# Can Democrats actually stop the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 4, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733 "2018-09-04T12:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1501 "2018-09-18T22:53:27Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > …If they try to push this through without Ford, the mid-term blow back will be horrific. What, you kidding? Women all over America are swooning with rapture over stern, strong Republican men asserting their manly dominance! Hey, they _love_ that shit, _Fifty Shades of Gruesome_… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1502 "2018-09-18T22:53:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And what if she doesn’t want to speak? Should the Senate delay the nomination indefinitely, hoping that she changes her mind one day? Should Kavanaugh be denied the position because a woman made an unverified allegation and then refused to support it? Or if she refuses to testify before the committee would you find it acceptable for the Senate to proceed with consideration of the nomination? They should conduct a full investigation by professionals (the FBI), including private interviews of Ford, Kavanaugh, Judge, their peers at the time, and any other witnesses, and report their findings to the Senate committee. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1503 "2018-09-18T22:54:34Z")
they should just delay it as much as they did in 2016, that’s only fair . ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1504 "2018-09-18T22:55:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They should conduct a full investigation by professionals (the FBI), including private interviews of Ford, Kavanaugh, Judge, their peers at the time, and any other witnesses, and report their findings to the Senate committee. And back here in reality the FBI has said they’re not going to do that. So what should happen next, in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1505 "2018-09-18T22:56:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And back here in reality the FBI has said they’re not going to do that. So what should happen next, in your opinion? The President, AG, head of the FBI, or some other high official in the FBI’s chain of command should order them to do so, and/or the Senate committee should make a formal request that they do so. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1506 "2018-09-18T22:57:12Z")
[“What happens at Georgetown Prep, stays at Georgetown Prep. That’s been a good thing for all of us”](https://twitter.com/LevineJonathan/status/1042133456740909057) That is going to make some sweet campaign ads. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1507 "2018-09-18T22:59:18Z")
What could possibly go wrong with rushing the vetting process, and rushing confirmation of a SCOTUS judge? Oh yeah - this. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1508 "2018-09-18T23:00:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This gives me a glimmer of hope that the Senators understand the games being played here. I don’t think they do. You think Schumer will be satisfied? The positive thing is that we don’t have to hear Booker or Harris yap on ad infinitum. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Do the rules allow that? She’s not on the Senate Judiciary Committee. She’s not even a Senator anymore. I think the idea is that she would be counsel for the Judiciary Committee. She is an attorney. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s not about “decency”, but I also hope she agrees to testify. That’s entirely up to her. Reliving such trauma, especially in public in a very hostile environment, is far more difficult than anything I ever experienced (and I’ve spent over a year under water!), and I’m not inclined to judge her for making whatever decision she deems wisest for her circumstances unless strong evidence of malice comes to light. See, you’ve prejudged the case by assuming that there is “trauma” at all. That’s what a fair process tries to decide in the first instance. If we construct a process by assuming that she has suffered trauma, then the process is flawed because we assume the very question that we are supposed to be deciding. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1509 "2018-09-18T23:01:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The President, AG, head of the FBI, or some other high official in the FBI’s chain of command should order them to do so, and/or the Senate committee should make a formal request that they do so. Ordering an agency like the FBI to conduct an investigation it does not want to conduct is ludicrous. I trust them to know what they are capable of and not capable of. Order then to conduct the investigation and expect to get a report full or “we were unable to verify…” and “we cannot rule out…” and “we were unable to determine…” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1510 "2018-09-18T23:02:01Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > See, you’ve prejudged the case by assuming that there is “trauma” at all. That’s what a fair process tries to decide in the first instance. If we construct a process by assuming that she has suffered trauma, then the process is flawed because we assume the very question that we are supposed to be deciding. I’m being careful, as should you and the Senate. If you’re wrong, a traumatized woman will be re-traumatized. If I’m wrong, nothing bad happens except a delay in a political process. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1511 "2018-09-18T23:02:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it will look very bad for Ford if she refuses to testify. Her lawyer went on national television yesterday and said Ford would do whatever it took to have her story told, including testify in front of the Committee. But even without that statement out there, she is going to look like she is unwilling to take questions about her accusation. That’s not good. There’s a difference between negotiating around terms for the testimony (how many hours, corroborating evidence or witnesses allowed, and so on), which may well not be possible to finish by Monday, and refusing altogether. I do not believe that she will refuse altogether. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1512 "2018-09-18T23:03:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Ordering an agency like the FBI to conduct an investigation it does not want to conduct is ludicrous. I trust them to know what they are capable of and not capable of. Order then to conduct the investigation and expect to get a report full or “we were unable to verify…” and “we cannot rule out…” and “we were unable to determine…” The Senate committee could certainly make that request, and I’ve seen no indication that they have or plan to. And I’m not sure that the AG or head of the FBI never gives orders to the FBI on what to investigate. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1513 "2018-09-18T23:03:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m being careful, as should you and the Senate. If you’re wrong, a traumatized woman will be re-traumatized. If I’m wrong, nothing bad happens except a delay in a political process. Without judging her testimony or experiences with Kavanaugh in the slightest, I think the death threats can be judged to have traumatized her. I’m certain the entire experience has been just “awesome”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1514 "2018-09-18T23:05:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m being careful, as should you and the Senate. If you’re wrong, a traumatized woman will be re-traumatized. If I’m wrong, nothing bad happens except a delay in a political process. Well, that and Brett Kavanaugh’s life gets turned upside down and his reputation is in tatters over a charge he does not have a proper opportunity to refute. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1515 "2018-09-18T23:06:54Z")
This thing about the Dems having “already made up their minds”. Well, of course, nobody expected anything different. Ask the Heritage Foundation and the Federalists to make a list that explicitly says “Fuck you, libtards!” and you give them shit for not having an open mind? If B’nai B’rith put up a candidate for Pope, the College of Cardinals would most likely be of one mind, even before they heard what a wonderful guy he is! Because, reasons. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1516 "2018-09-18T23:07:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, that and Brett Kavanaugh’s life gets turned upside down and his reputation is in tatters over a charge he does not have a proper opportunity to refute. Doing nothing doesn’t help Kavanaugh’s reputation at all, unless an investigation would harm it. An investigation might clear his name. Doing nothing does not. If Kavanaugh’s not lying, then he should welcome an investigation. Right now there’s an uninvestigated allegation of attempted rape. Everyone who wants the truth revealed should welcome an investigation. Only those who have reason to fear the truth would fear an investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1517 "2018-09-18T23:07:31Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > She implicated Mark Judge. Mark Judge is not an innocent bystander who happened to be there. For those who want to believe this accusation is false and was invented to derail Kavanaugh’s confirmation: note the (hypothetical) extreme foolishness of putting the alleged perpetrator’s close friend right there in the room, at the scene of the crime. Much smarter, if you’re going to make something up, to claim it was just you and the alleged perpetrator. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1518 "2018-09-18T23:08:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And back here in reality the FBI has said they’re not going to do that. So what should happen next, in your opinion? They should at least try to do an investigation. The Senate does have subpoena powers, they can compel witnesses to testify. Let’s put it this way. Let’s imagine for a minute that Kavanaugh is innocent. Don’t you think that if you investigate the crazy lying bitch that’s trying to destroy his reputation that you have a good chance of turning up some inconsistencies, or some exculpatory evidence? Like maybe she told someone how she was going to make up the story? If we’re living in a universe where Kavanaugh is innocent, it’s possible that an investigation will turn up nothing, because this was 30 years ago and all we have is he-said she-said. It’s also possible that it will turn up something that will discredit the accuser. So, maybe investigate a bit? Because maybe something obvious will turn up to reveal that the whole story is a fabrication? Crazy lying bitches might make stuff up, but since they’re crazy lying bitches rather than criminal masterminds sometimes they make mistakes. So maybe she made a mistake in the process of cooking up this false accusation, and we can clear Kavanaugh’s name, at least enough that Republicans and a few red-state Democrats will vote for him, like what was going to happen last week before all this became public. Or maybe the investigation will turn up nothing, or it will turn up incriminating evidence against Kavanaugh. It seems to me that if Kavanaugh is innocent then there’s at least a chance that the investigation will turn up exculpatory evidence. Which you guys, again, at the risk of sounding concern-trolly, are supposed to want? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1519 "2018-09-18T23:10:42Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > There’s a difference between negotiating around terms for the testimony (how many hours, corroborating evidence or witnesses allowed, and so on), which may well not be possible to finish by Monday, and refusing altogether. I do not believe that she will refuse altogether. Oh, OK. I read your post as implying you thought she might not want to. But the idea that she would, or even should, get to negotiate with the Senate Judiciary Committee about her testimony is, IMO, rather presumptuous. Her attorney said she was willing to “do whatever it takes”. I guess it never hurts to try, but I’m not at all surprised that Grassley is not willing to negotiate. > [@Sherred](#): > > For those who want to believe this accusation is false and was invented to derail Kavanaugh’s confirmation: note the (hypothetical) extreme foolishness of putting the alleged perpetrator’s close friend right there in the room, at the scene of the crime. What makes you think the two boys were close friends or are even in contact with each other any more now? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733/1520 "2018-09-18T23:14:42Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > They should at least try to do an investigation. The Senate does have subpoena powers, they can compel witnesses to testify. > > Let’s put it this way. Let’s imagine for a minute that Kavanaugh is innocent. Don’t you think that if you investigate the crazy lying bitch that’s trying to destroy his reputation that you have a good chance of turning up some inconsistencies, or some exculpatory evidence? Like maybe she told someone how she was going to make up the story? > > If we’re living in a universe where Kavanaugh is innocent, it’s possible that an investigation will turn up nothing, because this was 30 years ago and all we have is he-said she-said. It’s also possible that it will turn up something that will discredit the accuser. So, maybe investigate a bit? Because maybe something obvious will turn up to reveal that the whole story is a fabrication? Crazy lying bitches might make stuff up, but since they’re crazy lying bitches rather than criminal masterminds sometimes they make mistakes. So maybe she made a mistake in the process of cooking up this false accusation, and we can clear Kavanaugh’s name, at least enough that Republicans and a few red-state Democrats will vote for him, like what was going to happen last week before all this became public. > > Or maybe the investigation will turn up nothing, or it will turn up incriminating evidence against Kavanaugh. It seems to me that if Kavanaugh is innocent then there’s at least a chance that the investigation will turn up exculpatory evidence. Which you guys, again, at the risk of sounding concern-trolly, are supposed to want? So, subpoena Ford and have the committee cross-examine her until she trips up? That’s _exactly_ the sort of optics the Dems are hoping for. “Look at the mean old white Republican men, beating up on that poor defenseless woman”. The odds of anything more exculpatory than Kavanaugh and Judge’s denials coming out of that approach seem slim. The probability of horrible-looking-optics-that-benefit-the-Dems-in-the-midterm seem a near-certainty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-democrats-actually-stop-the-nomination-of-brett-kavanaugh/820733.md?page=77)