# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1141 "2018-09-17T17:45:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Could you provide some specifics? A cite maybe? What particular question would you like me to answer for you? My objection to Kavanaugh is that he founded his rise to power on being a partisan political operative for the Republican Party. He is unquestionably loyal, which might be a virtue in other circumstances. There’s his work for the Pickering nomination, his work with Ken Starr and the evolution of his notions of Presidential immunities. His dogged pursuit of the sad demise of Vince Foster. His access to confidential Dem documents. If any or all of these allegations are true, then, (…drum roll…) He Lied to the American People! (Where are my Clutching Pearls?) But the Republicans refused to even consider investigating these questions. Of course, its fair to say they had a very good reason, they didn’t want to. “Fuck you, you can’t make us!” they explained, carefully. Because of their stubborn insistence on brute force, we have this shit show, rather than an intelligent and reasoned fight about evidence, documents, and facts. I would much rather have had an honest fight on those terms. I would rather have lost an honest fight on those terms! I won’t say “Maybe that’s just me” because, best I can tell, it is just me. Sure as tootin’ ain’t you! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1142 "2018-09-17T17:52:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > the evolution of his notions of Presidential immunities. The nomination \*itself \*can be seen as attempted obstruction of justice, as can the Republicans’ obstinate refusal to let documentation of the bulk of his career be exposed for scrutiny. Why, it’s almost as if they’re afraid we’ll learn something about it, isn’t it? He might well serve the interests of Donald Trump, but certainly not the interests of the nation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1143 "2018-09-17T17:55:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The nomination \*itself \*can be seen as attempted obstruction of justice… Pigs can be seen as potential flying creatures, lacking only wings. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1144 "2018-09-17T17:56:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Here’s an article](https://news.grabien.com/story-somethings-wrong-her-christine-fords-students-savage-her-rev) linked to by Drudge, and based on the comments is likely from a right-wing site, but according to the article she’s highly unpopular with her students. Not only a bad teacher (“something is wrong with her”), but is also vindictive and someone you don’t want to get on the bad side of. She’s also a Democrat of course. > > Also, and of questionable veracity since these assertions come from the comment section, are claims that she told her therapist four guys were involved in the alleged assault; that the allegation comes from a “repressed memory” during a therapy session; and that it conveniently came out during a time when Romney was ahead of Obama in the polls and Kavanaugh was thought to be a potential SCOTUS nominee should Romney win. > > At any rate it looks like this woman is going to come in for some pretty heavy scrutiny and she’s far from a slam dunk to kill Kananaugh’s confirmation. LOL. Drudge’s smearing link above has since been revised to indicate that they smeared the _wrong Christine Ford_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1145 "2018-09-17T17:58:19Z")
A very thoughtful rebuttal, **John**. Among your finest work here. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1146 "2018-09-17T17:58:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Pigs can be seen as potential flying creatures, lacking only wings. “The time has come,” the walrus said, “to talk of many things.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1147 "2018-09-17T17:59:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL. Drudge’s smearing link above has since been revised to indicate that they smeared the _wrong Christine Ford_. Also, the most objective judges of professorial character one can find are sophomores who just got C’s. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1148 "2018-09-17T18:00:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Pigs can be seen as potential flying creatures, lacking only wings. They could flap them as furiously as a hummingbird, but they would still have the glide ratio of a bowling ball. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1149 "2018-09-17T18:01:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL. Drudge’s smearing link above has since been revised to indicate that they smeared the _wrong Christine Ford_. That’s what I love about the right wing news media in America: their penchant for accuracy. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1150 "2018-09-17T18:02:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > ??? Are they talking about another person with the same name? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL. Drudge’s smearing link above has since been revised to indicate that they smeared the _wrong Christine Ford_. I love this part: "We regret not going to greater lengths to ensure this was indeed the same Christine Ford. " I noticed the error in about 2 seconds. “Greater lengths” indeed! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1151 "2018-09-17T18:03:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They could flap them as furiously as a hummingbird, but they would still have the glide ratio of a bowling ball. So you’re saying they wouldn’t float like a hummingbird. Might they still sting like a bee? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1152 "2018-09-17T18:04:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Kavanaugh’s categorical denial (“no, I did not do that and I have never done anything like that”) leads him pretty much zero room to back off and say something like “sometimes I drank too much as a student and it’s possible I blacked out and behaved inappropriately” if the evidence becomes overwhelming that Ford is being truthful. > > If Kavanaugh had started from “when I was in high school, I occasionally drank too much and behaved boisterously; I don’t remember every incident of misbehavior, but I very much regret my youthful misbehavior and I would like to sincerely apologize to Dr. Ford and anyone else who witnessed or experience my inebriated misbehavior; I have since changed profoundly – I no longer drink more than 1 or 2 drinks per week, and have sought to ensure my family and those children I interact with have the tools to make better decisions than I did” etc etc., then I would expect he’d have an excellent chance at a successful vote going forward. But he chose categorical denial, which means that if Ford’s story is backed up by others, and/or if anyone else comes forward credibly, then he’s got pretty much zero room to be seen as anything but a dishonest and dishonorable attempted rapist. Uh no. That’s a non-apology apology. Those don’t fly these days, as Kevin Spacey can attest. It does not acknowledge holding her down, or trying to take off her swimming suit, just some unspecific “boisterous youthful misbehaving”. He’d be done, DONE, with this kind of response. If he _didn’t_ do it, categorically denying it was perfectly appropriate. Again, if he\* didn’t\* do it, no further anything will change that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1153 "2018-09-17T18:05:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I love this part: "We regret not going to greater lengths to ensure this was indeed the same Christine Ford. " > > I noticed the error in about 2 seconds. “Greater lengths” indeed! Zero is a length, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1154 "2018-09-17T18:06:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I love this part: "We regret not going to greater lengths to ensure this was indeed the same Christine Ford. " > > I noticed the error in about 2 seconds. “Greater lengths” indeed! Yeah, the extent of their IDing was probably “Christine Ford, college professor, California - yep, gotta be her.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1155 "2018-09-17T18:09:08Z")
The car in Stephen Kings _Christine_? That was a Ford, right? _dunt-dunt-DUN!_ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1156 "2018-09-17T18:10:04Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So you’re saying they wouldn’t float like a hummingbird. Might they still sting like a bee? 😃 Well, there are those pointy tails, so you never know! > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, the extent of their IDing was probably “Christine Ford, college professor, California - yep, gotta be her.” Palo Alto… Fullerton… what’s the difference. Same state, how far apart could they be? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1157 "2018-09-17T18:12:41Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So you’re saying they wouldn’t float like a hummingbird. Might they still sting like a bee? 😃 No, but they’ll \*stink \*like a sumbitch! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1158 "2018-09-17T18:14:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But it’s 35 years later. No amount of inconsistencies are going to prove or disprove the story (especially disprove it, since there’s also the “trauma” trump card to explain it all away). > > Certainly she’ll have a chance to tell her story if she wants to. I just don’t see that anything meaningful can possibly come out of it. I agree fully with this. If a person makes an allegation of sexual assault and tells a consistent story, it shows how forcefully those horrible acts were pressed into her memory. If she tells an inconsistent story, it shows how the trauma of the event did not allow her to recall things accurately. But I agree with you. We have a story from 1982 with only one witness who denies the accuser’s story, but never mind that, she said it, so she gets her fifteen minutes of fame, with no possibility of being proven a liar or with Kavanaugh having no possibility of clearing his name. She had from 1982 until 2018 to come forward with this story. She waits until the eve of a confirmation vote for the United States Supreme Court. That is not fundamental fairness in any way and although we should be sympathetic to accusers, we should also be sympathetic to the accused as well. If you have something to say, don’t wait 36 years. As nobody can ever have any idea if this story is true, I agree with you that it is a waste of time to hear the stories: there can never be a definite finding. If this is enough for someone to change their vote from “for” to “against” Kavanaugh, then we have a blueprint for derailing any nominee in the future. ANY nominee. We also have created a format for any whackjob (again, I don’t know if Ford qualifies, but we have created the format) for any desperate person looking for his or her fifteen minutes to get it. Fundamental fairness requires more. Let the plaintive wails of how I don’t understand sexual assault begin in 3…2…1 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1159 "2018-09-17T18:16:42Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I agree fully with this. If a person makes an allegation of sexual assault and tells a consistent story, it shows how forcefully those horrible acts were pressed into her memory. If she tells an inconsistent story, it shows how the trauma of the event did not allow her to recall things accurately. > > But I agree with you. We have a story from 1982 with only one witness who denies the accuser’s story, but never mind that, she said it, so she gets her fifteen minutes of fame, with no possibility of being proven a liar or with Kavanaugh having no possibility of clearing his name. > > She had from 1982 until 2018 to come forward with this story. She waits until the eve of a confirmation vote for the United States Supreme Court. That is not fundamental fairness in any way and although we should be sympathetic to accusers, we should also be sympathetic to the accused as well. If you have something to say, don’t wait 36 years. > > As nobody can ever have any idea if this story is true, I agree with you that it is a waste of time to hear the stories: there can never be a definite finding. If this is enough for someone to change their vote from “for” to “against” Kavanaugh, then we have a blueprint for derailing any nominee in the future. ANY nominee. We also have created a format for any whackjob (again, I don’t know if Ford qualifies, but we have created the format) for any desperate person looking for his or her fifteen minutes to get it. > > Fundamental fairness requires more. Let the plaintive wails of how I don’t understand sexual assault to being in 3…2…1 This just seems like an awfully flimsy and weird justification for literally doing nothing about a credible allegation, even an old one. Why not investigate it? Maybe they could find something out. Maybe Kavanaugh will have an explanation, or change his story, or a million other possibilities. Maybe other accusers will come forward. Why is it so terrible to just take some time and investigate a credible allegation before we seat a possible attempted rapist on the SCOTUS? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1160 "2018-09-17T18:17:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We’ll see. If what comes out of it is a change to the support of Kavanugh, then that will be very “meaningful”. I meant “meaningful” in terms of establishing the veracity of the charge. It’s certainly possible that it will be highly effective as PR and will derail the nomination. Not likely, but certainly possible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=59)