# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1201 "2018-09-17T19:57:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I thought somebody other than Ford sent it to her Rep, who gave it to Feinstein, who discussed with her staff and concluded that it couldn’t be acted on. Then nothing else was sticking to Kavanaugh, so Feinstein announced it publicly and referred it to the FBI, who responded that they couldn’t do anything with it because it was thirtyfive years old. Even if the allegations are absolutely true, why would the FBI do anything? Since when does the FBI investigate teenagers for non-penetrative sex crimes? Especially from 1982. It’s not that slow down at the Bureau. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1202 "2018-09-17T19:57:50Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > If Ford cannot name the exact year or place that the alleged assault occurred, would it it even be _possible_ for Kavanaugh to have an alibi? What _possible_ way could he disprove these allegations other than denying it? This isn’t a trial. It’s a job interview. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1203 "2018-09-17T19:58:48Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Even if the allegations are absolutely true, why would the FBI do anything? Since when does the FBI investigate teenagers for non-penetrative sex crimes? Especially from 1982. It’s not that slow down at the Bureau. You should find it troubling that you don’t know the answer to this obvious question. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1204 "2018-09-17T19:59:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So, had she come forward in 2005 prior to Kavanaugh’s appointment to the D.C. Circuit, you would have said that her allegation was not credible? It would have been less credible due to less corroborating evidence – “credible” vs “not credible” is in the eye of the beholder. I would have still supported it being fully investigated by the committee in charge. > [@](#): > > You make much of the fact that she went to school in the area, but she cannot show that her and Kavanaugh were in the same house (much like how I cannot show that we were at the same conference). So the Senate should investigate. Look for other witnesses/party attendees. Ask the accuser and alleged assaulters questions. And much more. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1205 "2018-09-17T20:00:06Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So, had she come forward in 2005 prior to Kavanaugh’s appointment to the D.C. Circuit, you would have said that her allegation was not credible? The point is that her accusation was documented when Kavanaugh was a relative nobody. If she’d only made an accusation once he became a household name, I’d join you in being skeptical, because that does seem opportunistic. If she were currently making an accusation against a random judge, it wouldn’t be national news and I’d still be inclined to believe her. That’s essentially what she did with her therapist. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1206 "2018-09-17T20:00:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “200 alumnae from classes 1967 through 2018”. Some of them weren’t even born at the time of the alleged incident. That’s nice dear. From the [letter](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1LjgTFYvVjuza_z4lEZjk0Eu_-BPcxlF3-7EH25r1pzs/viewform?edit_requested=true): “We believe Dr. Blasey Ford and are grateful that she came forward to tell her story. It demands a thorough and independent investigation before the Senate can reasonably vote on Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination to a lifetime seat on the nation’s highest court.” Yes, but all are expressing their desire that they believe this should be investigated. You do not think it should, and are expressing that here. I assume you don’t have a problem with them doing this, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1207 "2018-09-17T20:01:34Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > [It’s roughly correct](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/california-professor-writer-of-confidential-brett-kavanaugh-letter-speaks-out-about-her-allegation-of-sexual-assault/2018/09/16/46982194-b846-11e8-94eb-3bd52dfe917b_story.html?utm_term=.198c9b26ad32), although I may not be clear on the timeline of the WH’s involvement. And she did apparently go to the press, but refused to go on the record. The part I was quibbling with was where you wrote “… _Feinstein, who gave it to the WH, who [did the right thing] and included it in the nomination package, where other senate Democrats got hold of it_ …”. AFAICT, none of this is correct. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So would you disagree with the assertion that it’s not reasonable to value partisan political concerns over getting to the bottom of a credible allegation of attempted rape prior to seating someone on SCOTUS? I’m not sure the term “partisan” is correct here in that it has the connotation of “electing more Republicans”, versus making sure that the right type of SC Justice is confirmed. (You could of make the argument that electing more Republicans (or Democrats) is also a valid concern - and it is - but it’s not the role of Senators acting in an official capacity, while involvement in the SC confirmation process is.) But that aside, it goes back to the question of how much light would be shed by the “investigation”. My point has been that it’s extremely unlikely that much if any will be shed. You’ve said there’s a “non-zero” chance that some would be. But a non-zero chance doesn’t stack up as high against other considerations as a legitimate chance would. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If this is a frame job, Ford is playing a seriously long game. She told her husband and therapist about this years ago, well preceding any thought that this guy would be nominated for the SC. She didn’t go right to TMZ with it, she sent a quiet letter to a Rep, requesting anonymity, and didn’t demand promotion of the incident. None of this is correct, from what I’ve seen. Reporting I’ve seen is that when she first mentioned it to her therapist she expressed concern that Kavanagh might get onto the SC. And while she didn’t go to TMZ with it, she sent it to her rep with the specific intention that it influence the confirmation process. That aside, most of the “frame job” commentary I’ve seen has been about the Democrats using a shaky accusation to frame Kavanagh, not about the accuser herself having this motivation. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1208 "2018-09-17T20:03:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It would have been less credible due to less corroborating evidence – “credible” vs “not credible” is in the eye of the beholder. I would have still supported it being fully investigated by the committee in charge. > > So the Senate should investigate. Look for other witnesses/party attendees. Ask the accuser and alleged assaulters questions. And much more. So should the Senate investigate my hypothetical allegation? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1209 "2018-09-17T20:05:29Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So should the Senate investigate my hypothetical allegation? If you can show that you attended that conference (plane tickets, hotel reservation receipts, attendance lists, photographs), and Kavanaugh did as well, then absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1210 "2018-09-17T20:08:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I thought somebody other than Ford sent it to her Rep, who gave it to Feinstein, who discussed with her staff and concluded that it couldn’t be acted on. That’s what the media was reporting early on, but it seems it was incorrect. Here’s a link to the [text of the letter to Feinstein](https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/16/politics/blasey-ford-kavanaugh-letter-feinstein/index.html), in which she references having herself previously contacted her local rep. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1211 "2018-09-17T20:09:33Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > If only someone in this thread had posted a cite explaining how the accusation was made public… (scroll up) Yes, I saw that. I don’t think we are in disagreement. But I thought it was originally claimed (by Feinstein?) that the writer of the letter was not the subject of the letter. Have we now found out that Ford wrote the letter herself? If that’s true, I don’t know that it helps her credibility or not - probably not. > [@UltraVires](#): > > So, had she come forward in 2005 prior to Kavanaugh’s appointment to the D.C. Circuit, you would have said that her allegation was not credible? Apparently the incident was bad enough to disqualify Kavanaugh from the Supreme Court, but not bad enough to disqualify him from being a federal appeals court judge. Hm. > [@Ashtura](#): > > If Ford cannot name the exact year or place that the alleged assault occurred, would it it even be possible for Kavanaugh to have an alibi? That’s true. “Do you have an alibi for the period between January 1 1981 and October 31 1983?” is kind of a tricky question to answer. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1212 "2018-09-17T20:09:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you can show that you attended that conference (plane tickets, hotel reservation receipts, attendance lists, photographs), and Kavanaugh did as well, then absolutely. Why do I need to show all of that? She has no proof they were at the same house. Plus, why would I save all of these receipts from 2003? Or maybe it was 2004. I have tried to block it out of my mind. Why are you blaming the victim? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1213 "2018-09-17T20:10:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The part I was quibbling with was where you wrote “… _Feinstein, who gave it to the WH, who [did the right thing] and included it in the nomination package, where other senate Democrats got hold of it_ …”. AFAICT, none of this is correct. You’re right, the FBI gave it to the white house, who passed it to the senate. > [@](#): > > Feinstein soon released a statement: “I have received information from an individual concerning the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court,” she wrote. “That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further, and I have honored that decision. I have, however, referred the matter to federal investigative authorities.” > > The FBI redacted Ford’s name and sent the letter to the White House to be included in Kavanaugh’s background file, according to a Judiciary Committee aide. The White House sent it to the Senate Judiciary Committee, making it available to all senators. It was after Feinstein started dropping hints, but before any details came out. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1214 "2018-09-17T20:11:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That’s what the media was reporting early on, but it seems it was incorrect. Here’s a link to the [text of the letter to Feinstein](https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/16/politics/blasey-ford-kavanaugh-letter-feinstein/index.html), in which she references having herself previously contacted her local rep. Thanks. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1215 "2018-09-17T20:12:25Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why do I need to show all of that? She has no proof they were at the same house. > > Plus, why would I save all of these receipts from 2003? Or maybe it was 2004. I have tried to block it out of my mind. Why are you blaming the victim? We know they both went to school in the same area at the same time, and no one is denying that. An analogous scenario would be Kavanaugh admits he was at the conference (or a nearby event) at the time in question, and no one denies you were there (or nearby) at around the same time as well. EDIT: If all you’re interested in is silliness, carry on on your own, but the hypothetical you brought up was interesting and has been answered reasonably. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1216 "2018-09-17T20:12:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Hm. That’s true. “Do you have an alibi for the period between January 1 1981 and October 31 1983?” is kind of a tricky question to answer. > > Regards, > Shodan Yet, indictments for sexual assault are brought in my state all of the time with such ridiculous broad date ranges because “time is not an element” of sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1217 "2018-09-17T20:16:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We know they both went to school in the same area at the same time, and no one is denying that. An analogous scenario would be Kavanaugh admits he was at the conference (or a nearby event) at the time in question, and no one denies you were there (or nearby) at around the same time as well. > > EDIT: If all you’re interested in is silliness, carry on on your own, but the hypothetical you brought up was interesting and has been answered reasonably. So only accusers that live nearby their rapist are protected? A rapist can rape with impunity while traveling because the quantum of proof may not be there? Plus, the time frame is not definite, nor is it required to be. If I say it happened in Baltimore, Kavanaugh cannot prove he wasn’t there in a three year period, nor can it be proven that I wasn’t. I thought we took EVERY allegation seriously? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1218 "2018-09-17T20:19:09Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So only accusers that live nearby their rapist are protected? A rapist can rape with impunity while traveling because the quantum of proof may not be there? > > Plus, the time frame is not definite, nor is it required to be. If I say it happened in Baltimore, Kavanaugh cannot prove he wasn’t there in a three year period, nor can it be proven that I wasn’t. > > I thought we took EVERY allegation seriously? No idea what you’re going on about here. I can’t follow at all, and I no longer find this silliness interesting. Thankfully, the Senate is going to investigate this credible allegation. We’ll see in the coming weeks what this investigation reveals. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1219 "2018-09-17T20:20:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No idea what you’re going on about here. I can’t follow at all, and I no longer find this silliness interesting. > > Thankfully, the Senate is going to investigate this credible allegation. We’ll see in the coming weeks what this investigation reveals. In other words, you got nothing. You would dismiss my hypothetical allegation because I have no plane tickets or hotel receipts, but believe that everyone else should be believed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1220 "2018-09-17T20:21:53Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > In other words, you got nothing. > > You would dismiss my hypothetical allegation because I have no plane tickets or hotel receipts, but believe that everyone else should be believed. I never said I’d dismiss anything, nor did I say that everyone (or anyone) should be believed. No idea what you’re talking about, but it’s not about my posts. Thankfully, the Senate is going to investigate this credible allegation, and we’ll see in the coming weeks what the investigation reveals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=62)