# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1121 "2018-09-17T17:02:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > … a nomination that never should have happened … Why do you think this nomination “never should have happened”? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1122 "2018-09-17T17:02:41Z")
As I’ve said earlier, I think Kavanagh should be confirmed even if the allegations are 100% true. But leaving that aside, I don’t see what investigating could possibly accomplish. The alleged victim says she didn’t tell anyone about it for 30 years. She doesn’t remember any details that would allow for corroboration. The only other person she named (who turned out to be her alleged rescuer, not attacker as previously reported) denies it strongly. What’s the likelihood that it could end up anything other than an allegation? What’s to “investigate”? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I suspect the difference in opinions on the matter revolves around the word “plausibly” not the particular crime. I agree with this. If someone came forward and accused Kavanagh (or anyone) of murder in the exact same manner as this accusation - 35 years ago, zero detail that would allow for corroboration or refutation - I would (continue to) support that person’s nomination for anything in particular. To do otherwise hands a weapon to anyone in the world to take down anyone else. “Many years ago, some place or other, I once saw the guy do X …” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1123 "2018-09-17T17:03:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If Kavanaugh was plausibly accused of murdering someone when he was 17, I wonder how many of his supporters would be okay with his being named to the Supreme Court. If he could plausibly be accused of murder, there would be a trial and a dead body and he might even be in jail, so I’m not seeing that as a very good analogy. But if there was no dead body, no trial, and the only witness was someone who said he saw something 35 years ago while he was drinking, I don’t think I’d keep him off the court based just on that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1124 "2018-09-17T17:07:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > As I’ve said earlier, I think Kavanagh should be confirmed even if the allegations are 100% true. But leaving that aside, I don’t see what investigating could possibly accomplish. > > The alleged victim says she didn’t tell anyone about it for 30 years. She doesn’t remember any details that would allow for corroboration. The only other person she named (who turned out to be her alleged rescuer, not attacker as previously reported) denies it strongly. What’s the likelihood that it could end up anything other than an allegation? What’s to “investigate”? An investigation might find out whether Kavanaugh lied to the committee (as well as providing more time for potential other alleged victims to come forward). If Ford was truthful, than Kavanaugh lied. You don’t think lying during the Senate’s consideration process should be disqualifying? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1125 "2018-09-17T17:09:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > An investigation might find out whether Kavanaugh lied to the committee (as well as providing more time for potential other alleged victims to come forward). If Ford was truthful, than Kavanaugh lied. You don’t think lying during the Senate’s consideration process should be disqualifying? The whole point of my post is that the “investigation” won’t be able to find out anything at all. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1126 "2018-09-17T17:09:54Z")
The therapist’s notes allegedly say that Ford claimed that she was attacked by four people, not two. Ford says that’s incorrect, and there were four people in the house. ([Cite](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/09/16/california-professor-christine-ford-claims-kavanaugh-sexually-assaulted-her-it-derailed-me.html).) I wonder if she remembers the other two. She said it derailed her for four or five years, but it is not clear if that means during the 80s when this allegedly occurred, or later, around 2012 when she was doing the couples therapy. Feinstein is continuing to cover herself in glory, of course. She is calling for the FBI to investigate right after they said they couldn’t. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Kavanaugh’s categorical denial (“no, I did not do that and I have never done anything like that”) leads him pretty much zero room to back off and say something like “sometimes I drank too much as a student and it’s possible I blacked out and behaved inappropriately” if the evidence becomes overwhelming that Ford is being truthful. That’s certainly true. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1127 "2018-09-17T17:12:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The therapist’s notes allegedly say that Ford claimed that she was attacked by four people, not two. Ford says that’s incorrect … Not great for Ford when she herself is impeaching the accuracy of the one piece of corroborating physical evidence (albeit generated decades after the incident) that she has. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1128 "2018-09-17T17:12:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The whole point of my post is that the “investigation” won’t be able to find out anything at all. Sure it could. They could ask Kavanaugh if he’s ever met Ford. They could ask him if he ever had any intimate encounters with Ford. They could ask him if he ever drank too much as a student. They could ask him if he ever blacked out from drinking as a student. They could ask him many other things that could be very revealing both about this incident and his overall character. Maybe he’d deny everything, or maybe he “wouldn’t recall” anything, or maybe he’d say “yes” to some of the questions, or many other possibilities. Much of that would be revealing. Further, perception is a real thing for this process. It’s important that the SCOTUS be seen as a legitimate institution. If someone is forced through the process and a credible accusation of attempted rape is totally ignored and not investigated at all, then that will reasonably harm the legitimacy of the SCOTUS in the minds of many Americans. The Senate has a duty to try and prevent its legitimacy from being harmed, and thus a full investigation (including calling witnesses and asking questions) is warranted. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1129 "2018-09-17T17:14:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do you think this nomination “never should have happened”? Would you like to resume the conversation we were having some pages ago, regarding Sen Leahy’s accusations? You bailed. And now you want to pretend you haven’t heard anything I said? As Sen Leahy said “I was born at night, but not _last_ night!”. Actually, I was born at dawn. I wasn’t ready, it was too early and there was no coffee… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1130 "2018-09-17T17:15:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Would you like to resume the conversation we were having some pages ago, regarding Sen Leahy’s accusations? You bailed. And now you want to pretend you haven’t heard anything I said? As Sen Leahy said “I was born at night, but not _last_ night!”. > > Actually, I was born at dawn. I wasn’t ready, it was too early and there was no coffee… Could you provide some specifics? A cite maybe? What particular question would you like me to answer for you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1131 "2018-09-17T17:21:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The whole point of my post is that the “investigation” won’t be able to find out anything at all. The investigation may consist of nothing more than interviewing Ford. And Kavanaugh. It might find inconsistencies in one of their stories. The investigation might also consist of an interview with Judge (not likely to be productive, but you never know until you do it) and possibly the other person or 2 people who were allegedly in the house at the time. Ford might have other people she would recommend interviewing as might Kavanaugh. And it’s going to happen in some way shape or form whether anyone here wants it to or not. You already said nothing they could say will affect your decision. Some of the Senators on the GOP side think otherwise, and maybe a few Democrats, too. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1132 "2018-09-17T17:21:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure it could. They could ask Kavanaugh if he’s ever met Ford. They could ask him if he ever had any intimate encounters with Ford. They could ask him if he ever drank too much as a student. They could ask him if he ever blacked out from drinking as a student. They could ask him many other things that could be very revealing both about this incident and his overall character. > > Maybe he’d deny everything, or maybe he “wouldn’t recall” anything, or maybe he’d say “yes” to some of the questions, or many other possibilities. Much of that would be revealing. I don’t agree that any of these potential answers would be revealing about either the incident or his overall character. > [@](#): > > Further, perception is a real thing for this process. It’s important that the SCOTUS be seen as a legitimate institution. If someone is forced through the process and a credible accusation of attempted rape is totally ignored and not investigated at all, then that will reasonably harm the legitimacy of the SCOTUS in the minds of many Americans. The Senate has a duty to try and prevent its legitimacy from being harmed, and thus a full investigation (including calling witnesses and asking questions) is warranted. This seems entirely self-fulfilling. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1133 "2018-09-17T17:24:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The investigation may consist of nothing more than interviewing Ford. And Kavanaugh. It might find inconsistencies in one of their stories. The investigation might also consist of an interview with Judge (not likely to be productive, but you never know until you do it) and possibly the other person or 2 people who were allegedly in the house at the time. Ford might have other people she would recommend interviewing as might Kavanaugh. But it’s 35 years later. No amount of inconsistencies are going to prove or disprove the story (especially disprove it, since there’s also the “trauma” trump card to explain it all away). > [@](#): > > And it’s going to happen in some way shape or form whether anyone here wants it to or not. Certainly she’ll have a chance to tell her story if she wants to. I just don’t see that anything meaningful can possibly come out of it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1134 "2018-09-17T17:25:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But it’s 35 years later. No amount of inconsistencies are going to prove or disprove the story (especially disprove it, since there’s also the “trauma” trump card to explain it all away). > > Certainly she’ll have a chance to tell her story if she wants to. I just don’t see that anything meaningful can possibly come out of it. We’ll see. If what comes out of it is a change to the support of Kavanugh, then that will be very “meaningful”. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1135 "2018-09-17T17:25:36Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > But this same charge could could not be plausibly leveled by just anyone. > > Literally anyone who just wanted to disrupt the nomination process on the flimsiest of accusations could have made an anonymous report about any purported misconduct. They could accuse Kavanaugh of rape, or pedophilia, or necrophilia, or kicking puppies. > > This started as a anonymous report and I believed it even then. There are lots of reasons to want to remain anonymous when leveling such an accusation. Shame, fear of retaliation, getting doxed and harassed by supporters, the likely futility, etc. But, I can understand why reasonable people might disregard an anonymous report as unreliable. Maybe my belief was partisan. I can accept that. But, maybe people who disbelieved the anonymous report are also disbelieving for partisan reasons. In light of new evidence, they should revisit their disbelief. > > We eventually learned who the accuser was. It wasn’t a Russian troll, a 20-year-old man, or a hermit in the Andes mountains. Kavanaugh’s accuser a woman who grew up in the same area that Kavanaugh grew up in, who is roughly the same age, who knew him, who knew Kavanaugh’s friend by name, who knew that Kavanaugh partied with this friend, and knew their style of partying to know that they basically got black-out drunk together. So now, we’re down to a universe of maybe a few dozens of women who could have accused him of this. > > And, of those few dozens of women, the one to accuse him had to bear enough of a grudge against Kavanaugh that she would want to tell a story decades later to keep him off the Supreme Court. I believe that his attempting to rape her might be such a motivation. I can’t think of a lot of other reasons for someone to hold such a grudge privately for years. > > If she were inventing a story, she would also have to believe that an attempted rape accusation is the best way to do this, even though as a woman today, she must recognize that questioning a woman’s credibility and disregarding her evidence is routine in claims of sexual harassment and rape. Kavanaugh’s accuser must look at how Anita Hill was treated and think “I want that for myself.” If she were making up the story she also have had to decide that talking about an attempted rape is going to be as effective for her as a completed rape even though the evidence for either is exactly the same. She would also have to decide that her story is more credible if she also names Kavanaugh’s friend so this turns from a “he said-she-said” story into one where multiple people have reason to attack her credibility and where her liability for defamation is doubled. This seems like a bad strategy move. > > Then, in a nefarious turn, she would have to go back in time six years and tell this fabricated story to her therapist and her husband. > > Somewhere along there, I can’t help but believe her story is true and partisan opponents are just willfully disregarding where the weight of the evidence has gone. > > My hunch is that the core of her story will be corroborated by additional evidence over time or that additional accusers will come forward. Some of the evidence will be circumstantial. My hunch is Kavanaugh’s denial won’t get any more convincing. [Here’s an article](https://news.grabien.com/story-somethings-wrong-her-christine-fords-students-savage-her-rev) linked to by Drudge, and based on the comments is likely from a right-wing site, but according to the article she’s highly unpopular with her students. Not only a bad teacher (“something is wrong with her”), but is also vindictive and someone you don’t want to get on the bad side of. She’s also a Democrat of course. Also, and of questionable veracity since these assertions come from the comment section, are claims that she told her therapist four guys were involved in the alleged assault; that the allegation comes from a “repressed memory” during a therapy session; and that it conveniently came out during a time when Romney was ahead of Obama in the polls and Kavanaugh was thought to be a potential SCOTUS nominee should Romney win. At any rate it looks like this woman is going to come in for some pretty heavy scrutiny and she’s far from a slam dunk to kill Kananaugh’s confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1136 "2018-09-17T17:30:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If Kavanaugh was plausibly accused of murdering someone when he was 17, I wonder how many of his supporters would be okay with his being named to the Supreme Court. :rolleyes: If an allegation that he had murdered someone came out of 35 years came out, unless there was a body and DNA evidence which could be linked to him, there would be mass laughter and he’d be getting himself measured for his Supreme Court gown. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1137 "2018-09-17T17:32:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Here’s an article](https://news.grabien.com/story-somethings-wrong-her-christine-fords-students-savage-her-rev) linked to by Drudge, and based on the comments is likely from a right-wing site, but according to the article she’s highly unpopular with her students. Not only a bad teacher (“something is wrong with her”), but is also vindictive and someone you don’t want to get on the bad side of. She’s also a Democrat of course. > [@](#): > > She’s a professor in the Social Work Department at California State University- Fullerton. ??? Are they talking about another person with the same name? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1138 "2018-09-17T17:34:20Z")
[Interesting piece about false rape accusations.](https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/) According to the author, they fall into a handful of distinct categories. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1139 "2018-09-17T17:34:26Z")
nm, chinatown ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1140 "2018-09-17T17:41:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think he was standing in a ditch alongside the road to exaggerate the severity of the flooding. I’m suggesting that he was attempting to deceive his viewers. ETA: It’s not really the topic of this thread though, so let’s drop the subject for purposes of this thread at least. Like if I stand in the deep end of a swimming pool, and my kid stands at the shallow end, I am exaggerating the danger of drowning to children. Makes perfect sense. I mean, what crystal clear logic right there. And if you don’t want to talk about your silly, off-topic jabs, why not restrain yourself in the first place? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=56) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=58)