you know what else is a sad moment? That these false allegations against Kavanaugh have become so important. Anyone with any sense can see they’re false, and anyone who claims that they are relevant to him becoming judge is an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6527 "2018-10-06T19:52:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I believe neither Julie Swetnick nor Deborah Ramirez claimed that Kavanaugh raped anyone. Neither did Ford. Exactly no-one has accused him of raping anybody. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6528 "2018-10-06T19:52:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ahem - [Christine Blasey Ford’s Attorneys Reveal Statement From Corroborating Witness](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christine-blasey-ford-attorneys-keith-koegler_us_5bb8205e4b0876eda9e3d85) STOP THE PRESSES - Keith Koegler admits that he wasn’t present whenever Ford thinks she was allegedly molested. And now for some partial sports scores. Bears 14, Cubs 4, Blackhawks 9. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6529 "2018-10-06T19:59:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, I think it has been fairly convincingly shown that [“Devil’s Triangle” likely was a drinking game among Kav’s high school pals](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/devils-triangle-drinking-game-explained-by-ex-classmates-of-brett-kavanaugh). Not really, from that same cite: > [@](#): > > Not all the people in Kavanaugh’s past agree that “Devil’s Triangle” was just a drinking game. James Roche, who shared a two-bedroom unit with Kavanaugh at Yale, claimed it was common knowledge that the phrase was sexual in nature. > > “Those words were commonly used, and they were references to sexual activities,” Roche said on CNN recently. “If you think about the context in which you might hear those words, the way that he described [how] they are defined and the way they are defined, they’re not interchangeable.” > > He further added that he heard Kavanaugh and his buddies talking about “Devil’s Triangle” and “boofing” “regularly.” > > “I think that contributed to some of my feelings about the fact that these guys treated women in a way I didn’t like,” he added. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6530 "2018-10-06T20:04:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not really, from that same cite: So a College pal has special knowledge of what it means for his High School Pals? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6531 "2018-10-06T20:05:05Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > STOP THE PRESSES - Keith Koegler admits that he wasn’t present whenever Ford thinks she was allegedly molested. And now for some partial sports scores. Bears 14, Cubs 4, Blackhawks 9. Well, I got confused before by telling us that all her history was not agreed by others. Since it is about the witnesses or people at the party, even that does not lead one to claim that all the ones present did not agree with her. > **[All of Brett Kavanaugh's Lies](https://www.gq.com/story/all-of-brett-kavanaughs-lies)** > > An attempt to catalog the various lies told by the embattled Supreme Court nominee—including while under oath. > [@](#): > > This is outright false. Two of the witnesses—Leland Ingham Keyser and Patrick J. Smyth—whom Blasey Ford named, couldn’t remember the night in question, which would make sense given that it was an uneventful gathering for them dating back several decades. Mark Judge, the only witness in the room, refused to testify to the Senate Judiciary Committee. **Keyser, the longtime friend, previously told The Washington Post she believes Ford’s allegation.** After the hearing, Keyser released another statement through her lawyer reiterating that she “does not refute Dr. Ford’s account, and she has already told the press that she believes Dr. Ford’s account.” ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6532 "2018-10-06T20:06:00Z")
The answer to the question in the OP is **No**. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6533 "2018-10-06T20:09:39Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > So a College pal has special knowledge of what it means for his High School Pals? > :smack: College is the same as high school, but with ashtrays, as a comedian once commented. 🙂 The problem for Kavanaugh was that he claimed in his senate testimony that thanks to his drinking “I’ve gone to sleep, but—but I’ve never blacked out.” That **never** is not just about high school, it meant that he got better, but that was not the case. > **[All of Brett Kavanaugh's Lies](https://www.gq.com/story/all-of-brett-kavanaughs-lies)** > > An attempt to catalog the various lies told by the embattled Supreme Court nominee—including while under oath. > [@](#): > > Kavanaugh made his liking for beer a central part of his testimony, mentioning it no less than 28 times and claiming, ridiculously: “If every American who drinks beer or every American who drank beer in high school is suddenly presumed guilty of sexual assault, will be an ugly, new place in this country.” Over and over, he disputed, as Klobuchar put it, that he “drank so much that you didn’t remember what happened.” And he had already previously denied to Martha MacCallum in a Fox News interview that there was “ever a time that you drank so much that you couldn’t remember what happened the night before.” > > The “blatant lying” and “lying under oath” inspired two of his Yale classmates to dispute his account in separate CNN interviews. Brookes described him as “stumbling drunk” and said, “I can almost guarantee that he doesn’t remember that night.” Swisher countered that “there’s no problem with drinking beer in college; the problem is lying about it,” and that “I don’t think many of his answers were credible.” I would think that lying under oath should be disqualifying when applying for a job, but it is ok for many Republicans in congress now. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6534 "2018-10-06T20:11:02Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The answer to the question in the OP is **No**. Glad we wrapped that up quick! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6535 "2018-10-06T20:15:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The answer to the question in the OP is **No**. As I also commented very early in this or other thread, that was going to be the most likely outcome; now, I have to say that it is very likely that many who are being rubber stamps for the big lies administration will have another thing coming at them this November. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6536 "2018-10-06T20:16:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > **Doorhinge** ’s post is smoke and mirrors anyway. > > First, applying criminal trial levels of proof here is not appropriate. This is to determine if Kavanaugh is fit to sit on the Supreme Court. Something he is not entitled to. > > Second, we have corroborating evidence that Kavanaugh is a rapey kind of guy. From Julie Swetnick and Deborah Ramirez and Christine Blasey Ford. > > **doorhinge** wants you to believe that since each person is not individually corroborated that there is no corroboration when, in legal terms, they are corroborating each other as to the character of Kavanaugh. > > Third, you have the very credible testimony given by Blasey-Ford. Even republican senators claimed it was credible. (post shortened) Good Grief! Blasey-Ford tells Moe that someone molested her. Blasey-Ford tells Larry that someone molested her. Blasey-Ford tells Curly that someone molested her. Moe, Larry, and Curly tell people that Blasey-Ford told them that she claims she was molested. That is NOT corroborating evidence. That is three people repeating what Blasey-Ford told them. Moe, Larry, and Curly were not present. Moe, Larry, Curly are offering hearsay evidence. Hearsay, not actual evidence, it’s hearsay evidence. People have said that Blasey-Ford’s story was very credible. She certainly sounded credible, but that is not the same thing as saying she was factual, or truthful, or reliable. The confirmation vote has been taken and Kavanaugh has been confirmed. So the answer to the threads question - _Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh?_ - the answer is no. I’m going to have a smoke. You can look in the mirror and wonder how the Democrats failed again. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6537 "2018-10-06T20:26:32Z")
50-48 :smack: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6538 "2018-10-06T20:34:00Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The answer to the question in the OP is **No**. I was waiting to post this exact thing. You beat me to it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6539 "2018-10-06T20:36:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not really, from that same cite: A college roommate commenting on what these things meant to Kav’s high-school pals? That’s not an insight I’d expect him to have. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6540 "2018-10-06T20:36:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I was waiting to post this exact thing. You beat me to it. ☹ 🙂 I had it ready for weeks, with a yes or no as needed. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/6541 "2018-10-06T20:41:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I was waiting to post this exact thing. You beat me to it. ☹ Confirmed. It’s a done deal. I hope one good thing that comes out of this, besides a long Kavanaugh SCOTUS tenure, is that more (hopefully all, or most) victims of assault report the attack right away, so that hopefully any forensic evidence can be collected. The best out come would be the elimination of sexual assaults. With the #MeToo movement, i hope this happens. I’ve asked my wife and daughter, and fortunately they’ve never been assaulted, although there was likely some inappropriate behavior that occurred in the past and I look forward to discussing that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=326) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=328)