# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/661 "2018-09-13T00:17:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When you stop promoting federal judges as philosopher-kings, I’ll stop pointing out your promotion of federal judges as philosopher-kings. You must have me confused with somebody who thinks you’re witty and profound. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/662 "2018-09-13T09:42:17Z")
> **[The Evidence Is Clear: Brett Kavanaugh Lied to the Senate Judiciary Committee](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/brett-kavanaugh-lies-senate-testimony-supreme-court.html)** > > His reward will be a seat on the Supreme Court. Another article saying that Kavanaugh lied to the committee. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/663 "2018-09-13T10:59:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And if a pure interest in representative democracy does not sway you, then this thought experiment should: > > Trump is, like it or not, the President. Which judge should he appoint? > > (1) A judge that says, “I dispense justice as I see it. I’m not concerned about the opinions of dead men in wigs. I will deliver results that make this country better!” And remember: Trump picked this judge. > > (2) A judge that says, “My ideas about wise legislative choices and policies have no place in my opinions. I deliver a reading of the law as written, applied to the facts before me.” > > I know that you WANT Judge 1 picked by Obama. But that’s not an option right now. So are your interests better served by Trump-picked Judge 1 or Trump-picked Judge 2? There’s a shit-ton of excluded middle there. Seriously, where do dissenting opinions come from? Are they all because some Justices “deliver[ed] a reading of the law as written, applied to the facts before” them, and some didn’t? Is it all balls and strikes, with dissenters refusing to recognize that that pitch outside the strike zone is really a ball, and insisting in their dissents that it’s really a strike? Because if it’s possible that in some circumstances, there’s more than one correct way for a Justice to “deliver a reading of the law as written, applied to the facts before” him/her, then the choice of which possible correct way to read and apply the law must involve wisdom and judgment (or lack thereof, but that’s not to be desired, is it?). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/664 "2018-09-13T12:23:36Z")
So, guys, are you all done whatabouting all of the failed Republican (and Whig!) Court nominations yet? Is it time to dig into the histories of the Federalist and Democratic-Republican administrations now? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/665 "2018-09-13T12:23:55Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > There’s a shit-ton of excluded middle there. > > Seriously, where do dissenting opinions come from? Are they all because some Justices “deliver[ed] a reading of the law as written, applied to the facts before” them, and some didn’t? Is it all balls and strikes, with dissenters refusing to recognize that that pitch outside the strike zone is really a ball, and insisting in their dissents that it’s really a strike? > > Because if it’s possible that in some circumstances, there’s more than one correct way for a Justice to “deliver a reading of the law as written, applied to the facts before” him/her, then the choice of which possible correct way to read and apply the law must involve wisdom and judgment (or lack thereof, but that’s not to be desired, is it?). Dissents can arise when a judge has a different view of the role of the judiciary, and they can arise when judges reach different conclusions even though they share a general agreement on the proper role of the judiciary. For example, Judge (1) above, appointed by Trump, would reach very different conclusions in many cases than Judge (1) appointed by Obama, yet both believe that a judge’s role is to deliver justice and wise social policy. Judge (2)s might also dissent from each other, but much less than their Judge (1) counterparts do. The (2) model does not create uniform decisions— it simply has greater fidelity to the notion that we have a representative democracy, and much less variance in results than (1) model. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/666 "2018-09-13T13:46:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [Brett Kavanaugh lied to the Senate to earn his appellate court seat.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/brett-kavanaugh-lies-senate-testimony-supreme-court.html) > > Another article saying that Kavanaugh lied to the committee. The argument boils down to “there is no way he could not have known…”. That’s different from showing “here is proof that he did know”. Also, note that your article ends with: > [@](#): > > There is no indication that Kavanaugh will face any consequences for misleading the committee. Instead, he’ll get rewarded with a seat on the Supreme Court. I quote that in deference to the subject of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/667 "2018-09-13T13:54:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The argument boils down to “there is no way he could not have known…”. That’s different from showing “here is proof that he did know”. No it isn’t. Draw a Venn diagram if it helps. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/668 "2018-09-13T15:35:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The (2) model does not create uniform decisions— it simply has greater fidelity to the notion that we have a representative democracy, and much less variance in results than (1) model. If the (2) model doesn’t create uniform decisions, it means there has to be some input to supplement the law and the facts to determine which of the possible decisions consistent with the law and the facts should be the actual decision. Even if that input is rolling a literal die, there still has to be such input. Seems like wisdom and judgment derived from life experience would be better than rolling a die. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/669 "2018-09-13T17:44:06Z")
> **[Dianne Feinstein Acknowledges Having A Secret Brett Kavanaugh Document](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dianne-feinstein-brett-kavanaugh-document_n_5b9a90eee4b01151973bca90?qx=)** > > The California senator has been extraordinarily tight-lipped about a document her fellow Democrats want to see made public. Senator Feinstein has a secret document that supposedly reveals information about a years old incident involving Kavanaugh and an unnamed woman. So far nothing but rumor at this point about the details, though Feinstein says she has a document that she referred to law enforcement relating to Kavanaugh. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/670 "2018-09-13T17:44:44Z")
A possibly [interesting tidbit](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/13/dianne-feinstein-refers-letter-on-supreme-court-nominee-kavanaugh-to-feds.html): \*The top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Dianne Feinstein of California, said Thursday that she has referred a letter concerning Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh to federal authorities. “I have received information from an individual concerning the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court,” Sen. Feinstein said. “That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further, and I have honored that decision. I have, however, referred the matter to federal investigative authorities.”\* Edit: Ninjaed ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/671 "2018-09-13T17:50:59Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > A possibly [interesting tidbit](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/13/dianne-feinstein-refers-letter-on-supreme-court-nominee-kavanaugh-to-feds.html): > > \*The top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Dianne Feinstein of California, said Thursday that she has referred a letter concerning Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh to federal authorities. > > “I have received information from an individual concerning the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court,” Sen. Feinstein said. “That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further, and I have honored that decision. I have, however, referred the matter to federal investigative authorities.”\* > > Edit: Ninjaed You left out the details: > [@](#): > > According to the outlet, the letter is rumored to include details about an incident involving Kavanaugh that took place during his time at Georgetown Preparatory School in Maryland. > > \ > > The letter was reportedly written by someone affiliated with Stanford University, who is not the subject of the letter Some person who is not the person affected is claiming Kavanaugh did something in High School. Am I getting that right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/672 "2018-09-13T18:14:08Z")
Interesting anecdote. Kavanaugh was at Georgetown Prep 2 years ahead of Gorsuch, who also went there. Kavanaugh went to Yale, though, while Gorsuch went to Harvard. Harvard. Yale. That’s some serious diversity right there! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/673 "2018-09-13T18:15:07Z")
disregard ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/674 "2018-09-13T18:19:42Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > If the (2) model doesn’t create uniform decisions, it means there has to be some input to supplement the law and the facts to determine which of the possible decisions consistent with the law and the facts should be the actual decision. > > Even if that input is rolling a literal die, there still has to be such input. > > Seems like wisdom and judgment derived from life experience would be better than rolling a die. Trump is the nominating power. That is a given today. Under that, do you prefer that he picks a judge that agrees “wisdom and life experiences” are a central source of insight? This would be a judge whose wisdom and life experiences resonate with Trump. Or do you prefer he picks judges that believe wisdom and life experiences ought not to be a central source of insight? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/675 "2018-09-13T18:31:33Z")
Heads they win, tails, they win, but we get to pick! Gee, that’s swell! And the peasants rejoice… ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/676 "2018-09-13T19:15:44Z")
another pubic hair on a Coke can or long dong silver video? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/677 "2018-09-13T19:31:59Z")
Still wondering why there were, and still are, complaints about Bork’s rejection. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/678 "2018-09-13T19:35:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Still wondering why there were, and still are, complaints about Bork’s rejection. because she’s from Iceland? [Björk - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B6rk) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/679 "2018-09-13T19:38:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Still wondering why there were, and still are, complaints about Bork’s rejection. If you haven’t figured it out during the many times we’ve rehashed that topic, you’re probably doomed to be left wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/680 "2018-09-13T19:52:07Z")
> [@](#): > > The top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Dianne Feinstein of California, said Thursday that she has referred a letter concerning Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh to federal authorities. > > “I have received information from an individual concerning the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court,” Sen. Feinstein said. “That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further, and I have honored that decision. I have, however, referred the matter to federal investigative authorities.” So she honored the individual’s desire not to press the matter further by referring it to federal investigative authorities? That’s an interesting way to put it. As I recall, Anita Hill didn’t want to come forward either, but [Nina Totenberg](https://www.wnyc.org/story/165598-20-years-later-anita-hill-and-the-justice-thomas-confirmation-hearings/) forced the issue[after it was leaked](https://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/06/us/inquiry-fails-to-find-source-of-leak-at-thomas-hearing.html). Not that Ms. Feinstein would do anything unethical, unless she could get the hearings further delayed or re-opened, or as a simple smear. IOW, she would. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=35)