# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1221 "2018-09-17T20:23:04Z")
Come on guys, if Mohammad “Bret” Kazan and I were at a party around 2002/2003 and he told me how much he hates America and wants to do some terrorist stuff, and I thought he was being silly until 15 years later when he was going to be in a position to actually cause some harm, everyone should just ignore my accusation because how’s he possibly going to rebut something so vague? I’m sure that’s what the FBI would do, and UV would probably cool with that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1222 "2018-09-17T20:27:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you can show that you attended that conference (plane tickets, hotel reservation receipts, attendance lists, photographs), and Kavanaugh did as well, then absolutely. “What date was the conference on?” “I don’t recall - sometime during the summer of 1983.” “Where was it held?” “I don’t recall - it was in a hotel.” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1223 "2018-09-17T20:29:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > “What date was the conference on?” > > “I don’t recall - sometime during the summer of 1983.” > > “Where was it held?” > > “I don’t recall - it was in a hotel.” > > Regards, > Shodan Thankfully, the Senate will be conducting an investigation into these credible allegations, and we’ll find out in the next few weeks (or maybe longer) what they find out. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1224 "2018-09-17T20:33:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > “What date was the conference on?” > > “I don’t recall - sometime during the summer of 1983.” > > “Where was it held?” > > “I don’t recall - it was in a hotel.” > > Regards, > Shodan Again, this is ridiculous. If you tell me, credibly, that you were in a situation in the early eighties where you’d plausibly have been around Kavanaugh, and you tell me, credibly, the names of some of his buddies (who have contemporaneous admissions of heavy drinking and of a desire to commit violence against folks like you), and you tell me that at some conference you were assaulted by him, and you show me therapy records that are consistent with the story, then your story isn’t an open-and-shut case, but it certainly warrants further investigation. Not knowing the address at which it happened, or not knowing the date on which it happened, is consistent with remembering the important details of a decades-old assault. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1225 "2018-09-17T20:36:14Z")
Interesting, if confusing, wrinkle: The Kav denies being at “the party”. Is this the same party which Ms Ford does not remember the date and place? If she did not specify, how can he know which party he wasn’t at? (This might prove to be just a hiccup in the news spasm…) **Kavanaugh Furiously Lobbies Senators, Denies He Was At Party In Question** > **[Kavanaugh Furiously Lobbies Senators, Denies He Was At Party In Question](https://crooksandliars.com/2018/09/kavanaughs-defense-he-wasnt-specific-party)** > > Orrin Hatch makes a cameo appearance in today's drama, too. (Link included for propriety’s sake, it is likely crawling with liberal cooties. Festooned, even…) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1226 "2018-09-17T20:43:34Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Come on guys, if Mohammad “Bret” Kazan and I were at a party around 2002/2003 and he told me how much he hates America and wants to do some terrorist stuff, and I thought he was being silly until 15 years later when he was going to be in a position to actually cause some harm, everyone should just ignore my accusation because how’s he possibly going to rebut something so vague? What has Kazan done in the 15 years since then? Has he led a respectable and accomplished life in the public eye? Or is he hanging around extremist circles? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1227 "2018-09-17T20:49:24Z")
From the collected papers of Judge Kavanaugh: 2001 email: Great work, ----, and thanks for hooking everything your weak crew. Check will be in the mail once I get your new address. Excellent time. Apologies to all for missing Friday (good excuse), arriving late Saturday (weak excuse), and growing aggressive after blowing still another game of dice (dont recall). Reminders to everyone to be very, very vigilant w/r/t confidentiality on all issues and all fronts, including with spouses. * * * 2014 speech to Yale’s Federalist chapter: True story. On the bus, he actually had his book out and was reading his notes while people were doing group chugs from a keg. He got a P. I think the people doing the group chugs got H’s. Fortunately for all of us, we had a motto, what happens on the bus stays on the bus. Tonight, you can modify that to what happens at the Fed Soc after-party stays at the Fed Soc after-party. [https://twitter.com/7im/status/1041772063705321472](https://twitter.com/7im/status/1041772063705321472) > **[Read and Share Twitter Threads easily!](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1041772063705321472.html)** > > Thread Reader helps you read and share the best of Twitter Threads ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1228 "2018-09-17T20:49:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Interesting, if confusing, wrinkle: The Kav denies being at “the party”. Is this the same party which Ms Ford does not remember the date and place? If she did not specify, how can he know which party he wasn’t at? (This might prove to be just a hiccup in the news spasm…) > **Kavanaugh Furiously Lobbies Senators, Denies He Was At Party In Question** > [Kavanaugh Furiously Lobbies Senators, Denies He Was At Party In Question | Crooks and Liars](https://crooksandliars.com/2018/09/kavanaughs-defense-he-wasnt-specific-party) > > (Link included for propriety’s sake, it is likely crawling with liberal cooties. Festooned, even…) Without knowing exactly what he said, it’s hard to criticize it. Maybe he said: I was never at a party which matches the description she has given. I don’t recall ever interacting with her at any party. If he was smart, he would use “I don’t recall” rather than “I was not”. I certainly can’t recall every party I was at in high school. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1229 "2018-09-17T20:51:25Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What has Kazan done in the 15 years since then? Has he led a respectable and accomplished life in the public eye? Or is he hanging around extremist circles? You mean has he been concealing his true intentions from his masters as he works his way into a position of power, only to reveal the true extend of his long con as he brings down the government from the inside? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1230 "2018-09-17T20:52:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As I understand it, there’s plenty of evidence to make it credible – for example: > > Ford lived in the area and went to school in the area at the time in question; > One of the alleged attempted rapists (Judge) has written a memoir in which he tells stories about his own and his friend Kavanaugh’s drunken misbehavior in high school (no attempted rapes are mentioned, of course); > Ford told her therapist and husband about the assault several years ago. > > Further, nothing has come to light that would cast an negative light on Ford’s honesty – no criminal record, no history of dishonesty, etc. > > With all that in mind, it seems entirely reasonable to call her allegations credible. Your definition of reasonable and credible are a universe apart from mine. So much so that use of the words are meaningless. If the therapist’s notes were consistent with her allegation, then I’d say that’s pretty damn convincing. My understanding is that the therapist’s notes are different than her story, and while she claims she named him, there’s no evidence of that. So when you say she told her therapist, that could be true. But there’s no evidence to suggest that it is. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1231 "2018-09-17T20:55:25Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If the therapist’s notes were consistent with her allegation, then I’d say that’s pretty damn convincing. My understanding is that the therapist’s notes are different than her story, and while she claims she named him, there’s no evidence of that. So when you say she told her therapist, that could be true. But there’s no evidence to suggest that it is. This is why the FBI needs to investigate the matter. They could interview the therapist and discuss the notes. They are pros not only in criminal investigation, but also background checks. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1232 "2018-09-17T20:56:38Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > This is why the FBI needs to investigate the matter. They could interview the therapist and discuss the notes. They are pros not only in criminal investigation, but also background checks. I should have said, it’s pretty convincing she believes her story to be true, not necessarily that the story is true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1233 "2018-09-17T20:57:28Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Your definition of reasonable and credible are a universe apart from mine. So much so that use of the words are meaningless. > > If the therapist’s notes were consistent with her allegation, then I’d say that’s pretty damn convincing. My understanding is that the therapist’s notes are different than her story, and while she claims she named him, there’s no evidence of that. So when you say she told her therapist, that could be true. But there’s no evidence to suggest that it is. My understanding is that the notes are only slightly different, but that will probably come out in the coming investigation. Words like “credible” are in the eye of the beholder, quite obviously. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1234 "2018-09-17T20:59:00Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If the therapist’s notes were consistent with her allegation, then I’d say that’s pretty damn convincing. My understanding is that the therapist’s notes are different than her story, and while she claims she named him, there’s no evidence of that. So when you say she told her therapist, that could be true. But there’s no evidence to suggest that it is. Do you have something that contradicts this basic info? > [@](#): > > Ford said she told no one of the incident in any detail until 2012, when she was in couples therapy with her husband. The therapist’s notes, portions of which were provided by Ford and reviewed by The Washington Post, do not mention Kavanaugh’s name but say she reported that she was attacked by students “from an elitist boys’ school” who went on to become “highly respected and high-ranking members of society in Washington.” The notes say four boys were involved, a discrepancy Ford says was an error on the therapist’s part. Ford said there were four boys at the party but only two in the room. > > Notes from an individual therapy session the following year, when she was being treated for what she says have been long-term effects of the incident, show Ford described a “rape attempt” in her late teens. > > In an interview, her husband, Russell Ford, said that in the 2012 sessions, she recounted being trapped in a room with two drunken boys, one of whom pinned her to a bed, molested her and prevented her from screaming. He said he recalled that his wife used Kavanaugh’s last name and voiced concern that Kavanaugh — then a federal judge — might one day be nominated to the Supreme Court. Only a minor discrepancy, which she addresses in a way that makes sense, and yes the notes don’t include his name, but honestly, what’s the alternative? She was assaulted by some other prep school kid and thought, “Ah ha, I can use these notes to accuse anyone now!” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1235 "2018-09-17T20:59:15Z")
> [@andros](#): > > “Christine was in fact a Plymouth Fury. We regret the slight inaccuracy, but all those shrill liberal cars kinda look alike, don’t they?” Brett art has done this before, by the way. > **[Breitbart gets the wrong Loretta Lynch in Whitewater claim](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/nov/10/breitbart/breitbart-gets-wrong-loretta-lynch-whitewater-clai/)** > > President Barack Obama made some political news over the weekend, nominating federal prosecutor Loretta Lynch to replace ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1236 "2018-09-17T21:02:41Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I should have said, it’s pretty convincing she believes her story to be true, not necessarily that the story is true. To be honest, I don’t even go that far. I don’t like making calls within 48 hours of a story breaking. I like suspending judgment. That aside: yup. But I can imagine constructing a friendly even money wager in her favor at this point, with regards to whether _something_ happened. I will _also_ say that the allegations are sufficiently credible to warrant careful investigation by professionals. > [@steronz](#): > > Do you have something that contradicts this basic info? I like waiting a couple of days to see if _other_ information emerges, as a general rule. I doubt whether this practice will be vindicated in the this instance though. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1237 "2018-09-17T21:03:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again, this is ridiculous. If you tell me, credibly, that you were in a situation in the early eighties where you’d plausibly have been around Kavanaugh, and you tell me, credibly, the names of some of his buddies (who have contemporaneous admissions of heavy drinking and of a desire to commit violence against folks like you), and you tell me that at some conference you were assaulted by him, and you show me therapy records that are consistent with the story, then your story isn’t an open-and-shut case, but it certainly warrants further investigation. > > Not knowing the address at which it happened, or not knowing the date on which it happened, is consistent with remembering the important details of a decades-old assault. So maybe you will answer the question: If I tell the story, but I don’t have the names of his buddies because I allege that we were alone, do we toss my allegations in the dumpster, or do I get to be in front of the Judiciary Committee? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1238 "2018-09-17T21:09:15Z")
Unfortunately I don’t think they will be able to stop Kavanaugh, even despite these recent allegations. They are allegations. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they are in fact true, but there is simply no way to know. There is no proof; there is no legal process surrounding it; it is indeed the proverbial “he said - she said” thing. Kavanaugh knows this. He knows there’s no way of proving it and that anything more that comes out about it is still just going to be, in legal terms, hearsay. So he is going to simply dig in and deny. This strategy is more likely to succeed than to issue any kind of apology or give any credence to the idea that it may have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1239 "2018-09-17T21:11:49Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > In other words, you got nothing. > [@UltraVires](#): > > What if I said (and mods, I am not really making this allegation) that I met Kavanaugh at a legal conference some years ago, maybe in 2003, let’s say, and that he invited me back to his room and attempted to force homosexual intercourse on me? Let’s say I said that tomorrow. Should the committee investigate? Should the vote be delayed? Do I get to be on national TV? …we can readily dismiss your accusation as not credible because we have you on record as admitting that you made it up. If you have any evidence that Ford has admitted making up her claim then I will happily dismiss her claim as not credible, just as I’ve dismissed your claim because you concede your claim is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1240 "2018-09-17T21:12:23Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Brett art has done this before, by the way. > > [PolitiFact | Breitbart gets the wrong Loretta Lynch in Whitewater claim](https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/nov/10/breitbart/breitbart-gets-wrong-loretta-lynch-whitewater-clai/) Dammit autocorrect. That was supposed to be Breitbart. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=63)